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Anyone fitted an electric fuel pump?


Chas78

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Hi All,

Having ran out of fuel :blush: and obviously sucked loads of air in the system i am now finding it very difficult to purge the system i think by fitting an electric fuel pump in the system this problem would be much easier to bleed has anyone fitted an electric fuel pump to their BMC 1500? and if so did you remove the mechanical one i seem to remember Tony B mentioning something on this? thanks in advance ;)

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Just now, RLWP said:

I'd be very surprised if it made any difference, BMC 1.5 engines are just really hard to bleed - even if you crank the engine

 

Richard

My thinking is that instead of trying to pump with the farty lever which seems to pump very little the electric one will shove more fuel in at a faster rate ;)

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Just now, Chas78 said:

My thinking is that instead of trying to pump with the farty lever which seems to pump very little the electric one will shove more fuel in at a faster rate ;)

Yes, I got that. It doesn't change my opinion

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There is a knack to (the) bleeding BMCs

 

Helps to swear a lot whilst bending over the engine pumping the lever. As you do that the fuel from the bleed screws soaks into your clothes.

 

I just open all the bleeds and the injector pipes, pump till I'm well soaked, close bleeds, crank and close injector unions when they have jets of fuel coming out.

 

Swear some more and repeat.

 

What's hard about that?

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Just now, Boater Sam said:

There is a knack to (the) bleeding BMCs

 

Helps to swear a lot whilst bending over the engine pumping the lever. As you do that the fuel from the bleed screws soaks into your clothes.

 

I just open all the bleeds and the injector pipes, pump till I'm well soaked, close bleeds, crank and close injector unions when they have jets of fuel coming out.

 

Swear some more and repeat.

 

What's hard about that?

I use the same technique. Would you like to share a washing machine load?

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24 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

There is a knack to (the) bleeding BMCs

 

Helps to swear a lot whilst bending over the engine pumping the lever. As you do that the fuel from the bleed screws soaks into your clothes.

 

I just open all the bleeds and the injector pipes, pump till I'm well soaked, close bleeds, crank and close injector unions when they have jets of fuel coming out.

 

Swear some more and repeat.

 

What's hard about that?

I don't swear :D

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I can see no reason an electric fuel pump can not be put in series with the mechanical one providing:

1. Its on the tank side of the mechanical pump (in case the electric pump tries to suck air via the mechanical pump'd cap screw or seal).

2. The mechanical pump does not have its strainer or valves clogged with carp.

 

If the little lever on the pump has a lot of slack and only a little stiffer movement the pump is on the front of the eccentric so turn the engine over one full turn.

 

Are you sure you have not clogged up a filter, especially if you have a water trap type filter between tank and pump.

 

Have you dipped the tank. A split dip (suction tube) would give "out of fuel" symptoms and allow the pump to suck air.

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

Are you sure you have opened up ALL the bleed screws?

We will have to differ on that. I would not open the one on the idle damper unless I really had to.

 

if it wont bleed try taking the return pipe (the one on the injector pump closest to the filter) ff at the filter end and cranking the engine on the starter. Be ready to catch a lot of fuel!

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9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I can see no reason an electric fuel pump can not be put in series with the mechanical one providing:

1. Its on the tank side of the mechanical pump (in case the electric pump tries to suck air via the mechanical pump'd cap screw or seal).

2. The mechanical pump does not have its strainer or valves clogged with carp.

 

If the little lever on the pump has a lot of slack and only a little stiffer movement the pump is on the front of the eccentric so turn the engine over one full turn.

 

Are you sure you have not clogged up a filter, especially if you have a water trap type filter between tank and pump.

 

Have you dipped the tank. A split dip (suction tube) would give "out of fuel" symptoms and allow the pump to suck air.

 

 

 

 

So if i put the pump between the water trap and pump that will be ok will this push past the mechanical pump as i was thinking of removing and blanking off? it was running great then revs went up slightly then it died i dipped the tank which was showing about 6 inch on the stick.

 

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

We will have to differ on that. I would not open the one on the idle damper unless I really had to.

 

if it wont bleed try taking the return pipe (the one on the injector pump closest to the filter) ff at the filter end and cranking the engine on the starter. Be ready to catch a lot of fuel!

I actually did that but there seems to be very little coming from the gland nut i am suspecting the fuel pump has seen better days?

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1 minute ago, Chas78 said:

So if i put the pump between the water trap and pump that will be ok will this push past the mechanical pump as i was thinking of removing and blanking off? it was running great then revs went up slightly then it died i dipped the tank which was showing about 6 inch on the stick.

 

I am not going to say that will definitely be OK but I can see no reason it will not be.

 

The rise in revs is indicative of a shortage of fuel but 6" in the tank seems rather a lot for a typical boat. I would expect between 2 and 4 inches. This suggest that you might have something else causing fuel starvation, especially as you are having trouble bleeding it.

 

When did you last suck the water and crud out of the bottom of the tank?

Have you had the water trap apart, especially if it has a filter in it?

Have you checked the sediment trap and stainer that is under most BMC lift pump caps (but not all).

 

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19 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am not going to say that will definitely be OK but I can see no reason it will not be.

 

The rise in revs is indicative of a shortage of fuel but 6" in the tank seems rather a lot for a typical boat. I would expect between 2 and 4 inches. This suggest that you might have something else causing fuel starvation, especially as you are having trouble bleeding it.

 

When did you last suck the water and crud out of the bottom of the tank?

Have you had the water trap apart, especially if it has a filter in it?

Have you checked the sediment trap and stainer that is under most BMC lift pump caps (but not all).

 

I have never sucked water and crud out of the tank all the filters were replaced last year and the sediment trap was also cleaned out i was that sure it was out of fuel i put 50 ltrs in the other day now i wish i hadn't listening to your advice as i now also suspect crud/water may be the culprit :blush:

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16 minutes ago, Chas78 said:

I have never sucked water and crud out of the tank all the filters were replaced last year and the sediment trap was also cleaned out i was that sure it was out of fuel i put 50 ltrs in the other day now i wish i hadn't listening to your advice as i now also suspect crud/water may be the culprit :blush:

What advice was that then?

 

I can find no record of having discussed this with you before unless by email direct to TB-Training and I do not recall any recent posts about 1.5s but I am not on my desktop so we may have discussed it. Remember I cam only work with the information I am given. The less information the poorer the advice is likely to be.

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The advice you gave me earlier about sucking water and crud out of the tank i hadn't thought of that only that it ran out of fuel i will be checking the sediment trap tomorrow and what lies at the bottom of the tank:(

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In my limited experience a diesel stopping due to water-contaminated fuel doesn't rise in speed before stopping, it just slows/falters and stops.

 

I'm inclined to say yours therefore, probably has a blocked filter somewhere or an air leak given the speed rise you mention before it stopped.

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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54 minutes ago, Chas78 said:

So if i put the pump between the water trap and pump that will be ok will this push past the mechanical pump as i was thinking of removing and blanking off? it was running great then revs went up slightly then it died i dipped the tank which was showing about 6 inch on the stick.

 

I actually did that but there seems to be very little coming from the gland nut i am suspecting the fuel pump has seen better days?

Sounds like a clogged filter to me.

Long shot but there is a course filter in the pump top that is often overlooked.

Nothing wrong with using an electric pump but I would advise  not fitting an electric pump in line with the original AC mechanical pump for 2 reasons.

 

1  The pressure will then be higher than spec.

2  If the AC pump develops a leak on the diaphragm the fuel will end up being pumped mainly into the sump and a little out of the breather hole and you will not be aware until it is too late. Wrecked engine or a fire.

 

It will be fine to leave the old pump in place and pipes disconnected but better to make a blanking plate and do away with it altogether.

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Best practise used to to ft a strainer on the end f the pick up pipe. No idea f the OP's has one but even if he has not bug can still block the pick up pipe. It may e a good idea to try to blow back down the pipe into the tank . If you can hear bubbles then the pick up is below the fuel level (probably). if it just hisses the it is pourably not. If you can blow back and you get bubbles you can be sure that at that instant nothing is blocking the pick up.

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22 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Sounds like a clogged filter to me.

Long shot but there is a course filter in the pump top that is often overlooked.

Nothing wrong with using an electric pump but I would advise  not fitting an electric pump in line with the original AC mechanical pump for 2 reasons.

 

1  The pressure will then be higher than spec.

2  If the AC pump develops a leak on the diaphragm the fuel will end up being pumped mainly into the sump and a little out of the breather hole and you will not be aware until it is too late. Wrecked engine or a fire.

 

It will be fine to leave the old pump in place and pipes disconnected but better to make a blanking plate and do away with it altogether.

 

1. Why will that be? The mechanical pump uses a spring to deliver fuel so unless the electric pump has a higher pressure the mechanical pump can not deliver any more. The electric fuel pump pressure will just hold the diaphragm down so the mechanical pump free wheels. Much like they do when connected to a carburettor with a  closed float needle valve.

 

I agree with 2 but think you are overstating the danger. Nothing wrong with the OP fitting them in series to see if it cures the problem.

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Tony, lets see if we can ever agree about anything.

 

Its Thursday, yes?

 

I agree with 1 the spring pressure is constant, but what pressure is the electric pump going to be?

 

The diaphragm will be under constant pressure, they are not designed for this.

Leaking diaphragms are very common on old AC pumps, that's why they sell repair kits, the valves are more reliable.

Oil dilution with fuel is common, I've had 2 cars that had had underbonnet fires due to petrol in the sump. Yes, diesel is less likely but still possible to destroy the engine before the OP realises.

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7 minutes ago, hider said:

Tony, lets see if we can ever agree about anything.

 

Its Thursday, yes?

 

I agree with 1 the spring pressure is constant, but what pressure is the electric pump going to be?

 

The diaphragm will be under constant pressure, they are not designed for this.

Leaking diaphragms are very common on old AC pumps, that's why they sell repair kits, the valves are more reliable.

Oil dilution with fuel is common, I've had 2 cars that had had underbonnet fires due to petrol in the sump. Yes, diesel is less likely but still possible to destroy the engine before the OP realises.

 

 

Oops, wrong log-in!

 

I think you have just busted yourself, Hider Sam!!

 

:giggles:

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40 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Oops, wrong log-in!

 

 Not really, you see we are both on line, me and my DAD! Just using his log in because again he has had an attempt by the phantom password breaker. Getting really fed up with this person. They seem to be able to use any address when they attempt to log in. 

 

Dad is Sam, I'm just a pale image of him, son of Sam sounded a bit off.

40 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

:giggles:

 

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