End of garden agreement

[dor]

I'm fairly sure I read something recently that said CRT were prepared to ease some of their requirements for EOG moorings, but not for 'Farmers Field' commercial moorings.

 

Following on from their decision to drop the '10 for 1' removal of online moorings for marina ones.

Edited June 18, 2019 by dor

[Tacet]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Which raises another point I've not seen discussed on here. 

 

BW/CRT are prone to allowing erosion of the offside bank. Once their ransom strip is under water and the canal is encroaching into YOUR land, some photographs to prove where the boundary lies might be useful or CRT might just claim the 1m ransom strip moves back with the water's edge.....

 

 

 

Doesn't usually apply to a canal, but if a river shifts by accretion, the legal boundary travels with it.

[WotEver]

Deleted because already answered. 

Edited June 20, 2019 by WotEver

[mrsmelly]

On 18/06/2019 at 13:06, dor said:

I'm fairly sure I read something recently that said CRT were prepared to ease some of their requirements for EOG moorings, but not for 'Farmers Field' commercial moorings.

 

Following on from their decision to drop the '10 for 1' removal of online moorings for marina ones.

This is good news. On line moorings are moocho nicer than marina moorings innitt.

[Mad Harold]

When I bought my boat it was moored on an end of garden moorning.It was an inaccesible,muddy,with no services strip, which needed a four wheel drive to take any stuff to the boat.To make it worse,the canal was lower than the land,and in wet weather you slithered down the embankment and if your boat didn't stop your descent,you were in the cut!

The landowner charged £100 per month and the CRT water rent was £700 per annum.Hardly a bargain, because where I am now the mooring fee is £84 per month,and there are showers,Elsan facilities,pump out,diesel,coal,chandlery and engineering on site.A much better place.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

To make it worse,the canal was lower than the land

I thought that was normal, otherwise you'd have a big lake.

[MtB]

17 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

because where I am now the mooring fee is £84 per month,and there are showers,Elsan facilities,pump out,diesel,coal,chandlery and engineering on site.A much better place.

 

Which part of the UK it this please? 

 

Moorings like this in the south or Midlands seem to be £300+ a month unless you have a 25ft boat. 

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Which part of the UK it this please? 

 

Moorings like this in the south or Midlands seem to be £300+ a month unless you have a 25ft boat. 

His profile says Huddersfield.

 

And Popsie is about 30' IIRC

[Mad Harold]

17 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

His profile says Huddersfield.

 

And Popsie is about 30' IIRC

That's correct. I am though on the lowest mooring rate because of my boat size and being on the wharf moorings.If you want land line electric,then the mooring is dearer,and in the marina proper,on pontoons and lockable gate,again more expensive.They also charge for car parking, but Aspley Wharf Marina Huddersfield is for me ideal,I only live ten minutes away,is cheap and is on the junction of the Huddersfield Narrow and Broad canals.

One of my favourite days out is up the Narrow a few locks to a nice pub,and back in time for tea. I do get some stick for this as the Narrow is usually only used by boats using the Standedge tunnel. The usual comment is, "what! you go up the Narrow for pleasure?"  and when I answer yes,I get,"you're mad"!

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

when I answer yes,I get,"you're mad"!

Is your name Harold ?

[Mad Harold]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is your name Harold ?

No.  I chose that user name in memory of someone I flew with (in a different incarnation) who was called Harold.He wasn't mad,but because of his fearless flying ( he flew Mosquitos in WW2) he was given that nickname by us fellow pilots.

After flying warplanes in combat,understandably, nothing much scared him.

[jetzi]

Can anyone suggest how to search for canal/river fronting properties/land online? I'd like to see what's out there that could potentially have an end of garden agreement. Unfortunately most of the big websites allow you to search by area, price, size but not the most important factor of all, whether I can park a boat!

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Can anyone suggest how to search for canal/river fronting properties/land online? I'd like to see what's out there that could potentially have an end of garden agreement. Unfortunately most of the big websites allow you to search by area, price, size but not the most important factor of all, whether I can park a boat!

 

When looking for mine I googled "canalside properties with moorings".

 

Then you need to eliminate those above budget and those whose frontage is too short for the boat you have in mind.

 

Mine started as an idle Google to pass time in September 2013 and ended with moving in at the end of February 2014, before buying a boat in June 2014.

 

 

[MtB]

46 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

When looking for mine I googled "canalside properties with moorings".

 

Then you need to eliminate those above budget and those whose frontage is too short for the boat you have in mind.

 

Mine started as an idle Google to pass time in September 2013 and ended with moving in at the end of February 2014, before buying a boat in June 2014.

 

 

 

 

The curious thing about having a house with water frontage, I always think as I pass them, is the water frontage usually makes for a great garden and the last thing I'd want to do is plonk a 60ft of narrow boat on mine, if I had such a garden. It would ruin the view! 

 

In addition I'd have paid more for the house because of the water frontage AND I'd still have to pay CRT 50% of local mooring costs to moor my own boat there, so on balance I think I'd actually moor my boat somewhere else so as to still enjoy my garden and water frontage.

 

Do you ever find yourself wondering this Mr Hound? 

 

 

 

[cuthound]

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

The curious thing about having a house with water frontage, I always think as I pass them, is the water frontage usually makes for a great garden and the last thing I'd want to do is plonk a 60ft of narrow boat on mine, if I had such a garden. It would ruin the view! 

 

In addition I'd have paid more for the house because of the water frontage AND I'd still have to pay CRT 50% of local mooring costs to moor my own boat there, so on balance I think I'd actually moor my boat somewhere else so as to still enjoy my garden and water frontage.

 

Do you ever find yourself wondering this Mr Hound? 

 

 

 

 

No.

 

Regarding the view, when i bought my house it had a wall of 21 conifers between canal and house, so the canal was invisible! Also the boat is mainly moored behind the house which only has the kitchen and bathroom windows on that elevation.

 

The premium on the house being canalside in my view is worth it for the entertainment the boats and wildlife provide.

 

Regarding mooring fees, I pay 50% of the nearest online CRT mooring without facilities, so currently about £600 per annum, compared to about £3000 per annum if I put the boat in a local marina.

 

In short retiring and moving from Surrey to here as been the best decision I have ever made. ?

[jetzi]

23 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Regarding mooring fees, I pay 50% of the nearest online CRT mooring without facilities, so currently about £600 per annum, compared to about £3000 per annum if I put the boat in a local marina.

Do you still have to pay this mooring fee if you don't have a boat? i.e. is the fee for the space or is it for the boat parked there?

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, ivan&alice said:

Do you still have to pay this mooring fee if you don't have a boat? i.e. is the fee for the space or is it for the boat parked there?

For the boat.  It's an end of garden mooring fee, not a charge for waterside land.

[Arthur Marshall]

7 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Do you still have to pay this mooring fee if you don't have a boat? i.e. is the fee for the space or is it for the boat parked there?

I remember when they invented mooring fees BW sent bills to all the house sroound Chester with canal access, whether or not they had boats. Soon got dropped. 

[jetzi]

44 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

For the boat.  It's an end of garden mooring fee, not a charge for waterside land.

What happens if someone buys the property but does not have a boat? Can they rent the mooring "right" without a boat?

 

If they choose not to rent the mooring, does the mooring right lapse, and if they want to moor a boat there in the future have to reapply?

[Athy]

1 minute ago, ivan&alice said:

What happens if someone buys the property but does not have a boat? Can they rent the mooring "right" without a boat?

 

If they choose not to rent the mooring, does the mooring right lapse, and if they want to moor a boat there in the future have to reapply?

To your first question:I don't think that CART allows sub-letting of the mooring. I equally think that some people do it.

To your second question: it probably depends on what's in the deeds of your house. We do not currently have a boat on our end-of-garden mooring, but we have the right to moor one there any time that we wish to. We can also fish in the water (no thanks) and draw water for the garden.  But ours is not a CART waterway.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, ivan&alice said:

What happens if someone buys the property but does not have a boat? Can they rent the mooring "right" without a boat?

 

If they choose not to rent the mooring, does the mooring right lapse, and if they want to moor a boat there in the future have to reapply?

No, yes and yes.

 

You don't need to pay the EoG fee if you don't have a boat using it as a home mooring.  If the mooring is allowed to lapse then you would need to reapply for one.

 

Details are on the main CRT website under moorings.

1 minute ago, Athy said:

To your first question:I don't think that CART allows sub-letting of the mooring. I equally think that some people do it

Good point.

 

CRT used to allow subletting of EoG moorings with the landowners written permission, but they recently changed it so only the landowner can now get an EoG mooring.

[jetzi]

23 minutes ago, Athy said:

To your first question:I don't think that CART allows sub-letting of the mooring. I equally think that some people do it.

To your second question: it probably depends on what's in the deeds of your house. We do not currently have a boat on our end-of-garden mooring, but we have the right to moor one there any time that we wish to. We can also fish in the water (no thanks) and draw water for the garden.  But ours is not a CART waterway.

I wasn't suggesting to sub let. I'm thinking about the situation that if someone had a property with canal frontage and wanted to preserve their own right to moor there (if they started out with one). I'm wondering if they would need to have a mooring for a boat rented there at all times in order to preserve their right to moor, without having to reapply with CART.

Mainly I don't like the idea that I would buy a property with the express reason that it had a canal frontage and mooring and later CART could turn around and take that right away, being that I would probably pay a hefty premium for such a privilege. I would want to find a place that had maximum freedom to do whatever I wanted with my end of garden mooring, something like what @Athy has! Do you mind telling me what waterway it is? Or what other waterways (connected to the main system) would have a more permissive attitude to EoG moorings than CART?

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, ivan&alice said:

I would want to find a place that had maximum freedom to do whatever I wanted with my end of garden mooring, something like what @Athy has!

Then you need a property with riparian rights, usually on a river where you own the riverbed out to the centre.

 

You might find these tend not to be cheap though!

[Athy]

I don't mind at all. It's the Old River Nene, known locally as Well Creek. I think (though someone will be sure to correct me if I'm wrong) that householders whose property borders a river have riparian rights - in our case it means that we own our bit of river, 48 feet long,  up to half way across (can't remember if it's the river bed or the water that we own - the river bed, would be more logical). That's it in my avatar, in the days when we did actually moor at the end of the garden. Above is another view (the hedgehog is not, alas, a permanent feature).

 

P.S. Mr Biccy's comment crossed with mine.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Athy

[Alan de Enfield]

@ivan&alice

 

Pretty much anything that is granted on the payment of a short term 'fee' is only a 'temporary permission' and can be revoked at the end of the 'licence' period unless the law says it is renewable (ie a boat licence - if the 3 criteria are met the issuing of a licence cannot be refused)

 

So I would suggest that buying a house solely on the basis you have a mooring in perpetuity would be a mistake, as your 'contract' would only appear to run for one year, until a new contract /payment is made.

 

 

This may be of assistance ;

 

 

eogmooring.pdf

Edited June 26, 2019 by Alan de Enfield