Confused over licences ?!

[NewCanalBoy]

So a river and canal licence for a 40ft narrow boat is just under 800 pounds.

 

A potential purchase is over near Cambridge on the rivers over there. Looks like it's another licence for around 750 quid - is that right ?

 

Seems a bit bonkers for a small stretch of rivers ?

 

Hope I've missed something !!

[matty40s]

CRT licence for connecting canals,Trent, Severn and some other rivers is the £800,

Environment Agency licence for Eastern rivers,(Nene, Great Ouse, Lark etc) also covers the Thames. 

You  can probably get a Gold licence covering both for about £1k or you  an buy a short term licence from the EA so you can get to the canals.

Edited June 12, 2019 by matty40s

[Machpoint005]

9 minutes ago, NewCanalBoy said:

A potential purchase is over near Cambridge on the rivers over there. Looks like it's another licence for around 750 quid - is that right ?

 

Perhaps it is worth looking at the boat's current licence(s) and you might get a clue?

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, NewCanalBoy said:

A potential purchase is over near Cambridge on the rivers over there. Looks like it's another licence for around 750 quid - is that right ?

 

And you have a (up to) 20 year waiting list for a mooring in Cambridge

 

The waiting list is now closed.

 

From the Cambridge Council website :

 

Our mooring licence waiting lists are currently closed. The expected waiting times are between 2 and 10 years for a narrow-beam boat, and 2 and 20 years for a wide-beam boat – so to manage expectation we are not accepting new applications. The lists closed in 2014 and will remain so until the expected waiting period is 18 months.

[OldGoat]

10 minutes ago, NewCanalBoy said:

So a river and canal licence for a 40ft narrow boat is just under 800 pounds.

 

A potential purchase is over near Cambridge on the rivers over there. Looks like it's another licence for around 750 quid - is that right ?

 

Seems a bit bonkers for a small stretch of rivers ?

 

Hope I've missed something !!

It all depends on what you want to do..

My inference from your wording is that you want to move your potential purchase to another set of waters - perhaps near(er) Kent. In which case a short term licence to get of the Cam, then some form of annual licence elsewhere.

 

OTOH if you are pointing out  that the Cam licence is expensive pro rata - then I agree on the face of it. However each waterway has its own selt of costs that it needs to recover and that may account for some of the disparity? 

[Alan de Enfield]

Cambridge Council even have a waiting list for licensing a new boat on the Cam.

 

Waiting list

• The waiting list for a narrow-beam boat licence [PDF, 34KB] has an estimated wait of up to 10 years
• The waiting list for a wide-beam boat licence [PDF, 17KB] has an estimated wait of up to 20 years

[Machpoint005]

Point of order m'lud - the OP doesn't say the boat is on the Cam. "Near Cambridge" could cover a number of waterways in the Mystic East depending on how near his "near" is. 

 

ETA

From another thread (same OP):

"Potential purchase is around Ely, Cambridgeshire"

So a good chance it's not the River Cam.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Machpoint005

[NewCanalBoy]

Yes it's currently near to Ely. Might stay on the rivers in the East Anglian region for the remainder of this summer/autumn, so won't have to worry about it until next spring when I go CC. Can see now that the Gold ticket is an extra 200 quid or so to cover for what I would need.

 

Cheers

[Jennifer McM]

2 hours ago, NewCanalBoy said:

Yes it's currently near to Ely. Might stay on the rivers in the East Anglian region for the remainder of this summer/autumn, so won't have to worry about it until next spring when I go CC. Can see now that the Gold ticket is an extra 200 quid or so to cover for what I would need.

 

Cheers

Just to add, the Gold License runs from 1st Jan to 31st Dec. I believe if you are applying for a Gold one now, you'll only be paying for just over 6 months. Phone CRT they're really helpful.

[pearley]

34 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

Just to add, the Gold License runs from 1st Jan to 31st Dec. I believe if you are applying for a Gold one now, you'll only be paying for just over 6 months. Phone CRT they're really helpful.

You mean you'll be paying for 12 months but only getting 6 months use.

Edited June 15, 2019 by pearley

[Jennifer McM]

14 minutes ago, pearley said:

You mean you'll be paying for 12 months but only getting 6 months use.

No not at all. You'll just pay for the 6 months, then on 1st January you'll pay for 12 months. You can pay monthly on DD, but you'll lose a small amount for prompt payment.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Jennifer McM

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

No not at all. You'll just pay for the 6 months. 

Sure ?

 

In the months Jan to August you pay for the full 12 month registration (even tho you may only get 5+ month usage)

 

From the EA Website :

 

‘Full rate’ registration charges apply to every boat, except certain visiting boats normally used on other waterways and launches registered on or after 1 September.

All 'full rate' registrations expire on 31 December regardless of when they start (except for visitors); there is no other ‘pro-rata’ rate for part of the registration year. When registering the vessel, the registered owner is responsible to pay the full registration charge. 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/769097/National_navigation_charging_schemes_2019_to_2020.pdf

Edited June 15, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Jennifer McM]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Sure ?

 

In the months Jan to August you pay for the full 12 month registration (even tho you may only get 5+ month usage)

 

From the EA Website :

 

‘Full rate’ registration charges apply to every boat, except certain visiting boats normally used on other waterways and launches registered on or after 1 September.

All 'full rate' registrations expire on 31 December regardless of when they start (except for visitors); there is no other ‘pro-rata’ rate for part of the registration year. When registering the vessel, the registered owner is responsible to pay the full registration charge. 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/769097/National_navigation_charging_schemes_2019_to_2020.pdf

You've got me thinking now... last April we decided to get a Gold license, CRT reimbursed us what was left on our normal license (over £600), leaving us to pay for the full gold one.

 

Apologies for the mis info.  

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

You've got me thinking now... last April we decided to get a Gold license, CRT reimbursed us what was left on our normal license (over £600), leaving us to pay for the full gold one.

 

Apologies for the mis info.  

No problem - another thing to remember is that a Gold Licence is non-refundable.

Pay for the year, and then decide in (say) June to 'give-up' and you don't get any refund.

 

Your home navigation may issue a pro rata refund for full months unused, should you choose to upgrade to a gold licence However, if, you are paying by Direct Debit please contact Canal & River Trust Customer Services Centre, for confirmation of the refund procedure. A Gold Licence is non refundable.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[OldGoat]

A Gold licence is a 'joint venture' between C&RT and EA.

It's calculated on CRT getting it's full rate and what's left over goes to the EA. An excellent deal for canal users but poor value for the EA itself.

I'm guessing that CRT could be flexible internally as to what they allow for their boaters - certainly allowing for a credit on an existing licence, but it doesn't work the other way around for the EA portion.

[pearley]

And from CRT website

 

Gold Licences are non-refundable and only issued for a full calendar year, running from 1 January to 31 December (no matter what point you buy it in the year), but you can transfer it to a new owner on sale, inheritance or any other change of ownership

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, pearley said:

And from CRT website

 

Gold Licences are non-refundable and only issued for a full calendar year, running from 1 January to 31 December (no matter what point you buy it in the year), but you can transfer it to a new owner on sale, inheritance or any other change of ownership

Interesting - particularly as you can no longer transfer a C&RT licence.

 

The argument they use is that they need to know who is the registered owner, and this is achieved by having the licence in the owners name, and, that can only be achieved by cancelling the old licence and issuing an new one.

Otherwise the new owner will not register the sale and just use the boat until the licence expires.

 

Great for the rule-breakers as no one can contact them !!!

 

Maybe they don't REALLY need to know, or maybe only the EA part of the Gold Licence is transferable. 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Jennifer McM]

As the title of this thread suggests, 'Confusion over Licences!

 

Guilty Your Honour!  

 

 

[Kudzucraft]

2 hours ago, Jennifer McM said:

 

Wonder if anyone has written and English to English translation book?

[NewCanalBoy]

Oh that's helpful - so one goes from 1st April onwards and one from 1st Jan onwards ?!

 

So if 'my' boat comes with an EA licence up until the 31st March 2020 and I want to go CC from 1st April onwards whats the best way forward ?!

 

Buy a gold licence 1st April (lose 3 months) or buy new gold licence 1st Jan and get a refunded on EA licence for 3 months (if possible) ?

 

Maybe theres naff all in it in the end...………...

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, NewCanalBoy said:

So if 'my' boat comes with an EA licence up until the 31st March 2020 and I want to go CC from 1st April onwards whats the best way forward ?!

Not sure where that has come from but NO

 

The EA registration and the Gold Licence both start 1st Jan.

 

If it comes with an EA licence and you want to go onto C&RT waters (say for example from the1st July) you could buy a 'short term' C&RT licence and wait until the year end and then buy a Gold Licence starting 1st Jan and covering waters managed by both Authorities.

 

Details on C&RT short term visitors licences :

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/buy-your-boat-licence/short-term-visitor-licences

 

There are also (certainly used to be) the short term licences for 3 or 6 months.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[RLWP]

8 minutes ago, Kudzucraft said:

Wonder if anyone has written and English to English translation book?

They have - it's pants!

[NewCanalBoy]

46 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Not sure where that has come from but NO

 

The EA registration and the Gold Licence both start 1st Jan.

 

Well the EA licence on the Anglian River network starts on the 1st April.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/anglian-waterways-registration-charges

Edited June 15, 2019 by NewCanalBoy

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, NewCanalBoy said:

Well the EA licence on the Anglian River network starts on the 1st April.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/anglian-waterways-registration-charges

 

 

 

Apologies I was looking at the Thames.

The principal still applies - get a short term C&RT licence and then renew with a Gold (1st Jan) licence later.

[NewCanalBoy]

47 minutes ago, RLWP said:

They have - it's pants!

Ha ha !! - BOOM !!

 

Get off his tail-gate !!