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I am torn - To Buy or not to buy. Am I naive ?


Pengie

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Help!

 

I am really torn.

Having enjoyed canal boat breaks I want to take it further!. I have found a project boat built in 1971 (not springer!) that has been sitting in a marina for 18mths/2 years. It is fibreglass topped but has a steel hull recently part overplated with updated survey 2 years ago. Basic gas set up with a recently updated recon paloma water heater plus gas oven/fridge. Only one battery, Lister engine (SR2?)  No heating and smellls of damp (but presumed it would do if not used for that long??) Windows and interior need replacing and currently no insulation but interior is currently useable. It has been on sale for a month or so.

 

I plan to insulate, add a wood burner to heat and sort a new DIY interior (I know someone who can sort some double glazed windows) Add a couple of batteries and some solar power.Then use twice a month plus so I stay within the 14 day Constant Cruiser rules (Do they really stick to the 14 day movement rigidly?)

 

I have arranged an internal and new hull survey as I know nothing about boats. (It has a remaining 3 1/2 year BSS and was blacked 2 years ago)

 

Am I mad and living in a dream world, or is it a case of get going and learn as you go?

Is there a reason it hasnt sold having been on the market for so long?

Does the age mean the engine or something else is very likely to go caput as soon as I leave the Marina?

Will I be able to run it effectively without all the gubinge of a calorifier/ Inverter/Radiators etc

Will I just be throwing loads of money at it for maintenance bearing in mind its age?

 

I have made a deposit (subject to survey) The surveys are next week but I am starting to think "am I being Naive"?

 

Any constructive comments/ thoughts/ helpfull tips or just general "dont do it you idiot" (if applicable!) would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

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Never known anyone that took on a project like this that wasn't naive. If they weren't they would have never jumped in.  Not owned a narrow boat (yet) but I have done a few projects. Cars, boats, restoring old antique wood working machines, etc.  First one of two were all more work than I expected. Evenven without seeing this boat I would promise you there is a hell of lot more work and money involved then you think. Everyone without experience ALWAYS grossly under estimates what they are getting involved in. That is just the way projects are, boats being at the top of that list.

 

Not saying don't buy it, just go in with realistic expectations and questioning your sanity is a good sign. Just make sure you have the stamina and funds to stick it out to the end.

 

Here is my current project. I figure it will take me 2 years working part time to get it back on the water. 

CpBRXBwl.jpg

Edited by Kudzucraft
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2 hours ago, Pengie said:

Do they really stick to the 14 day movement rigidly?

Yes. 

 

If you are not scared off by the boat, then good luck and we will help as much as we can with advice and suggestions.

 

If you are intending to take the urine from day one, then those of us who get grief from CRT for being genuine continuous cruisers will be quite unfriendly!

 

We have done over 400 miles and 400 locks so far this year.  If you want to stay both sides of one bridge every fortnight then stuff you. 

 

If you genuinely want to boat then welcome to the community, and we will help you as much as we can.

  • Greenie 5
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Please be more specific about what exactly you mean by "no insulation". 

 

If you genuinely mean, for example, that the steel hull is lined with wood, but there is absolutely no insulating layer in between, then, depending on exact construction, it may prove harder to remedy than if you were starting with an empty unlined shell. 

 

Note such a boat would not really be practical to use in many weathers until you had addressed this fairly fully. 

 

It may well at least explain the damp smell! 

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4 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

If you are not scared off by the boat, then good luck and we will help as much as we can with advice and suggestions.

 

 

A most charitable view, and something which numerous CWDF members have proved themselves very good at over the years.

Your subsequent remarks might be seen as less charitable.

 

I have to say that the boat does not sound like a winner to me, from the description. The engine, if it has been maintained, should be sturdy and reliable. The rest of the boat, less so. Is it being offered at a very cheap price?

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Please explain your ‘twice a month plus’ to comply with the 14 day rule (although I fully agree with The Biscuits comment above).

Sounds like you think the rule is like only using a static holiday caravan for a limited time - it’s not.

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Hi Pengie, welcome to the forum!

You didn't mention the price or size of the boat in question. Everything has a price at which it would be worth it. Have you been looking for boats and found this one? Or did you see a too-good-to-be-true price and start dreaming?

 

There are a number of things you mentioned there that would be an absolute dealbreaker for me. The hull sounds like it is in very poor condition. A survey from 2 years ago cannot be relied on and I'd strongly recommend getting one for a boat in this state. If it has needed overplating in some areas it's quite possible that other areas have also since deteriorated. A boat sitting for sale for 2 years won't have been maintained properly. And fibreglass top, yuck.

"No insulation" sounds dubious, not sure how that's possible if the interior is livable. If you really don't have insulation this boat is going to be unbearable in both the cold of winter and the heat of summer. Insulating it is going to involve redoing the interior entirely. This is a very major hassle and expense.

 

Yes, I think that you will need to spend a great deal of money on this boat to complete the project, and moreover, you're going to need to do a lot of work. This is going to be particularly difficult given the fact that you want to continuous cruise and you aren't going to have a home base for deliveries and working on her.

 

Finally on continuous cruising, as @TheBiscuits said your plan to do the bare minimum every two weeks MIGHT be within the letter of the rules but is not considered within the spirit of it. The letter of the rules is actually not fully explained - it's more than just cruising every two weeks. I am told there are a myriad other factors that CaRT will look into when deciding whether to renew your license, such as the distance traveled, the pattern (did you move the minimum distance for three months and then go on a long cruise? This is not "continuous" enough), the number of times you overstayed (because of poor weather etc), if you had any complaints against you. If you move your boat a mile every two weeks for a year, I am pretty sure that they will have something to say about it. And yes, to answer your question, your movement every two weeks is monitored strictly.

 

But the spirit of the community is more important than the literal rules. Keep in mind that the canals are rather crowded in places. Continuous cruisers are using visitors moorings because they are visiting places. If your boat is in a mooring, that means that someone else can't moor there who is genuinely visiting the spot. It is seen as uncool to try to get away with the minimum amount of cruising possible.

 

I'm not trying to put you off or telling you not to do it, I'm just letting you know because you might not be aware that you could encounter a good deal of vitriol from the boating community if you carry out this plan. We're liveaboard CCers and we've certainly been on the receiving end of this vitriol, owing to our we-also-work-a-9-to-5-job cruising pattern (we certainly haven't done 400 miles and 400 locks this year... yet!). What you're proposing is substantially less cruising than what we are doing. You should just be aware that your plan is going to be seen by other boaters as selfish. Consider renting a home mooring somewhere affordable for when you aren't genuinely cruising.

  • Greenie 2
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Trying to do a major refit, including installing a stove, without a permanent mooring where you can have some form of power supply, would be a nightmare. You need the mooring at least while you sort the boat out, plus the logistics of moving fortnightly while resident elsewhere can also be tricky. 

Factor a mooring cost into your budget - an end of garden farmers field needn't cost an arm and a leg. 

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7 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

................  you would have to be crazy.  ............  sorry to pour cold water on your dream - I predict it will just become a nightmare, and you will come to resent the boat within a few months.

And it will be left, yet again, as a part fitted out project for the next dreamer to take on.

 

There are dozens of them lying about in boatyards all over the country.

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I would not go anywhere near a boat of this age/type for the reasons stated above. Refitting and old boat unless it has some historic or other significance is a money pit and will not be worth anything more when completed. The amount of work required is huge, time consuming and expensive even if you have the skills to do it all yourself. The amount of work needed is always much more than you think and you need facilities to do it. I have spent over a year of equivalent time refitting a boat of a similar age and have all the facilities on hand to do it. Much better to buy a decent boat that needs maybe just a little TLC. The costs of licensing, insurance etc are the same. Better to borrow the money and pay back the loan rather than waste money trying to restore a wreck. Sorry to be so negative but I have seen so many people make such an expensive mistake and as been stated previously boatyards are full of them. If you have to pay for expensive repairs(and they all are) you will soon end up paying more than the boat is worth.

M

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Go for it …. with your eyes open and your heart full of enthusiasm.

You seem to know up front that it won't be easy or a walk in the park, but unless you've found the secret of eternal youth you're just getting older with each day.

 

My old tub is 50 this year and has had all of the things you mention above done, and the maintenance is constant.

Your biggest issues may well come from not having a home mooring (it sounds as if you're contemplating that) I too get tired of freeloaders pushing their luck when it comes to such things.  Those towpath hopping over the same short stretch all year are a plague.

 

I pay for everything I need and don't appreciate those that think the rules are a challenge to be tackled.

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I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, so to speak. I'm doing something similar to a total wreck. in my opinion, and at the end of the day I can only see the one I am doing being left or even sinking. The one I am working on is a boatyard and I am not paying as it is not my boat. I have told the owner to sell asap and get rid if he can. Also, as said, in spite of Athy's, seemingly, sympathetic remarks about The Biscuit's "less than charitable view" I totally agree with him. If you are going to take the piss go to somewhere else.

 

Best advice, walk away. Don't even think about it until you have enough cash to buy something half decent.

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Having taken part in the fitting out of (new) GRP hire boats I can only echo what others have said. The work WILL take maybe five times longer than you estimate it will. The steel to GRP joint will be a constant problem, more so if there is no steel upstand or the upstand on the hull and inside the GRP top has rusted through.

 

A good test is to draw the cost of the boat out of your bank, stand by a bonfire and ask yourself if you can afford to throw the cash on nthe fire. If the answer is yes then either doing so or buying the boat is likely to have similar results in the end.

 

If we are talking about (say) £1000 then such a boat just might be worth a punt but I bet it's priced at close to ten times as much.

 

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Many of us started off with some terrible old boats. I started with an unconverted hull of a 70` wooden boat. I think that knowing what I know now I would avoid the fibreglass top and wait till a steel topped boat came along unless the top was in very good condition (knowing what I know now I would also avoid some of the wine, women and substances too but there you go)  There are plenty of all steel boats about these days. You don't need all the gubbins of electronic thingys or much else either, you do need a decent safe stove though. If you wait till the perfect boat comes along and you have the money to buy it you'll wait forever, go for it and good luck.

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50 minutes ago, pete.i said:

I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, so to speak. 

 

Best advice, walk away. Don't even think about it until you have enough cash to buy something half decent.

 

I wouldn't touch it either because after part-fitting a narrowboat and then fitting out a widebeam I just wouldn't have the energy. Sometimes when I see what some boaters have taken on and got themselves involved in it makes me shudder, but if they have the energy and the money to complete these projects then fair enough. The trouble is a lot of them don't.

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9 hours ago, Pengie said:

Help!

 

I am really torn.

Having enjoyed canal boat breaks I want to take it further!. I have found a project boat built in 1971 (not springer!) that has been sitting in a marina for 18mths/2 years. It is fibreglass topped but has a steel hull recently part overplated with updated survey 2 years ago. Basic gas set up with a recently updated recon paloma water heater plus gas oven/fridge. Only one battery, Lister engine (SR2?)  No heating and smellls of damp (but presumed it would do if not used for that long??) Windows and interior need replacing and currently no insulation but interior is currently useable. It has been on sale for a month or so.

 

I plan to insulate, add a wood burner to heat and sort a new DIY interior (I know someone who can sort some double glazed windows) Add a couple of batteries and some solar power.Then use twice a month plus so I stay within the 14 day Constant Cruiser rules (Do they really stick to the 14 day movement rigidly?)

 

I have arranged an internal and new hull survey as I know nothing about boats. (It has a remaining 3 1/2 year BSS and was blacked 2 years ago)

 

Am I mad and living in a dream world, or is it a case of get going and learn as you go?

Is there a reason it hasnt sold having been on the market for so long?

Does the age mean the engine or something else is very likely to go caput as soon as I leave the Marina?

Will I be able to run it effectively without all the gubinge of a calorifier/ Inverter/Radiators etc

Will I just be throwing loads of money at it for maintenance bearing in mind its age?

 

I have made a deposit (subject to survey) The surveys are next week but I am starting to think "am I being Naive"?

 

Any constructive comments/ thoughts/ helpfull tips or just general "dont do it you idiot" (if applicable!) would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

How much is it? If its over 3/5k absolute max then forget it. Even if its free its going to cost more to put right than its ever going to be worth. Put it down to experience and next time ask before you jump. You have no idea the work and cost actualy involved. Many of us do cos we have been there and done it. Sorry to be negative but you will save your sole in the long run.

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Don't bring the fish into it or the fish jokes will start agin.

 

2 Fish in a tank …………………………….

Damn..............and I cant blame spill chucker cos its disabled!!

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Walk away and don't look back!

From what you have said,there are too many negatives with this boat.Fibreglass top = leaks.Part over plated =more will want doing.Lister engine = big bills to fix.

I havn't done a project (yet) but just maintaining my boat is nearly a full time (and) expensive job!

It sounds as if even this boat is free,it will be a heartbreaking and financially ruinous project.

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