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Chargeable mooring on the towpath side


Justin Smith

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5 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

 

I would agree with you, I use it, but the boatyard seemed to be discouraging it, particularly for our lad, though ironically he`s more confident in the water than his mother * ! Too confident actually because whilst walking up the gunwhale did fall in, as mentioned in another thread.

 

* Proud parent alert : 3yr 11 month year old diving to 8ft.

Great video "Proud parent" !!

 

To quote a current TV advert "we are all born 4x4".

Kids seem to have far better balance than us 'wrinklies' do.

Keep 3-point contact at all times and your 'as safe as house'.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

To quote a current TV advert "we are all born 4x4".

Kids seem to have far better balance than us 'wrinklies' do.

Keep 3-point contact at all times and your 'as safe as house'.

Precisely. I was trained by the best as a child of 18 in the 1970s. We were always told one hand for the queen and one for us. In other words whatever happens ensure you have a firm grip. I have never fallen in either at sea on warships, whilst sailing at sea on yachts or indeed in thirty years living aboard or working on boats. Good early training is worth its weight in gold.

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3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Precisely. I was trained by the best as a child of 18 in the 1970s. We were always told one hand for the queen and one for us. In other words whatever happens ensure you have a firm grip. I have never fallen in either at sea on warships, whilst sailing at sea on yachts or indeed in thirty years living aboard or working on boats. Good early training is worth its weight in gold.

Funnily enough, whilst going south through the Hillmorton locks on the morning of the day our lad went in, we got briefly chatting to a boater going the other way, and he said he`d been boating 50 odd years and had fallen in a few weeks previously for the first time. He said it was wet and his foot was on the edge of the gunwhale (where it isn`t grippy), he wasn`t concentrating and in he went.

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1 minute ago, Justin Smith said:

Funnily enough, whilst going south through the Hillmorton locks on the morning of the day our lad went in, we got briefly chatting to a boater going the other way, and he said he`d been boating 50 odd years and had fallen in a few weeks previously for the first time. He said it was wet and his foot was on the edge of the gunwhale (where it isn`t grippy), he wasn`t concentrating and in he went.

Yes that sounds about right. I have to say I practicaly never go anywhere near the gunwhales or the roof. I do nearly always have staff onboard though, its not so easy to avoid danger areas when single handed.

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21 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

We have hired plenty of boats on the Broads none of them with bow thrusters and have managed to reverse them all down narrow dykes without hitting anything or other boats.

 

It isn't rocket science!

 

This year will be the first year we have hired a boat fitted with a bow thruster. It is unlikely that we will use it. We prefer the good old fashioned way of learning how to handle the boat instead.

Teach the child to takes its shoes off at the door. Problem solved.

If a working boat family child brought mud aboard the parental response would not be good!

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2 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

Basically I think one has to get a bit of slack in the rope between you and use the momentum of the boat, though that requires you to have confidence in the rope and the strength of the cleats !

That's why it's called "a snatch", I think. We once managed to get our heavy, deep boat which has been left on the mud with 30cm of normally wet hull showing on both sides by a falling river back floating by attaching a narrowboat to each end and getting the ropes to tighten simultaneously. I was astonished how easy it was.


MP.

Edited by MoominPapa
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On ‎12‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 15:47, TheBiscuits said:

Most of the leases predate CRT by decades - some of them even predate British Waterways! - so it's not a new and growing problem.

I first found this in 1972.  The BWB moorings at Lower Heyford  suddenly became Halcyon Cruisers moorings and I had to pay them.  Those moorings were very useful, right beside the Railway station.

I never noticed the overnight Freightliner trains passing just feet from the boat.

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13 hours ago, Chris Williams said:

I first found this in 1972.  The BWB moorings at Lower Heyford  suddenly became Halcyon Cruisers moorings and I had to pay them.  Those moorings were very useful, right beside the Railway station.

I never noticed the overnight Freightliner trains passing just feet from the boat.

I moored there for a few years on and off. The trains are about twenty or so feet from the mooring lol.

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22 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Its a tough one. Many towns charge for car parking and sometimes shops suffer as people go to towns were parking is free, it certainly happens in this area. Sometimes though people are prepared to pay for the convenience of parking. I dont mind paying for mooring if I am in certain locations that aid me. If a particular mooring is full and a charge is made then it would seem the charge is justified? If I moor in a town or hot spot I will pay as when moving about I tend to moor out in the sticks including on rivers where often no charge is made. I sometimes rock up at a marina for around ten or 13 squids a night as hook up soaks the batteries and there is often stuff to do. Horses for courses innitt.

I do the same, not having a TP I stop in a maina for a night every couple of weeks to hook up, give the batteries a good charge and use my washer/dryer ... as you say most places are around 10-15 quid, although i did book into overwater on the middlewich section which was an eyewatering £24 a night , when i asked why it was so much more than anywhere else i had stopped i was told it was because it is cheshires premier marina! must say though the breakfast was good even at 8 quid :) 

Rick

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1 minute ago, dccruiser said:

I do the same, not having a TP I stop in a maina for a night every couple of weeks to hook up, give the batteries a good charge and use my washer/dryer ... as you say most places are around 10-15 quid, although i did book into overwater on the middlewich section which was an eyewatering £24 a night , when i asked why it was so much more than anywhere else i had stopped i was told it was because it is cheshires premier marina! must say though the breakfast was good even at 8 quid :) 

Rick

? kinell..............

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Just now, mrsmelly said:

? kinell..............

I know! what made it worse was , because everywhere else on the 4 counties and Llangollen was 10-14 quid i hadnt actually asked the price until i went in to pay in the morning, had i know there were 3 other marinas close by I could have stopped at!

Rick

 

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On 12/06/2019 at 15:43, Alan de Enfield said:

They cannot sell off any of the land without approval of Government. (Secretary of State for DEFRA)

they can 'rent' out as much as they wish (don't forget they rent out on-line moorings themselves)

Not so Alan. My own view is that BW never had any right to lease towpath space for private purposes, but at least government specifically enshrined that view within the terms of the Settlement Agreement respecting CaRT, such that SoS approval is also compulsory for leasing towpaths -

 

2.4 The Trustee must obtain the Settlor’s prior written consent before: 2.4.1 disposing of any part of the Infrastructure Property . . .  by way of any leasehold disposal that would have the effect of restricting any generally available public access to the Infrastructure Property existing at the time of the disposal (for the avoidance of doubt the Parties agree that all towpaths are generally available to public access at the time of disposal);

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3 minutes ago, NigelMoore said:

Not so Alan. My own view is that BW never had any right to lease towpath space for private purposes, but at least government specifically enshrined that view within the terms of the Settlement Agreement respecting CaRT, such that SoS approval is also compulsory for leasing towpaths -

 

2.4 The Trustee must obtain the Settlor’s prior written consent before: 2.4.1 disposing of any part of the Infrastructure Property . . .  by way of any leasehold disposal that would have the effect of restricting any generally available public access to the Infrastructure Property existing at the time of the disposal (for the avoidance of doubt the Parties agree that all towpaths are generally available to public access at the time of disposal);

But does that apply to mooring against the towpath? I suspect the intention bebhind that clause was to prevent CRT restricting public pedestrian access along the towpath.

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25 minutes ago, NigelMoore said:

Not so Alan. My own view is that BW never had any right to lease towpath space for private purposes, but at least government specifically enshrined that view within the terms of the Settlement Agreement respecting CaRT, such that SoS approval is also compulsory for leasing towpaths -

 

2.4 The Trustee must obtain the Settlor’s prior written consent before: 2.4.1 disposing of any part of the Infrastructure Property . . .  by way of any leasehold disposal that would have the effect of restricting any generally available public access to the Infrastructure Property existing at the time of the disposal (for the avoidance of doubt the Parties agree that all towpaths are generally available to public access at the time of disposal);

Would that then suggest that all online towpath-side moorings (be they C&RT or others) are illegal ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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32 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But does that apply to mooring against the towpath? I suspect the intention bebhind that clause was to prevent CRT restricting public pedestrian access along the towpath.

There are separate clauses guaranteeing free public access to towpaths by walkers and cyclists; such use would be inclusive within the quoted section, not exclusive of boats wanting access for mooring to the towpath.

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38 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Would that then suggest that all online towpath-side moorings (be they C&RT or others) are illegal ?

I don’t intend to get drawn into argument over this again Alan (not for one minute suggesting that was your intention), for reasons I have given when considering the same issues in previous similar topics over the years. At least: I do not wish to make a personal issue over it – Johnson shot himself in the foot over this when attempting to justify charging for towpath moorings under the new ‘charitable’ regime, his reasoning for which only emphasised for me, that removing free public towpath use was against every legal tenet applicable to every original enabling Act I have ever read, hence - under the 1962 Transport Act as amended following the BW Transfer of Functions Order - forbidden to CaRT and BW, as it was to all their predecessors.

 

That is the legal aspect, but there are pragmatic and ‘humanitarian’ factors to consider when viewing long established practices inherited from the cowboy years. Boaters should doubtless be able to rely on some form of ‘legitimate expectation’ despite that doctrine availing nothing in circumstances where statutory obligations have been flouted (as per Rowlands v EA). CaRT are arguably worse than any predecessor, but can at least now be challenged as to any new proposals under the terms cited.

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4 minutes ago, NigelMoore said:

I don’t intend to get drawn into argument over this again Alan (not for one minute suggesting that was your intention), for reasons I have given when considering the same issues in previous similar topics over the years. At least: I do not wish to make a personal issue over it – Johnson shot himself in the foot over this when attempting to justify charging for towpath moorings under the new ‘charitable’ regime, his reasoning for which only emphasised for me, that removing free public towpath use was against every legal tenet applicable to every original enabling Act I have ever read, hence - under the 1962 Transport Act as amended following the BW Transfer of Functions Order - forbidden to CaRT and BW, as it was to all their predecessors.

 

That is the legal aspect, but there are pragmatic and ‘humanitarian’ factors to consider when viewing long established practices inherited from the cowboy years. Boaters should doubtless be able to rely on some form of ‘legitimate expectation’ despite that doctrine availing nothing in circumstances where statutory obligations have been flouted (as per Rowlands v EA). CaRT are arguably worse than any predecessor, but can at least now be challenged as to any new proposals under the terms cited.

Thank you.

Appreciate the response.

 

I'll take that's as 'in principle yes but no one has challenged it in court'

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

. . .  no one has challenged it in court

Nobody is likely to either - I cannot see any boater having secured a nice towpath mooring bringing a case objecting to its provision, and boaters in general, while possibly grumbling over removal of the public facility, are too supine (or practical?) to take up cudgels in the public interest.

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On ‎15‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 13:01, dccruiser said:

I do the same, not having a TP I stop in a maina for a night every couple of weeks to hook up, give the batteries a good charge and use my washer/dryer ... as you say most places are around 10-15 quid, although i did book into overwater on the middlewich section which was an eyewatering £24 a night , when i asked why it was so much more than anywhere else i had stopped i was told it was because it is cheshires premier marina! must say though the breakfast was good even at 8 quid :) 

Rick

I can see if one own`s the boat and doesn`t want to use one`s own loo or shower, plus charging the batteries is using one`s own fuel, then paying a relatively small amount for overnight mooring might make more sense. But if you`re in a hire boat, particularly one with no shore power facility, and indeed the fuel might be included anyway, then paying to moor up makes less sense.

Given the choice I`d rather moor up miles away from anywhere anyway, the equivalent  of "wild camping" (as it was referred to when we hired a camper van in NZ), though I accept that if one wants to visit the town, for an Indian in this case - that doesn't really work ! 

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On 15/06/2019 at 14:59, Alan de Enfield said:

Would that then suggest that all online towpath-side moorings (be they C&RT or others) are illegal ?

I recall some extremely vituperative discussions about this in the past, with some of the lamented departed getting very heated about it,together with the legal basis for mooring fees for EOG. Really don't want to start that again, it's pointless. Anyway, the way the system is falling apart this year, we'll be lucky if we can even move, let alone park anywhere. 

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1 hour ago, Justin Smith said:

I can see if one own`s the boat and doesn`t want to use one`s own loo or shower, plus charging the batteries is using one`s own fuel, then paying a relatively small amount for overnight mooring might make more sense. But if you`re in a hire boat, particularly one with no shore power facility, and indeed the fuel might be included anyway, then paying to moor up makes less sense.

Given the choice I`d rather moor up miles away from anywhere anyway, the equivalent  of "wild camping" (as it was referred to when we hired a camper van in NZ), though I accept that if one wants to visit the town, for an Indian in this case - that doesn't really work ! 

I do much the same in the main , the odd night moored near a pub for a meal out but the rest of the time I use nice out of the way moorings, the fact i have a massive washer/dryer aboard means every couple of weeks I can wash everything on the boat including all my bedding and towels and doing it once a fortnight even at an average 15 quid a night including electric, means over the boating season maybe 200 quid which to me is well worth it as i dont have an engine suitable for a travelpower, although i did look at installing a diesel genny like a fischer panda or similar, but the cost along with servicing and repair along with fuel far outweighed what i do... but like all things its horses for courses.

 

Rick

Edited by dccruiser
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7 hours ago, dccruiser said:

I do much the same in the main , the odd night moored near a pub for a meal out but the rest of the time I use nice out of the way moorings, the fact i have a massive washer/dryer aboard means every couple of weeks I can wash everything on the boat including all my bedding and towels and doing it once a fortnight even at an average 15 quid a night including electric, means over the boating season maybe 200 quid which to me is well worth it as i dont have an engine suitable for a travelpower, although i did look at installing a diesel genny like a fischer panda or similar, but the cost along with servicing and repair along with fuel far outweighed what i do... but like all things its horses for courses.

 

Rick

 

600W of solar would transform your experience, I suggest, removing your need for hook up to give your batts the "good charge" you mention earlier...

 

 

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