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Chargeable mooring on the towpath side


Justin Smith

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The tax situation depends on HMRC's definitions of 'trading'.

 

For a charity, there are limits on the amount of trading which is allowed before a separate trading company is needed.  However, if the trading company donate the profits or surplus back to the charity, then tax is not charged.

 

For a mutual members' club, activities where the money remains in the club are not treated as trading.  Charging mooring fees to members so that the rent can be paid is one example.  If a surplus is generated, that should be spent on improvements or other club necessary expenses.  Because the money is seen as circulating within the club, this is not defined as trading.

 

So, commercial some of these activities may be but not necessarily taxable.

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We also wanted to stop there to go shopping and lunch in the pub, but would not pay to Moore on the towpath.

so we left, we were in a group of boats and none of us stopped. It was a large loss to the village.

It was a shame as that stretch of towpath was a good overnight stop before the marina was built.

we will never stop there .

Edited by dunfixing
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18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

They cannot sell off any of the land without approval of Government. (Secretary of State for DEFRA)

they can 'rent' out as much as they wish (don't forget they rent out on-line moorings themselves

 

18 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

 

The CRT selling off towpath mooring rights, isn`t that the thin end of a very long wedge ? After all boaters pay large amounts to allow them to use the canals and moorings on the towpaths, in theory, what`s to stop CRT selling off huge amounts to towpath ? It`ll raise funds yes, but also reducing the availability to boaters who pay their licences..... What are the rules or guidelines over how much they can sell off ?

We have a delightful online (towpath side) mooring in a SSSI on The Chesterfield Canal. It is operated by Retford and Worksop Boat Club. These moorings ahve been in existance for over 50 years now so pre-date anything that CRT might be doing by longer than most people's memory!

 

The club operates as a private limited company and they have re-negotiated their lease with CRT in the last couple of years - as have other similar operations in the area.

 

The club has adoped their stretch of the canal and CRT beneft by having a group of boaters who care about that stretch of towpath and the canal in general on their side

 

 

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3 hours ago, dunfixing said:

We also wanted to stop there to go shopping and lunch in the pub, but would not pay to Moore on the towpath.

so we left, we were in a group of boats and none of us stopped. It was a large loss to the village.

It was a shame as that stretch of towpath was a good overnight stop before the marina was built.

we will never stop there .

This is what I was driving at (or rather boating at), the council should, one way or the other, be trying to increase the number of moorings. Either by putting pressure on the CRT, or offering to sponsor some. It brings money into their town, thus it`s an investment in the most straightforward sense of the word.

At the very least it should get the CRT to dredge 50 to 100m of the canal south of the moorings so it is actually possible to moor, albeit using mooring pins etc.

The fact is most boaters don`t want to pay for moorings, and in fact don`t expect to. But, if travelling south it`s a bit irrelevant anyway, because unless you`ve got a bow thruster it`s not that easy to reverse a canal boat back up to the paid for moorings north of the bridge.

Edited by Justin Smith
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34 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

But, if travelling south it`s a bit irrelevant anyway, because unless you`ve got a bow thruster it`s not that easy to reverse a canal boat back up to the paid for moorings north of the bridge.

Its not that difficult if you can drive (helm) a boat.

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41 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

unless you`ve got a bow thruster it`s not that easy to reverse a canal boat back up to the paid for moorings north of the bridge.

This thread just keeps on giving

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41 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

This is what I was driving at (or rather boating at), the council should, one way or the other, be trying to increase the number of moorings. Either by putting pressure on the CRT, or offering to sponsor some. It brings money into their town, thus it`s an investment in the most straightforward sense of the word.

At the very least it should get the CRT to dredge 50 to 100m of the canal south of the moorings so it is actually possible to moor, albeit using mooring pins etc.

The fact is most boaters don`t want to pay for moorings, and in fact don`t expect to. But, if travelling south it`s a bit irrelevant anyway, because unless you`ve got a bow thruster it`s not that easy to reverse a canal boat back up to the paid for moorings north of the bridge.

Why not email CRT and suggest it?

 

If everyone did this then they may well consider it. Locally to our canal the area manager was asking people with local knowledge to suggest places that could be inexpensively tunred into visitor moorings. If everyone who held your opinion of the need for it here did the same it might happen. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Its not that difficult if you can drive (helm) a boat.

Reversing a canal boat is difficult *, which is why you hardly ever see it being done. It`s even more difficult if you`re a hirer who never has the boat long enough to get used to a particular craft`s intricacies.

 

* Reversing a boat with a bow thruster is much easier, but even then I wouldn`t call it easy. We`ve hired a few boats on the Broads with bow thrusters and I had a play reversing them. Incidentally the boat yards were saying the reason they fit bow thrusters is because it greatly lessens the damage done to the boats because it makes them much easier to control. It certainly gives you a lot more confidence knowing you can actually stop the boat (or have it hard astern) and still turn it, and or if another boat comes round the blind bend at the last moment you can get out of the way much quicker.

Bow thrusters are cheating though !

Edited by Justin Smith
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Just now, Justin Smith said:

Reversing a canal boat is difficult, which is why you hardly ever see it being done. It`s more so if you`re a hirer who never has the boat long enough to get used to a particular craft`s intricacies.

We reversed a hire boat from Salford junction to Star City a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't our boat and it had no bowthruster

 

I'm sorry you couldn't find a mooring at Market Bosworth, it seems to have really upset you

 

Richard

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14 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

Why not email CRT and suggest it?

 

If everyone did this then they may well consider it. Locally to our canal the area manager was asking people with local knowledge to suggest places that could be inexpensively tunred into visitor moorings. If everyone who held your opinion of the need for it here did the same it might happen. 

 

I sent an E Mail to Market Bosworth parish council, but they just suggested I get onto the CRT...... Bearing in mind the condition of the Ashby (very shallow and loads of over hanging trees) I took it for granted that the CRT wouldn't have the money to put some more moorings in !

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9 minutes ago, RLWP said:

We reversed a hire boat from Salford junction to Star City a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't our boat and it had no bowthruster

 

I'm sorry you couldn't find a mooring at Market Bosworth, it seems to have really upset you

 

Richard

It did at the time, partly because I`d got myself psyched up for  a lovely Indian but had to make do with beans on toast ! Worse was whilst farting about attempting to moor in the shallow bit beyond the moorings my 6 year old lad accidentally stepped in a load of dog **** and then trailed it all over in the inside of the boat before we found out. I was mad about it, but my wife was apoplectic. If the guilty dog owner had appeared even my mild mannered wife would have had a right go at him (or her) !

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7 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

I sent an E Mail to Market Bosworth parish council, but they just suggested I get onto the CRT...... Bearing in mind the condition of the Ashby (very shallow and loads of over hanging trees) I took it for granted that the CRT wouldn't have the money to put some more moorings in !

The Ashby is a fairly shallow canal but not so shallow that a load of deep draughted historic boats can't troop up there each September for a festival and so while a bit of general dredging probably wouldn't come amiss a bit of spot dredging to create a mooring is a completely different kettle of fish budget-wise so I would never assume anything. 

 

Many of the canals are now being managed by people who are not as familiar with them as the staff in BW days so let's do what we can to point them in the right direction with constructive suggestions 

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3 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

It did at the time, partly because I`d got myself psyched up for  a lovely Indian but had to make do with beans on toast ! Worse was whilst farting about attempting to moor in the shallow bit beyond the moorings my 6 year old lad accidentally stepped in a load of dog **** and then trailed it all over in the inside of the boat before we found out. I was mad about it, but my wife was apoplectic. If the guilty dog owner had appeared even my mild mannered wife would have had a right go at him (or her) !

:D

 

Thanks you for sharing that, we all have days like that from time to time

 

Richard

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3 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

I sent an E Mail to Market Bosworth parish council, but they just suggested I get onto the CRT...... Bearing in mind the condition of the Ashby (very shallow and loads of over hanging trees) I took it for granted that the CRT wouldn't have the money to put some more moorings in !

There is perfectly moorable towpath North of the marina's stretch. You may not get the whole boat alongside, but we achieved a perfectly acceptable overnight mooring for our deep-drafted 60' NB.

 

I too was surprised to see the the mooring price signs, and queried it with CRT: they confirmed that the marina was not taking the pee. 

 

The vegetation was cut back on most of the Ashby a couple or three years back. I wouldn't say it's particularly bad, and to the extent it is, that's a reflection of where we are in the vegetation management cycle for that particular canal.

 

MP.

 

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4 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

Reversing a canal boat is difficult *, which is why you hardly ever see it being done. It`s even more difficult if you`re a hirer who never has the boat long enough to get used to a particular craft`s intricacies.

 

* Reversing a boat with a bow thruster is much easier, but even then I wouldn`t call it easy. We`ve hired a few boats on the Broads with bow thrusters and I had a play reversing them. Incidentally the boat yards were saying the reason they fit bow thrusters is because it greatly lessens the damage done to the boats because it makes them much easier to control. It certainly gives you a lot more confidence knowing you can actually stop the boat (or have it hard astern) and still turn it, and or if another boat comes round the blind bend at the last moment you can get out of the way much quicker.

Bow thrusters are cheating though !

We have hired plenty of boats on the Broads none of them with bow thrusters and have managed to reverse them all down narrow dykes without hitting anything or other boats.

 

It isn't rocket science!

 

This year will be the first year we have hired a boat fitted with a bow thruster. It is unlikely that we will use it. We prefer the good old fashioned way of learning how to handle the boat instead.

4 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

It did at the time, partly because I`d got myself psyched up for  a lovely Indian but had to make do with beans on toast ! Worse was whilst farting about attempting to moor in the shallow bit beyond the moorings my 6 year old lad accidentally stepped in a load of dog **** and then trailed it all over in the inside of the boat before we found out. I was mad about it, but my wife was apoplectic. If the guilty dog owner had appeared even my mild mannered wife would have had a right go at him (or her) !

Teach the child to takes its shoes off at the door. Problem solved.

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5 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

I sent an E Mail to Market Bosworth parish council, but they just suggested I get onto the CRT...... Bearing in mind the condition of the Ashby (very shallow and loads of over hanging trees) I took it for granted that the CRT wouldn't have the money to put some more moorings in !

And a Parish Council would have even less money!

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21 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

I hope it is profit making otherwise it will not survive in the long term, as capital works are needed. What i suspect you mean is non profit distributing. 

I know what I mean. Capital works are the responsibility of CRT under the terms of the lease. The club was formed in 1976 so they've managed so far, the only profit needed is enough to cover the postage on the AGM notices!!! 

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17 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

And a Parish Council would have even less money!

Very possibly, but traders in the town will benefit from any additional moorings, so the council (possibly the next level up) or maybe the local business association, who should be trying to get them, out of self interest.

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11 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

Very possibly, but traders in the town will benefit from any additional moorings, so the council (possibly the next level up) or maybe the local business association, who should be trying to get them, out of self interest.

Its a tough one. Many towns charge for car parking and sometimes shops suffer as people go to towns were parking is free, it certainly happens in this area. Sometimes though people are prepared to pay for the convenience of parking. I dont mind paying for mooring if I am in certain locations that aid me. If a particular mooring is full and a charge is made then it would seem the charge is justified? If I moor in a town or hot spot I will pay as when moving about I tend to moor out in the sticks including on rivers where often no charge is made. I sometimes rock up at a marina for around ten or 13 squids a night as hook up soaks the batteries and there is often stuff to do. Horses for courses innitt.

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18 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

We have hired plenty of boats on the Broads none of them with bow thrusters and have managed to reverse them all down narrow dykes without hitting anything or other boats.

 

It isn't rocket science!

 

This year will be the first year we have hired a boat fitted with a bow thruster. It is unlikely that we will use it. We prefer the good old fashioned way of learning how to handle the boat instead.

Teach the child to takes its shoes off at the door. Problem solved.

Most people find reversing a boat quite difficult as there is no wash over the rudder, and, just to make it even harder you`re looking in the wrong direction compared to how one would normally be steering the thing. It is possible, I`ve done it out of interest when there weren`t any other boats (or people ! ) present, but it wasn`t easy and I wouldn`t really want to try it down a canal particularly if there were boats moored along it so any error resulted in the possibility of hitting someone's pride and joy.

 

I don`t like the thought of bow thrusters on canal boats, but they`d undoubtedly be useful. I can only repeat that when we had boats on eth Broads with bow thrusters I most appreciated the extra confidence they gave me. E.g. if I motored up a narrow inlet and couldn`t turn round (and you can turn round relatively easily in the length of the boat using one) I could reverse all the way out. Also going round bends with overhanging vegetation (which is generally when a boat comes in the opposite direction) one can literally put full reverse on and still steer out of the way at the same time = less stress.

 

"Just teach the 6 year old to always take their shoes off" - would that it were that easy, particularly with our 6 year old.,.....

Incidentally, crew are supposed to be discouraged from walking down the gunwhale, but that means they`re going to have to walk through the boat instead, risky when one has been ashore where ignorants might have been walking their dogs....

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3 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

Incidentally, crew are supposed to be discouraged from walking down the gunwhale,

Is that a 'general' discouragement or just on your boat ?

 

Being active retirees we found it by far the easiest (and quickest) method of getting from (say) back to front, but maybe it depends on your agility / age / capabilities.

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23 hours ago, cheshire~rose said:

The Ashby is a fairly shallow canal but not so shallow that a load of deep draughted historic boats can't troop up there each September for a festival and so while a bit of general dredging probably wouldn't come amiss a bit of spot dredging to create a mooring is a completely different kettle of fish budget-wise so I would never assume anything. 

 

Many of the canals are now being managed by people who are not as familiar with them as the staff in BW days so let's do what we can to point them in the right direction with constructive suggestions 

I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from going up the Ashby, it`s a beautiful canal. It is a bit shallow (but not as bad as the Brecon) which also has the effect of slowing ones progress, so it took us longer than we`d planned to get to the end and back.

Ironically it was on the Coventry canal we got really badly grounded. It was the only time in a dozen or so hires that we had to get towed off by another boat, I really don`t know how we`d have got off were it not for that helpful boater. Funnily enough, earlier the same day (on the Oxford) we got asked to tow another boat off, and failed to manage it. Basically I think one has to get a bit of slack in the rope between you and use the momentum of the boat, though that requires you to have confidence in the rope and the strength of the cleats !

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22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is that a 'general' discouragement or just on your boat ?

 

Being active retirees we found it by far the easiest (and quickest) method of getting from (say) back to front, but maybe it depends on your agility / age / capabilities.

 

I would agree with you, I use it, but the boatyard seemed to be discouraging it, particularly for our lad, though ironically he`s more confident in the water than his mother * ! Too confident actually because whilst walking up the gunwhale he did fall in, as mentioned in another thread.

 

* Proud parent alert : 3yr 11 month year old diving to 8ft.

Edited by Justin Smith
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