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Derek Porteous

Traditional Boats... a sense of entitlement?

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7 hours ago, haggis said:

We asked the occupant of a moored boat there for the festival if they thought it would be OK to stop for a short time and were told that yes it was but if the boat whose allocated mooring it was arrived we would need to move.

There is no concept of moorings being pre-allocated to historic boats attending.

 

The organisers may direct you to a suitable spot on arrival, to try to maximise space usage, and avoid blocking anything, but that space will not have been reserved for any specific boat.

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1 hour ago, roland elsdon said:

No payment for braunston, and chertsey has moved  since we came past . No doubt they will now be accused in the absence of being able to defend themselves of bridge hopping or some

such nonsense

Your post that I replied to said Crick where there is a charge

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Coincidentally we will be going to Braunston the week after the show , hopefully there will be a space and we can stay the balance of the week rather than 48 hrs......

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8 minutes ago, Tuscan said:

Coincidentally we will be going to Braunston the week after the show , hopefully there will be a space and we can stay the balance of the week rather than 48 hrs......

Only if you turn up with a bowler and lacey collared shirts.

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40 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

There is no concept of moorings being pre-allocated to historic boats attending.

 

The organisers may direct you to a suitable spot on arrival, to try to maximise space usage, and avoid blocking anything, but that space will not have been reserved for any specific boat.

That's interesting. Has it always been like that? I am trying to remember how many years ago it was but we were certainly told that boats had allocated moorings and we were told the name of the boat whose mooring we were on and that they were on their way. Can't remember it now of course ? . 

 

haggis

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1 hour ago, haggis said:

That's interesting. Has it always been like that? I am trying to remember how many years ago it was but we were certainly told that boats had allocated moorings and we were told the name of the boat whose mooring we were on and that they were on their way. Can't remember it now of course ? . 

 

haggis

Well I can only spek since 2011, I think, being the first one we took our own boat to, but certainly since then therehas never been allocation of spots to specific attending boats.

 

It is actually very much "first come first served".

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18 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Well I can only spek since 2011, I think, being the first one we took our own boat to, but certainly since then therehas never been allocation of spots to specific attending boats.

 

It is actually very much "first come first served".

Same when I had a pair at the Braunston show in 1999 and 2007 :captain:

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The moorings are not allocated. The lengths are reserved in increasing numbers from the weekend before. Restrictions are taken off asap and any old boats left group and breast up.

event tradition and pragmatism puts boats in certain places. Shockingly given the entitlement of old boat owners some actually like to moor with their friends.

there are also event helpers who moor on the lengths to assist , who have the audacity to moor their modern craft in the same area. Rumour has it they clean and polish their boats are permitted to talk to the owners of old boats.

so same as the 14 day rule on the lengths in winter except the boat move during the period and frequently leave within the 14 day window. Oh and having enjoyed a meal corrupted by diesel fumes from the incessant battery charging on the towpath last night ( dishwashers? Big screen tvs ? Who knows) dont feel the need to run engines all night.

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1 hour ago, James Owen said:

Unless the mooring in question is the disabled mooring just South of Butchers? From memory, always allocated to the Joseph. 

I don't think so - from my memory Joseph is almost always allocated a spot inside the  marina, so is not taking up tow-path space at all.

In recent times the disabled mooring has usually been occupied by a historic boat that i think could legitimately use it at any time, 9though others will of coursebe breasted on the outside of it.

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Very many groups of friends like to meet up, moor together in summer and have bbq's, drinks or simply socialise.

However the majority then move on, after the weekend, rather than abandoning their boats for several days, hogging moorings.

It is the pretence that owners of old boats are acting in this way for the benefit of others, rather than for a simple 'jolly get together' that perhaps grates with some.

But I'm nowhere near Braunston, so it's no great concern of mine this year.

Have a great weekend oldies :)

Rog

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27 minutes ago, dogless said:

Very many groups of friends like to meet up, moor together in summer and have bbq's, drinks or simply socialise.

However the majority then move on, after the weekend, rather than abandoning their boats for several days, hogging moorings.

However it is normal practice to allow boats (of all types) attending organised rallies and gatherings to stay at the site for the week before and after the event.

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3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

However it is normal practice to allow boats (of all types) attending organised rallies and gatherings to stay at the site for the week before and after the event.

At Droitwich the majority of the 48 hour moorings are taken up for about a month around the festival. Nobody complains because without it the festival wouldn’t happen. No historic boats are involved.

 

JP

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2 hours ago, dogless said:

It is the pretence that owners of old boats are acting in this way for the benefit of others, rather than for a simple 'jolly get together' that perhaps grates with some.

So the hundreds / thousands of non boat owners who turn up at Braunston each year for the get no added value from the fact that dozens of historic boat owners have turned up there with their boats, then?

 

They would still turn up and pay their £20 parking charge and benefit the various causes it supports, even if the tow-path was lined with the rows of Clonecraft and Hudsons found there at other times?

 

I think we all know the answer to that don't we!

 

When my boats turn up at an appropriate event it is with the very clear view in my mind that if you own and maintain such a piece of history, it is the right thing to do to exhibit it whenever possible.  You may or may not give a toss about the survival of these boats, but events like this always bring the public out in droves. (You could say we are contributing to "Making life better by water"!)

 

Oh, and by the way, if we do make it this year, which is now unfortunately in some doubt, we will be arriving and mooring up on the Friday evening, and departing again on the Monday morning, so will not be depriving anybody of a mooring except for the duration of the show itself.

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2 hours ago, dogless said:

 

It is the pretence that owners of old boats are acting in this way for the benefit of others, rather than for a simple 'jolly get together' that perhaps grates with some.

 

 

For the vast majority I’m sure you are right, it’s the same for many shows (not just historic) not just Braunston and few would pretend otherwise. However the fact remains the public flock to shows like this , have a good time, spend money go home and in the evening let the boaters enjoy the beer tent. 

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Owners of old boats are perfectly entitled to have a jolly time, and I'm sure they will.

Same as the members of any other cruising club having a jolly with friends.

But please don't try to impress that you do it as a public service :)

Rog

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I honestly don't understand the need to drop the boat into a honey pot spot the week before and then leave it dumped there the week after. As others have said, boats could simply moor up just outside and then shuffle out of the honey pot immediately after. Seems simple to me. Totally understand the reserving of spots just before and during hte event

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5 hours ago, James Owen said:

Unless the mooring in question is the disabled mooring just South of Butchers? From memory, always allocated to the Joseph. 

How does one moor on a disabled mooring? It's easy on an accessible one. 

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18 minutes ago, sirweste said:

I honestly don't understand the need to drop the boat into a honey pot spot the week before and then leave it dumped there the week after. As others have said, boats could simply moor up just outside and then shuffle out of the honey pot immediately after. Seems simple to me. Totally understand the reserving of spots just before and during hte event

Perhaps because the boat owners need to spend the weekdays before and after the event earning a living?

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5 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

How does one moor on a disabled mooring? It's easy on an accessible one. 

Is that like near Hebden Bridge railway station where all the coping stones with rings are lying 2 feet underwater on their sides?

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4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Perhaps because the boat owners need to spend the weekdays before and after the event earning a living?

That doesn't make sense, I mean they could move the boat to within a very short cruise of the hub the weekend before. The arrive at the boat on the Friday evening (I assume; or saturday morning) and do a cruise of minutes to the hub. The Move out of the hub could be done at the end of the even on sunday surely?

 

I personally love industrial history, so really admire people that keep it alive. I personally wouldn't really want to stay in a busy honey pot either. However I don't see the absolute need to clog it up during the busy season for 3 weekend. 

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2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

So the hundreds / thousands of non boat owners who turn up at Braunston each year for the get no added value from the fact that dozens of historic boat owners have turned up there with their boats, then?

 

They would still turn up and pay their £20 parking charge and benefit the various causes it supports, even if the tow-path was lined with the rows of Clonecraft and Hudsons found there at other times?

 

I think we all know the answer to that don't we!

 

When my boats turn up at an appropriate event it is with the very clear view in my mind that if you own and maintain such a piece of history, it is the right thing to do to exhibit it whenever possible.  You may or may not give a toss about the survival of these boats, but events like this always bring the public out in droves. (You could say we are contributing to "Making life better by water"!)

 

Oh, and by the way, if we do make it this year, which is now unfortunately in some doubt, we will be arriving and mooring up on the Friday evening, and departing again on the Monday morning, so will not be depriving anybody of a mooring except for the duration of the show itself.

Yes. Plenty of people do pay money to go to organised boat events that do not have any historic boats in attendance.

44 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Perhaps because the boat owners need to spend the weekdays before and after the event earning a living?

Surely they can do what most other boat owners do and move the boat to a spot where it isn't on a popular visitors mooring. Or shock horror pay for a marina berth until they can come and collect their boat?

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So has anyone actually been denied the ability to moor at Braunston this past week or is this all hypothetical?

 

I did moor my (non-historic) boat on the puddle banks on the approach to Braunston the week before the festival a couple of years ago. It was busy with boats visiting specifically to spectate at the festival which was also my purpose for being there. It would have made little sense to have had early arriving 70’+ plus historic boats mooring on the fringes because they would still have been in the way of other visiting boats who couldn’t legitimately use a 48 hour mooring either. It would certainly have likely stuffed up my plans. Then there would need to be a mad shuffle on the Friday.

 

By far and away the easiest solution is to allow the displaying boats access to the moorings they are to use for the festival on arrival. There’s no incentive to leave your pride and joy moored on the towpath unattended for any longer than is practicable.

 

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg
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I'm late to this party because I've been away docking the Ribble.

I note the calumny from JonathanA, and the noble defence from The Biscuits.

People have obviously described some very bad behaviour from others in historic boats, and there is no excuse for this ; I wonder if it was more memorable because it was historic boats involved?

As I recall, the CRT licensing review showed there were about 19,000 modern boats on the system, and only around 200 claiming "historic discount". There are probably more historic boats than that , but they are still much in the minority, and therefore memorable when seen.

Truly ghastly behaviour aside, I think there must be more to the animosity towards "historics" that seems to surface regularly on this forum. 

As has been mentioned, most owners of historic boats are not professional boaters, and don't pretend to be.Most are not any richer than owners of modern boats, which is why they do a great deal of the work of maintenance and restoration themselves.

Ex-working boats do tend to handle differently from modern boats.When they are loaded, it can be very differently - taking much longer to stop (If they'll stop at all!) in an emergency, or responding to reverse gear by going sideways. They catch the wind when empty, and a Leeds &Liverpool short boat loaded with 30 tons can't just reverse out of a bridge hole because a narrow boat wants to come through.They do need to stay in the channel (if there is one), and people coming the other way would have an easier time if they slowed down, came close and didn't try to give us such a wide berth that they are boating at full throttle through the trees on the offside, or through the lost coping stones and shopping trollies next to the towpath . Failure to understand these realities can easily lead to the mistaken impression of arrogance and a sense of entitlement.

Most owners, I think, have historic boats in the same spirit that people have traction engines (another hobby for the really rich, unless you can do a lot of the work yourself) - and get pleasure from the evident joy people show when they see them.

Sadly, some of the animosity expressed here, I suspect, comes from people who wish they had a historic boat themselves, but don't.Obviously the answer is simple; get one - OK they don't come up for sale very often, but there is a steady supply, and you can sell what you've got at the moment while you're waiting.

Here's a picture of Ribble looking spruce after her recent docking:

IMG_0427.jpg

 

Enjoy. Or if you don't, accept a friendly middle finger to show there are no hard feelings.

Edited by DRP
tidying text
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