I am torn - To Buy or not to buy. Am I naive ?

[Peter X]

There are clearly lots of things to worry about for this boat, and a lot of time and effort will be needed to get it how you want it, but if it's very cheap and you feel you can put in that time and effort then good luck to you. If its name is really Sloppy Dah Dah that might be appropriate, and actually rather cool; please keep that!

If you install double glazed (or any) windows, please make sure they're not house windows that open outwards, especially if they go beyond the edge of the boat. You don't want the windows catching on lock sides, other boats etc. because that can do a lot of damage.

Apart from the difficulties of doing work to a boat while on the move, you need to consider how your lifestyle (work especially but also family, friends etc.) fits with continuous cruising. It seems to me that it's great for some people, very difficult for others.

[70liveaboard]

OP. You don't say how much it is, money wise.

 

There is a little to go on though. Probably an ex hire boat of the period, there were a couple of hire firms that had plastic on steel, not the tech description but one I'm familiar with.

However, that is not a problem really, depends on the condition of the grp. SR2 were great engines, but regards parts, if there are any problems, you would have to check around.

 

The boat was tested a year or two back, then there should be some details you could get either from paperwork or the surveyor. Steel, even if stood, does not deteriate that badly within two years. There should have been a test of the steel thickness or what remained, when tested.

 

It is a very old boat, so there is that to think hard about. But that would be down to how much they want for it.

 

Anyway good luck, most boaters start cruising having had a dream to do just that. So your in the right frame of mind. Although some do get their fingers burnt.. But as is life..

Edited June 23, 2019 by 70liveaboard

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, 70liveaboard said:

Steel, even if stood, does not deteriate that badly within two years

But, It can do.

There was a thread here a while ago where the 'poster' was most unhappy.

From memory he had had a 'good' survey, he took the boat out a couple of years later for blacking, the 'yard' jet washed and blacked it and put it back in the water and the boat sunk.

 

In 2 years the bottom had gone from "good and 'passed' the survey" to being a colander and sat on the bottom of the canal.

[70liveaboard]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But, It can do.

There was a thread here a while ago where the 'poster' was most unhappy.

From memory he had had a 'good' survey, he took the boat out a couple of years later for blacking, the 'yard' jet washed and blacked it and put it back in the water and the boat sunk.

 

In 2 years the bottom had gone from "good and 'passed' the survey" to being a colander and sat on the bottom of the canal.

There's always a story...

 

Plus I would be wanting to speak to the first surveyor, if that happened 'genuinely'. I.e. he missed a particularly bad section. That is down to a good surveyor to find.

Edited June 23, 2019 by 70liveaboard

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, 70liveaboard said:

There's many stories...

/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ Small correction for you.

 

Another regular poster had his hull go from no pits to 'deeply pitted' on one side in a year.

The conditions alter with the mooring location - mooring next to steel piling, mooring next to a boat with 'leaky electrical worms', having / not having Electrical isolation etc etc all affects speed of corrosion.

[70liveaboard]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ Small correction for you.

 

Another regular poster had his hull go from no pits to 'deeply pitted' on one side in a year.

The conditions alter with the mooring location - mooring next to steel piling, mooring next to a boat with 'leaky electrical worms', having / not having Electrical isolation etc etc all affects speed of corrosion.

No, to say these cases are rare, would be an understatement. Just the usual disinformation from here, as usual.

 

 

OP if the boat was surveyed by a good surveyor, then you should have little problem, just contact them or check paperwork.

That said, a survey is always handy prior to buying, especially on a boat of that age.

[TheBiscuits]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But, It can do.

There was a thread here a while ago where the 'poster' was most unhappy.

From memory he had had a 'good' survey, he took the boat out a couple of years later for blacking, the 'yard' jet washed and blacked it and put it back in the water and the boat sunk.

 

In 2 years the bottom had gone from "good and 'passed' the survey" to being a colander and sat on the bottom of the canal.

Shotblasted, 2-packed and sank if it's the one I'm thinking of in Cheshire.

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Shotblasted, 2-packed and sank if it's the one I'm thinking of in Cheshire.

It was - but I just cannot remember whose boat it was that got severely pitted on one side.

[jetzi]

7 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Shotblasted, 2-packed and sank if it's the one I'm thinking of in Cheshire.

I'm surprised that shotblasting wouldn't reveal to the casual observer whether the boat had holes in it.

[Alan de Enfield]

50 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

I'm surprised that shotblasting wouldn't reveal to the casual observer whether the boat had holes in it.

That was part of the owners argument - the operator grit blasting &/or the person applying the paint should have noticed the holes and notified the owner and asked what to do. Instead they just painted it (presumably lightly blocking the holes), launched it and it sank overnight.

[Murflynn]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That was part of the owners argument - the operator grit blasting &/or the person applying the paint should have noticed the holes and notified the owner and asked what to do. Instead they just painted it (presumably lightly blocking the holes), launched it and it sank overnight.

maybe that's why epoxy blacking is so popular!   

[Mad Harold]

At my last blacking, the yard I used used a high pressure steam cleaner to prepare the hull.

The bloke doing it said that he had blown holes in "dodgy" hulls on more than one occasion.

[ditchcrawler]

13 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It was - but I just cannot remember whose boat it was that got severely pitted on one side.

Keeping Up ?

 

[tree monkey]

6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That was part of the owners argument - the operator grit blasting &/or the person applying the paint should have noticed the holes and notified the owner and asked what to do. Instead they just painted it (presumably lightly blocking the holes), launched it and it sank overnight.

Was this the one who's had an ongoing row with the boat yard in Chester?

[Alan de Enfield]

31 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Keeping Up ?

 

Could well have been @Keeping Up

Maybe he could confirm the story ?

23 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Was this the one who's had an ongoing row with the boat yard in Chester?

Think so.

[Keeping Up]

50 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Could well have been @Keeping Up

Maybe he could confirm the story ?

No ours was a slightly different story. At about 23 years old the boat came out for blacking, then after washing it the boatyard and I inspected the hull together. The deepest pits in the 6mm sides were less than 0.5mm. Then a year later the insurers (luckily) insisted on a survey as we approached 25 years old, and the surveyor and I were shocked to find extensive pitting on both sides from end to end, waterline to nameplate, to a depth of well over 5mm in the 6mm steel. Strangely the baseplate was unaffected. At that rate we would soon have been the proud owners of a 67' submarine, so we immediately had her replated. The cause remains a mystery to this day and will probably never be resolved. 

[Machpoint005]

4 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

At my last blacking, the yard I used used a high pressure steam cleaner to prepare the hull.

The bloke doing it said that he had blown holes in "dodgy" hulls on more than one occasion.

 

If you had a dodgy hull wouldn't you rather find out when someone blasted it with something, rather than the canal sneaking in unseen? 

[Alan de Enfield]

37 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

No ours was a slightly different story. At about 23 years old the boat came out for blacking, then after washing it the boatyard and I inspected the hull together. The deepest pits in the 6mm sides were less than 0.5mm. Then a year later the insurers (luckily) insisted on a survey as we approached 25 years old, and the surveyor and I were shocked to find extensive pitting on both sides from end to end, waterline to nameplate, to a depth of well over 5mm in the 6mm steel. Strangely the baseplate was unaffected. At that rate we would soon have been the proud owners of a 67' submarine, so we immediately had her replated. The cause remains a mystery to this day and will probably never be resolved. 

Thank you.

 

Yes that was the second example I referred to 

 

1) Bottom thinned and after painting sank. All within a year or so of a good survey.

 

2) Gone from pits of less than 0.5mm to extensive pits of 5mm all across one side of the boat, and all within 12 months.

 

I was simply given examples as an alternative view to :

 

22 hours ago, 70liveaboard said:

The boat was tested a year or two back, then there should be some details you could get either from paperwork or the surveyor. Steel, even if stood, does not deteriate that badly within two years. 

A lot can happen in 2 years.

[70liveaboard]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Thank you.

 

Yes that was the second example I referred to 

 

1) Bottom thinned and after painting sank. All within a year or so of a good survey.

 

2) Gone from pits of less than 0.5mm to extensive pits of 5mm all across one side of the boat, and all within 12 months.

 

I was simply given examples as an alternative view to :

 

A lot can happen in 2 years.

This is very, very rare, I know it, you know (or do you), everyone knows that compared to the number of boats on the cut, this is a very rare thing.

Just be truthful and say you enjoy putting new boaters off boating, and of course certain types of boats you consider, in your very novice way, aren't good enough.

 

OP

Be aware of this on here, there are plenty that will pour scorn on your dream. I would much rather you go from facts. Check the survey and if you want survey again. But believe me, the ridiculous topic they have chosen to put to you is ultra rare..

Edited June 24, 2019 by 70liveaboard

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, 70liveaboard said:

This is very, very rare, I know it, you know (or do you), everyone knows that compared to the number of boats on the cut, this is a very rare thing.

Just be truthful and say you enjoy putting new boaters off boating, and of course certain types of boats you consider, in your very novice way, aren't good enough.

 

Maybe you should retract your statement that steel does not 'deteriorate that much in two years'.

 

You also appear to be suggesting ;

19 hours ago, 70liveaboard said:

OP if the boat was surveyed by a good surveyor, (2 years ago) then you should have little problem,

It will have no corrosion in the followingt few years.

 

I am sure the OP (amongst others) will see your ridiculous posts for what they are.

[70liveaboard]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe you should retract your statement that steel does not 'deteriorate that much in two years'.

 

 

You've no chance of that. Just be truthful, or the poster could always read other posts you've put on, to see that what I say, is pretty spot on. That your posts to newer boaters tend to be negative.

__

Steel does not deteriate that much over two years, or most of the boats floating today would be underwater. Plus the boat he is looking at is floating (I assume) and it is a boat built in 1971. It would probably be fair to say, the steel they used was not 'dodgy'..

 

The incident mentioned, if truthful, and I see no reason for someone to put it out there if it was'nt. Is not a fair reflection of steel canal or river boats of any type. But on here the worse possible outcome is put on to put people off it seems.

Just be straight with the 'little' knowledge you have of steel boats and not put the OP off.

 

You could of course tell him that this is a fair statement you made and common knowledge, that this is how steel boats react when in water.. I.e. they go from 5mm to 0.5 commonly in 2yrs.

The one mentioned didn't either, there is much more to that story I wager.

 

OP, I would be interested to know how much they are asking, money wise. Good luck if you choose to go forward.

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by 70liveaboard

[Captain Pegg]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe you should retract your statement that steel does not 'deteriorate that much in two years'.

 

You also appear to be suggesting ;

It will have no corrosion in the followingt few years.

 

I am sure the OP (amongst others) will see your ridiculous posts for what they are.

They aren’t ridiculous posts Alan.

 

The initial advice from @70liveaboard was something along the lines of “The steel should not have deteriorated much in 2 years but it’s always a good idea to get a survey on a craft of this age”.

 

That is accurate and sound advice. There are always exceptions to the norm in engineering but you can’t make day to day decisions based upon exceptional circumstances and that’s exactly what the two instances you reference exhibit. Steel does not rapidly corrode without catalysts and if there is no apparent change in environment there should be no expectation of a change in the rate of corrosion (which in normal environmental conditions is very very slow).

 

JP

[Alan de Enfield]

I accept that 'corrosion leading to severe damage' is not an everyday thing, however I would say :

 

1) To those 'few' to whom it does occur it is a serious problem. We don't hear about all of them so it is an unknown quantity, but 2 in the last couple of years, happening to two of the small numbers of members of this forum cannot be ignored. There are a number of instances (particularly in the South) of boats sinking  due to ingress of water - but we never hear why or how, maybe some of those could be added to the list ? It is just unknown, but a number significant enough not to be ignored.

 

2) A newbie buying a boat (particularly a more 'elderly' one) should be made aware that life is not all a bed-of-roses and viewed thru rose tinted spectacles. There is a (small) possibility that things can go expensively wrong in a short period of time, and saying there won't be much change in steel corrosion in 2 years is potentially incorrect.

 

 

If I was going into something new, I'd rather have both sides of the story presented to me so I can go into it with my 'eyes open' and make informed decisions.

 

You may view that as negativity, I'd rather see it as reality - things can go wrong.

 

As a non-boaty equivalent, why do you think that Solicitors do 'searches' during house buying - I'd want to know if since the last people bought the house the Council were now planning a new road thru the garden, or that with the increasing wet weather that 'sink-holes' have started to open up in the area. etc.

 

 

[Murflynn]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

As a non-boaty equivalent, why do you think that Solicitors do 'searches' during house buying - I'd want to know if since the last people bought the house the Council were now planning a new road thru the garden, or that with the increasing wet weather that 'sink-holes' have started to open up in the area. etc.

 

 

err  .........   my late mum used to work in the town clerk's office and she did all the searches - the solicitors merely submitted the questionnaire and waited for her to return it with all the answers.   She was a very restrained and gentle lady, but she lost the plot once at a cocktail party when she overheard a solicitor explaining why the search took so long and how much research it involved.  The solicitor retired with a bruised ego. 

[Captain Pegg]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I accept that 'corrosion leading to severe damage' is not an everyday thing, however I would say :

 

1) To those 'few' to whom it does occur it is a serious problem. We don't hear about all of them so it is an unknown quantity, but 2 in the last couple of years, happening to two of the small numbers of members of this forum cannot be ignored. There are a number of instances (particularly in the South) of boats sinking  due to ingress of water - but we never hear why or how, maybe some of those could be added to the list ? It is just unknown, but a number significant enough not to be ignored.

 

2) A newbie buying a boat (particularly a more 'elderly' one) should be made aware that life is not all a bed-of-roses and viewed thru rose tinted spectacles. There is a (small) possibility that things can go expensively wrong in a short period of time, and saying there won't be much change in steel corrosion in 2 years is potentially incorrect.

 

 

If I was going into something new, I'd rather have both sides of the story presented to me so I can go into it with my 'eyes open' and make informed decisions.

 

You may view that as negativity, I'd rather see it as reality - things can go wrong.

 

As a non-boaty equivalent, why do you think that Solicitors do 'searches' during house buying - I'd want to know if since the last people bought the house the Council were now planning a new road thru the garden, or that with the increasing wet weather that 'sink-holes' have started to open up in the area. etc.

 

 

Yes, there are risks involved in buying a boat or a house and they cannot be eliminated so you do due diligence such as getting a survey. You have to remain objective though, and citing generic cases of sinking where you don’t know the cause is not objective.

 

The relevant advice to the OP is to do the necessary due diligence; and even then it’s relative to the level of risk they are comfortable taking. Anything more is alarmist.

 

JP