D&A Marine? Who, what, where?

[Albion]

6 hours ago, 70liveaboard said:

Looking again, I would be on @Albion side, it seems nearer to Buckle than PKB. Looking at the bow returns, Buckle was a little more upright than PKB, I can see the difference in yours and Lazy Daisy.

No real problem for not having the bottom of the bar welded, just 'cheaper' (when built), but it can lead to rust lines as the moisture travels up behind and then brings down the rust, usually forming lines.

Of course you can fill this with a number of products from sillicon onwards, these would give it a good seal. But it's 28yrs old and no problem yet.. so..

 

There are lots of builders in the UK. There are less than a few years back, but still quite a large number.

 

Has it got a certificate or is he going to issue you one. Would like to see some interior shots.

It may well be a shell builder that supplied Pat Buckle after Peter Bellaire went bust/set up PKB etc but I am still puzzled as to who D & A Marine could be as they seem to have had such a short life span. I'm also puzzled by the more streamlined bow shape as I never saw any of Pat's boats with such a shape and, don't forget, he continued building many of the early boats for the Ownerships shared-owners company for quite a while after 1991 and I never saw any of those with that shaped bow.

I'm pretty confident that we have the location in the country, rather than the actual precise name of the shell builder, identified but the builder/fitter out is a mystery at the moment. There is a mention in one of those threads that I quoted that says a company called Darke Boats took over Pat's premises. Could that be any link to the D in the D & A? However the builder is listed as building the boat in 1991 and I know Pat himself was still operational on his Nene-side site well after 1991 so could D & A be an early edition of Darke Boats not far from Stibbinbgton who then took over his place eventually? Who knows.

Roger

[70liveaboard]

3 hours ago, Albion said:

It may well be a shell builder that supplied Pat Buckle after Peter Bellaire went bust/set up PKB etc but I am still puzzled as to who D & A Marine could be as they seem to have had such a short life span. I'm also puzzled by the more streamlined bow shape as I never saw any of Pat's boats with such a shape and, don't forget, he continued building many of the early boats for the Ownerships shared-owners company for quite a while after 1991 and I never saw any of those with that shaped bow.

I'm pretty confident that we have the location in the country, rather than the actual precise name of the shell builder, identified but the builder/fitter out is a mystery at the moment. There is a mention in one of those threads that I quoted that says a company called Darke Boats took over Pat's premises. Could that be any link to the D in the D & A? However the builder is listed as building the boat in 1991 and I know Pat himself was still operational on his Nene-side site well after 1991 so could D & A be an early edition of Darke Boats not far from Stibbinbgton who then took over his place eventually? Who knows.

Roger

Could of course be Peter came back using another name, same premises..

 

It's a very straight forward boat, could be a number of builders, ex employees etc, that set up in business. Peter was still working out of that site/unit in 94/95 (was it Yaxley ?, my memory isn't what it was). So his going in and out of business, didn't affect his location much.

 

I wonder what type of guard rail it is on the stern deck, that might help. Usual would be 3x1 box section, or there-abouts in the usual config. Also gas locker location and so on, may help.

 

Buckle had builders down at his site, maybe one of those. I'm thinking the large yard/field type site he had (was that next to the river, I can't remember), not sure if he did business from anywhere else. That site had everyone and his son building and fitting out down there. Do you remember that site ?

 

Not heard the name Darke Boats, there is Dave Clarke but he isn't/wasn't in that area.

 

There was a fab/engineering shop that did a couple for us down there, not sure if they had done any for others.  Again, I can't remember their name, but they certainly wouldn't be 'Marine'.

 

But trying to see from those pics is difficult, could be just angle of pictures etc. Once he puts some more up, it may fall into place a little better.

Fitout wise down there, I wouldn't know, shells were all we were interested in.

 

Of course D&A Marine, could just be fitters, rather than builders.

 

(Chris).

Edited July 1, 2019 by 70liveaboard

[WotEver]

18 hours ago, Catali said:

She is fitted out in sapele mahogany. Rather lovely with a beautiful sheen though probably difficult, if not impossible to get hold of these days. And/or a bit pricey!!?

It’s a bit pricey but then it always was. It’s pretty widely available from decent wood suppliers. Utile is an alternative, slightly more expensive but usually somewhat more uniform in grain. 

[Albion]

19 hours ago, 70liveaboard said:

Could of course be Peter came back using another name, same premises..

 

It's a very straight forward boat, could be a number of builders, ex employees etc, that set up in business. Peter was still working out of that site/unit in 94/95 (was it Yaxley ?, my memory isn't what it was). So his going in and out of business, didn't affect his location much.

 

I wonder what type of guard rail it is on the stern deck, that might help. Usual would be 3x1 box section, or there-abouts in the usual config. Also gas locker location and so on, may help.

 

Buckle had builders down at his site, maybe one of those. I'm thinking the large yard/field type site he had (was that next to the river, I can't remember), not sure if he did business from anywhere else. That site had everyone and his son building and fitting out down there. Do you remember that site ?

 

Not heard the name Darke Boats, there is Dave Clarke but he isn't/wasn't in that area.

 

There was a fab/engineering shop that did a couple for us down there, not sure if they had done any for others.  Again, I can't remember their name, but they certainly wouldn't be 'Marine'.

 

But trying to see from those pics is difficult, could be just angle of pictures etc. Once he puts some more up, it may fall into place a little better.

Fitout wise down there, I wouldn't know, shells were all we were interested in.

 

Of course D&A Marine, could just be fitters, rather than builders.

 

(Chris).

I can’t remember where the unit was that Peter Bellaire and his son worked now but I do remember that it wasn’t far from Pat Buckle’s yard at Stibbington. 

Pat also had a second guy fabricating shells elsewhere as I was offered a choice but chose Peter. 

When we bought our boat from Pat his site was fairly ramshackle (to put it politely) and only did fit outs. It was down Church Lane at Stibbington and on the bank of the Nene. He had a covered wet dock with ramp down into it and when the shells were delivered and prepped for the water they were lowered down the ramp and launched using some sort of cable winch and trolley system IIRC. He also had some moorings for people (some residential) just around the corner of the river. All his fit out team, engine installers and electricians were self employed and you paid each one separately each week with a cheque for the time billed on your boat that week. That way you didn’t pay VAT because each guy individually didn’t exceed the Vatable limit. 

There were no fabricators or shell builders on Pat’s riverside site at that time and he didn’t have any other site. He lived on a wide beam boat of some sort on the opposite side of his wet dock to the moorings mentioned above. I still have photos of Pat’s site and our boat being built there as well as a couple of the shell nearly completed in Peter’s unit. 

I believe that the D&A operation would only be a fit out company and that they sourced the shell from a shell builder not too far from the Stibbington area (due to the similarities we have discussed) but don’t think it was a Bellaire shell due to the much narrower, more pointed, bow shape. 

Roger

[Athy]

Darke Narrowboats certainly rings a bell from the not-too-distant past.It may have been a "phoenix" company. I think they advertised in one of the boatimags for a short while.

The name "Wood" was mentioned earlier in this thread. Keith Wood was a Nene-based boatbuilder, not sure if he built shells or just fitted them out. 'Spud', apparently the last boat he built before retirement circa early 2000s, is moored not far from here, in Outwell. Its distinctive shape suggests that he may have built the shell.

[Catali]

Wow! Thanks guys! This is getting really interesting! My photos of stern rail (@70liveaboard) are not good because of awning and because I was obsessed with the hull at the time! However here they are...

 

.....you can can just see one of the gas lockers by Fred’s foot on stern deck. There is one port, one starboard.

 

ooh! Just found a few more pics so you can see stern rails and gas lockers.

 

didnt take many of interior as had pics on sales spec (and obsessed with hull design!!!) However should be able to rectify that next week when we complete, handover and commence our maiden voyage in her!!!! How exciting is that!!!! (Sorry folks, getting just a wee bit over excited here!!)

 

 

PS  all the beautiful non slip decking has been added by Fred. Guess what? He’s a sheet metal worker!!

Ditto the stern platform.

[Catali]

If you still concur, I think a trip to Stibbington maybe in order....!

Would the bow shape be more typical of a river builder?

[Catali]

I’m beginning to wonder if the D&A Marine bit is mythical!?

[cuthound]

Darke Steel Narrowboats are in the Peterborough area and are still extant.

 

https://darkegroup.co.uk/narrowboats/

[Catali]

The mooring bollards are a bit unusual too. I hesitate to call them cleats because of their shape. Look kind of unique and “hand made” so to speak. Again, makes me wonder if she was a prototype/one-off or experimental build. Anyone recognise them? These days I imagine they are bought “off the shelf”?

Edited July 2, 2019 by Catali

[70liveaboard]

Good to see some more pics, I bet your excited, I would be, nothing like getting your hands on a new boat, or new to you.

 

I'm fairly sure it isn't PKB, not too sure it's Buckle related either. 

 

The pic's seem to show a solid build, which is why, 28yrs later, it's still in fine condition.

I wish you lots of luck with it and hope you nail down the builder. Can't say it looks familiar to me after seeing those new pics. Although I wouldn't rule out a Hull/Grimsby/Goole link, which was my original thinking. I'll keep looking through my pics and see if anything will marry up.

I'm trying to think of the builders name in Goole, I remember he had moved from a coal yard somewhere, down to the farm he was using when we visited. But that could have been mid 80's, so maybe too early.

 

Anyway..

Let us know how your maiden voyage goes.

 

Edit:  Alex Wroe I seem to remember for Goole. Needed a knock on the head for that.

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by 70liveaboard

[Catali]

Thank you all so much for the input! Maybe someone will recognise her on our travels.

 

Hope we’ll meet some of you as well, though marrying up boats, faces along the way etc with you lot (no offence intended at all!) might take a bit of doing. Maybe you’ll give us some clues if we meet!

 

Btw, my Uncle was Peter Goss. I don’t know if any of you remember him? He ran boats out of Cosgrove many decades ago all built, I think, by Colecraft. His own (a series of them) were called Argus I, II, III etc. Think he got to V or VI. Others were Pegasus, Romulus  and Remus. He died late last year at the age of 94 and we miss him very much as he taught me everything I know about narrowboats and canals.

I hope he would approve of Pan91!

[Albion]

On 02/07/2019 at 11:26, Catali said:

Thank you all so much for the input! Maybe someone will recognise her on our travels.

 

Hope we’ll meet some of you as well, though marrying up boats, faces along the way etc with you lot (no offence intended at all!) might take a bit of doing. Maybe you’ll give us some clues if we meet!

 

Btw, my Uncle was Peter Goss. I don’t know if any of you remember him? He ran boats out of Cosgrove many decades ago all built, I think, by Colecraft. His own (a series of them) were called Argus I, II, III etc. Think he got to V or VI. Others were Pegasus, Romulus  and Remus. He died late last year at the age of 94 and we miss him very much as he taught me everything I know about narrowboats and canals.

I hope he would approve of Pan91!

Apologies for the late reply, I have been away for a few days. This is quite confusing. The shape of the protruding shell sides either side of the front doors is very Buckle-shell-builder style (not that that shape is unique) but one thing that differs totally from my Buckle build is the position of the gas bottle lockers. On my Buckle boat the front bow nose locker was given over to the water tank (just blacked steel until I got fed up of blacking the interior on a more and more frequent basis and fitted a welded flexible water tank made to my design). The two gas bottle lockers were back against the bulkhead either side of the bow cockpit doors whereas your's are either side of the stern deck doors. It's going to be difficult to identify the shell builder, despite many similarities, never mind the fit out crew.

Roger