Survey predicament

[knlp87]

Hi Everyone,

 

I currently thinking about putting an offer a 45ft 1990 Colecraft narrowboat, 10,6,3 steel. It has just had a out of water hull survey April this year blacked at the same time Bss until 2023, and was showing only a loss of under 1mm of thickness since 1990. Only things showing were hull opening was corroded and was to be cleaned and treated and mating surfaces on weed hatch and seal were to be checked. 

 

I'm just in two minds of whether I should have my own full pre purchase survey done especially to check everything inside aswell, or am I being silly as its just had one done? it just feels a bit of going into the unknown without having these things checked for myself.

 

Would appreciate your thoughts

 

Thanks

 

[Alan de Enfield]

A couple of 'thoughts'

 

Why was the survey done - if it was as a pre-purchase survey why did the sale fall thru ?

Are you sure you are seeing the FULL survey and not just the extracts showing the least bad bits ?

Has the identified work been done and 'signed off' as satisfactory by a surveyor ?

 

You do realis that as you did not commission the survey that you have absolutely no 'come-back' on the surveyor if he missed that big hole in hull blocked up with chewing gum.

(Not that you have much 'come back' anyway due to their 'small print' saying they are not responsible for anything they write).

 

Edit to add - being as its almost 30 years old, you may find that your insurance company will insist on a survey before insuring it. I don't know if they need the survey in your name, or if they will accept the one it has - Make a phone call and find out.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Naughty Cal]

Get your own survey.

 

A good surveyor will find enough faults to renegotiate the price and get at least the cost of the survey back.

[pete.i]

It depends on how competant you are. We looked at three boats and if we had bought either of the first two we would have been badly bitten. I only had hull surveys done on all three as I am confident I can sort out 99% of anything above the water. The third boat's hull survey was excellent. If you are not confident in what you are looking at or reading then I would go for a full survey. Others will tell you differently.

[knlp87]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A couple of 'thoughts'

 

Why was the survey done - if it was as a pre-purchase survey why did the sale fall thru ?

Are you sure you are seeing the FULL survey and not just the extracts showing the least bad bits ?

Has the identified work been done and 'signed off' as satisfactory by a surveyor ?

 

You do realis that as you did not commission the survey that you have absolutely no 'come-back' on the surveyor if he missed that big hole in hull blocked up with chewing gum.

(Not that you have much 'come back' anyway due to their 'small print' saying they are not responsible for anything they write).

 

Edit to add - being as its almost 30 years old, you may find that your insurance company will insist on a survey before insuring it. I don't know if they need the survey in your name, or if they will accept the one it has - Make a phone call and find out.

In regards to why the survey was done, I have not asked that yet,  it is just a survey on the hull not a pre purchase survey. I have asked if the identified work has been done, waiting to hear back on that.  

 

Thank you for all your replies, I think it definitely has made my mind up to get a full pre purchase survey done if  I go ahead, I would feel more confident in what i'm buying.

 

Thanks everyone

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, knlp87 said:

………... it is just a survey on the hull not a pre purchase survey.

A lot of people just have a hull survey (before purchase) its the only important bit (all the other inside stuff is easily fixed) and its cheaper to have a simple Hull survey.

It could well have been a pre-purchase survey - ask the vendor why it was done.

[BilgePump]

Last survey was possibly a necessity for a fully comp insurance premium on an older boat

 

I'm guessing the boat is around the twenty odd k mark, old but well maintained, if the the last survey is to be trusted. If it looks good get it looked at by your surveyor. Less than 5% of the price to get it checked out. Overplating would be the biggest expense on an older boat so look for something that if you look after it, it won't need it during your ownership. . Just make sure the paperwork you have seen ties up with the reality in the drydock.

Edited June 16, 2019 by BilgePump

[knlp87]

I will ask why the survey was done. The survey that boatyard have on the boat was done April this year, could be the insurance or getting ready to sell. The owner is selling due to ill health, yes the boat is 27,995 overall the boat looks good to get it checked out further. I would also want the engine checked over as there is quite a bit of diesel and water in the engine bilge, boat has not been in use for a while and sat in a marina, due to the owners ill health.

[David Schweizer]

45 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A couple of 'thoughts'

 

Why was the survey done - if it was as a pre-purchase survey why did the sale fall thru ?

Are you sure you are seeing the FULL survey and not just the extracts showing the least bad bits ?

Has the identified work been done and 'signed off' as satisfactory by a surveyor ?

 

You do realis that as you did not commission the survey that you have absolutely no 'come-back' on the surveyor if he missed that big hole in hull blocked up with chewing gum.

(Not that you have much 'come back' anyway due to their 'small print' saying they are not responsible for anything they write).

 

Edit to add - being as its almost 30 years old, you may find that your insurance company will insist on a survey before insuring it. I don't know if they need the survey in your name, or if they will accept the one it has - Make a phone call and find out.

I think it is a good idea on an old boat. We had a hull survey done on our 34 year old  boat before we put it up for sale, because it had not had one for about ten years, and I wanted to ensure that anything that might turn up could be dealt with before a prospectuve buyer had their own  survey. The surveyor found a couple of minor faults which I had rectified, and the boat subsequently got a clean bill of health when the prospective purchase had his pre-purchase survey done.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by David Schweizer

[knlp87]

2 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

I think it is a good idea on an old boat. We had a hull survey done on our 34 year old  boat before we put it up for sale, because it had not had one for about ten years, and I wanted to ensure that anything that might turn up could be dealt with before a prospectuve buyer had their own  survey. The surveyor found a couple of minor faults which I had rectified, and the boat subsequently got a clean bill of health when the prospective purchase had his pre-purchase survey done.

 

 

Yes I think so too and for the potential buyer it offers an indication of what the current state of the boat is, rather than a boat having had a survey years ago or not having one at all.

[Richard10002]

Our boat is coming out of the water in September and, having owned it since 2011, I’m considering having a hull survey for my own peace of mind.

 

If I then decided to sell it in, say, November, it would have a recent survey, with no suspicious reasons for it having been carried out. I may, or may not, have carried out any work recommended, or advised.

 

However, I would be completely understanding of a potential buyers wariness.

[dor]

Not long ago I saw a thirty year old Colecraft that was one step away from a sieve.   Get your own hull survey!

[Bee]

Hmmm, Ideally you would get a hull (at least) survey done. However, the boat has had a survey and if the surveyor had any professional competence it would have been a fair opinion of the condition of the boat, and a very recent one at that.  Its also been blacked so its all covered in paint anyway. I would have a look at the survey and see if there are things that prevented access to bits of the boat - under the floor, inside lockers, behind and under cupboards, dark musty corners in fact and all the difficult bits. Then see if you can have a look at them. Also as a good idea, Google 'lubricating oil sample' and see if you can send  off a sample, its not expensive and will tell you something about the engine. That goes a long way beyond the original survey. Personally I would go with the survey.

[Phil Ambrose]

1 hour ago, dor said:

Not long ago I saw a thirty year old Colecraft that was one step away from a sieve.   Get your own hull survey!

This so difficult to call, for example my 30 year old Colecraft had a hull survey which the surveyor said had the best bottom he'd ever seen , you just don't know, peace of mind is everything.

Phil 

[mrsmelly]

Whilst surveys often appear to be a good thing, I have never had one and am on my eighth boat. Never bought a bad boat yet. The boat I own today I looked at and paid fully for inside twenty minutes. A week or so later the broker sent me a wadd of bumff through the post and included was a full pre purchase survey done a month before I bought the boat, I had no idea of this survey. I read it and it just supported that I had bought a great boat. However it also proved again to me about not spending money on surveys, the surveyer a very very well known and experienced one hadnt noticed a leaking cauliflower which I had spotted on my twenty minute look round I could see this and new it woukd cost me 500 quid but didnt mind as I had budgeted for that before I paid. He had noticed and remarked on the blindingly obvious re water in the engine bilge and surface rust in engine bay, an obvious and easy to see nothing of a job. I have saved in eight boats many many thousands of pounds by not having a survey ever. Its your money but I have read some surveys over the years that are simply not worth the paper they were printed on. At the very most I would ever pay for would be a hull survey but I never even do that. What is your take on risk? we are all different. It has to be said I was damn lucky with the first boat as I knew nowt about steel boats hulls then apart from a few unrelated years in the RN.

[David Schweizer]

48 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Whilst surveys often appear to be a good thing, I have never had one and am on my eighth boat. Never bought a bad boat yet. The boat I own today I looked at and paid fully for inside twenty minutes. A week or so later the broker sent me a wadd of bumff through the post and included was a full pre purchase survey done a month before I bought the boat, I had no idea of this survey. I read it and it just supported that I had bought a great boat. However it also proved again to me about not spending money on surveys, the surveyer a very very well known and experienced one hadnt noticed a leaking cauliflower which I had spotted on my twenty minute look round I could see this and new it woukd cost me 500 quid but didnt mind as I had budgeted for that before I paid. He had noticed and remarked on the blindingly obvious re water in the engine bilge and surface rust in engine bay, an obvious and easy to see nothing of a job. I have saved in eight boats many many thousands of pounds by not having a survey ever. Its your money but I have read some surveys over the years that are simply not worth the paper they were printed on. At the very most I would ever pay for would be a hull survey but I never even do that. What is your take on risk? we are all different. It has to be said I was damn lucky with the first boat as I knew nowt about steel boats hulls then apart from a few unrelated years in the RN.

What is the old saying?  arrogance pride comes befeore a fall.

[mrsmelly]

Just now, David Schweizer said:

What is the old saying?  arrogance pride comes befeore a fall.

I did say I was darn lucky with the first one. Having owned and lived on eight for the past thirty years though does give me the edge on many in what and were to look, also skippering some bigger stuff and little narrowboats does give experience. People do as they wish and the safe option is usualy getting a survey, but good look with making a claim if the surveyer makes a mistake.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I did say I was darn lucky with the first one. Having owned and lived on eight for the past thirty years though does give me the edge on many in what and were to look, also skippering some bigger stuff and little narrowboats does give experience. People do as they wish and the safe option is usualy getting a survey, but good look with making a claim if the surveyer makes a mistake.

Similarly - in 30+ years and 18 boats bought I have only had one survey.

 

That survey was for the 1st 'big' boat we bought, after finding so many faults with it that the surveyor had not picked up on, and after trying to take him to court, to be told by my Barrister that due to the 'small print' we didn't have a chance and would just be throwing more money down the drain I never had a survey again.

 

As I have said on a number of occasions, an Aldi carrier bag full of £20 notes is a big incentive to the seller, and a powerful negotiating tool.

I too have bought boats within 20 minutes of arriving to view.

 

The last boat we bought was a lot of money - I could have bought several new widebeams for the price but I didn't have a survey.

The broker was so concerned he paid for a survey and the cost of a crew taking it from Croatia to Italy as nowhere in Croatia had facilities big enough to lift it (23 foot beam).

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I too have bought boats within 20 minutes of arriving to view.

 

I haven't. I generally find negotiating 15% off the asking price typically takes a couple of hours or more. 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I haven't. I generally find negotiating 15% off the asking price typically takes a couple of hours or more. 

 

 

Your slipping Mike. This one was more than 15 percent off in twenty minutes 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Your slipping Mike. This one was more than 15 percent off in twenty minutes 

 

Yes but yours was overpriced in the first place. Mine was already £10K underpriced!

 

 

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes but yours was overpriced in the first place. Mine was already £10K underpriced!

 

[matty40s]

5 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Our boat is coming out of the water in September and, having owned it since 2011, I’m considering having a hull survey for my own peace of mind.

 

If I then decided to sell it in, say, November, it would have a recent survey, with no suspicious reasons for it having been carried out. I may, or may not, have carried out any work recommended, or advised.

 

However, I would be completely understanding of a potential buyers wariness.

I , and they, should only trust your survey if you had a reputable boatyards invoice showing works completed as per survey. I MAY take these invoices on trust, but if they mentioned massive underwater works, would either ask for a lift at sellers expense to confirm, or if lots of work, commission my own surveyor......probably Trevor the Hammer.