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Toilet water pump problem


Felshampo

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4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think you need to differentiate between charging via a single alternator, twin alternators, a single output battery charger or a twin output battery charger.

 

The voltages you gave in post 39 suggests that the charge is form a charger and it is likely to be a Mastervolt one. Most quality marine chargers or inverter/chargers have at least two outputs so would not need any form of charge splitting so in response to post 39 I am not sure Alan's contribution adds much and may very well confuse the issue. What he says abut split charge relays, especially if the charging systems is not optimally wired, would be true for charging from a single alternator but no for charging from a two output  charger.

 

I would want to know if you have a single output charger or a twin output charger (not going to search for a manual). If it is a twin output charger I would doubt there is an automatic change over point as you seem to think it might. It would be much more like two separate chargers (again no detail knowledge of your kit).

 

 

A further point re Alan's post but more for others than yourself. If a single alternator output is wired to the engine battery and the split charge relay is used to charge the domestic bank you will burn the contacts in a VSR just as easily as an ordinary split charge relay, The VSR may also oscillate.

 

Thanks again Tony 

The charger is a MasterVolt combi 2500. So it could well be a split charger. 

Having talked to someone else about this they suggested that the generator could be charging the starter battery. Do they do this or just provide the 240v supply? 

If so that could account for the 14.4v.

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3 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

Thanks again Tony 

The charger is a MasterVolt combi 2500. So it could well be a split charger. 

Having talked to someone else about this they suggested that the generator could be charging the starter battery. Do they do this or just provide the 240v supply? 

If so that could account for the 14.4v.

If I may suggest - You really need someone who can look at, and understand, your particular wiring / systems and sort it out for you.

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8 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

Thanks again Tony 

The charger is a MasterVolt combi 2500. So it could well be a split charger. 

Having talked to someone else about this they suggested that the generator could be charging the starter battery. Do they do this or just provide the 240v supply? 

If so that could account for the 14.4v.

 

The stand alone generator probably has its own alternator to charge its own start battery but maybe the generator is using the engine start battery and then the generator alternator would be charging the start battery. (Unless you are using "generator" to denote a Travelpower unit driven by the engine. If so it would do its charging via the Mastervolt combi-unit - I hope).

 

Normally things like Matservolt combi-units and chargers use an arguably better method of charging in that they may well step up or pulse the absorption charge voltage for a period. This gives a higher charging current for longer than a simple alternator.

 

If the two charging outputs have been connected to the wrong banks then a 10 amp maximum  charge into a large battery bank that is about 3/4 charged may keep it in bulk charge for ages so its back to measuring the current being supplied to the domestic bank.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

The stand alone generator probably has its own alternator to charge its own start battery but maybe the generator is using the engine start battery and then the generator alternator would be charging the start battery.

Has the OP a hard-wired 'installed' (fitted) generator, or is it a 'standalone' suitcase generator ?

 

I must have missed a post as I cannot see where he says it is 'installed' - he just repeatedly refers to 'the generator'

 

If it is a hard-wired generator then your suggestion (connected to the boat starter battery) could be correct (unusual tho.)

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Has the OP a hard-wired 'installed' (fitted) generator, or is it a 'standalone' suitcase generator ?

 

I must have missed a post as I cannot see where he says it is 'installed' - he just repeatedly refers to 'the generator'

 

If it is a hard-wired generator then your suggestion (connected to the boat starter battery) could be correct (unusual tho.)

That is the trouble as it so often is. Lack of detail from the questioner to allow a proper assessment of the situation to be made. Its chicken and egg really, how can someone with limited technical knowledge know what is needed. This is why I think there is merit in your telling him he needs an expert to look at t, and y that I do not just mean the local boatyard.

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18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Has the OP a hard-wired 'installed' (fitted) generator, or is it a 'standalone' suitcase generator ?

 

I must have missed a post as I cannot see where he says it is 'installed' - he just repeatedly refers to 'the generator'

 

If it is a hard-wired generator then your suggestion (connected to the boat starter battery) could be correct (unusual tho.)

Soryy for being ambiguous. The generator is a beta marine installed one. 

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18 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

That is the trouble as it so often is. Lack of detail from the questioner to allow a proper assessment of the situation to be made. Its chicken and egg really, how can someone with limited technical knowledge know what is needed. This is why I think there is merit in your telling him he needs an expert to look at t, and y that I do not just mean the local boatyard.

Had a word with an electrician yesterday and have arranged for him to come and look at my system.

You hit the nail on the head there Tony. I am out of my comfort zone here. I understand the advice being given and once someone shows me what to do I am fine but have limited knowledge of the systems on a narrowboat. 

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4 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

Soryy for being ambiguous. The generator is a beta marine installed one. 

Thanks for the up-date (not many of those installed in NBs)

 

Have you traced the leads from the Generators starter motor to a battery ?

Is that battery incorporated into the Genny ?

Is that battery the MAIN engine starter battery ?

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11 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

Soryy for being ambiguous. The generator is a beta marine installed one. 

That could still be a Travelpower driven from the boat engine. Bets fit Travelpowers to their engines as an option and Travelpowers produce mains voltage.

 

Can you confirm the generator is totally separate from the boat engine and has its own engine attached, probably in a soundproof case.

 

Edited to add that charging with a Travelpower is usually via a mains battery charger and the engine alternator(S) may or may not also be used.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

That could still be a Travelpower driven from the boat engine. Bets fit Travelpowers to their engines as an option and Travelpowers produce mains voltage.

 

Can you confirm the generator is totally separate from the boat engine and has its own engine attached, probably in a soundproof case.

 

1560592089024999260063.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

That could still be a Travelpower driven from the boat engine. Bets fit Travelpowers to their engines as an option and Travelpowers produce mains voltage.

 

Can you confirm the generator is totally separate from the boat engine and has its own engine attached, probably in a soundproof case.

That certainly looks like a separate Genny

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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So the only way that can charge the batteries is via the charger unless it's alternator is connected to the boat's engine start battery. That needs cables tracing so wait for the electrician. This is beginning to suggest it may be a charger fault unless the charger's engine and domestic battery outputs have been transposed, but that's a long shot.

 

Further thought. Those voltage readings strongly suggest to me that the generator alternator is charging the boat engine start battery.

 

 

Edited by Tony Brooks
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On 15/06/2019 at 10:48, Alan de Enfield said:

That certainly looks like a separate Genny

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 15/06/2019 at 11:01, Tony Brooks said:

So the only way that can charge the batteries is via the charger unless it's alternator is connected to the boat's engine start battery. That needs cables tracing so wait for the electrician. This is beginning to suggest it may be a charger fault unless the charger's engine and domestic battery outputs have been transposed, but that's a long shot.

 

Further thought. Those voltage readings strongly suggest to me that the generator alternator is charging the boat engine start battery.

 

 

As a footnote I have now had the electrics thoroughly checked by an electrician. 

Everything was wired as it should be, as expected by you I think. 

The mastervolt was charging as it should at 14.4v during absorption. 

The mastervolt monitor voltage reading for the domestic batteries was  0.5v lower than the actual reading. The monitor is connected across the shunt. 

The solar monitor which was also connected to the shunt is giving the correct reading. 

So possibly after the install of the new batteries the monitor has decided to give a low reading. 

It is possible to do a factory reset but I am not sure this will help. I will do one though just to see I think. 

Interestingly the electrician found that one of the batteries had not been connected! As a result I have put in a complaint to the marina that installed them. 

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30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Glad you are 'sorted'.

Hopefully he took a little time to explain the set-up to you for future use and updates.

A very knowledgeable chap. I learned a lot about my set up. Generator, alternator and inverter. I would thoroughly recommend Ken Wheeler to anyone in the Chester area who needs a mobile mechanic. 

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