Traditional Boats... a sense of entitlement?

[Chris Williams]

2 hours ago, Dav and Pen said:

I have not got involved in this topic as my experience of running our narrow boats is nearly 30 years old when we sold them and had a 50footer built on an old station boat hull at WFBC.

When we first started in the early 70,s there were still a lot of boatmen around especially at Braunston and I had no intention of upsetting them by trying to dress up or by showing off. I admired the Brays, Whitlock,Collins etc and they gave advice and help willingly. Some were working for bwb and lock keepers like Henry Grantham at Buckby would soon put you right but also encourage. There were nowhere near as many boats on the cut and certainly not endless moorer’s on the main line so we were able to make our mistakes out of site (usually) except trying to get round Sutton stop loaded when there would invariably be an audience of experts and Joe and Rose. They of course never did it in a motor. Rose Whitlock then told me there was a pin in the bridge that they used to use to strap round! Not much use single handed though. I’m sure we upset people who thought we were speeding or forcing them out of the channel but unfortunately the physics of moving loaded boats on very shallow canals caused difficulties for all parties. We were told that we were to big, sometimes to slow, or just shouldn’t be on the canal at all but usually other boaters then were happy to see us.

we were certainly not rich indeed quite the opposite and the boats had to pay for themselves which we tried to do by humping coal and carrying Scouts etc in the summer. We were still hopeful that some long distance carrying could be brought back following the demise of the Crowley traffic but apart from odd loads and short distance it never happened.

Now I see the majority of old boats in pristine condition and owned by enthusiastic people who are quite a long way removed from the working boats without the pleasure of seeing the Brays working through the Braunston flight or Mrs Whitlock gently admonishing you for the lack of shine on the chimney brass. We were lucky to know them and I hope we never upset them by pretending to be them which I personally never did.

there has always been a perceived pecking order amongst boat owners whether it be whose hull you have, what engine, how shiny your boat is etc. With the thousands of boats now on the waterways some people will always be in a bad fit for some reason or other so if possible it’s best to let them get on with it and get on with your own lives.

Absolutely my own experience, at the same time.  As you say, we were so lucky to meet those real boaters.

The 'play actors' of today never met them and get their 'experience' from other Actors, or from books, or articles in the canal magazines - some good, some bad.

[Ray T]

1 hour ago, RLWP said:

It is still there, I used it once

 

Richard

One of these two? Many years ago used to hold a roller. Picture from "A Canal People."

[Ray T]

40 minutes ago, Dav and Pen said:

I agree the boating families still love the canals and to see their old boats still going. I hope they continue to do so for many years to come. I am in no way criticising the owners of these old boats I’m only pleased that there are so many willing to devote their time to them.

I love watching the nonchalant ease with which Jim Hambridge steers Cassiopeia, one of his boats from working days, at the Braunston show. Yes the boat is in pristine condition, but I too think it lovely that people are prepared to spend their time and money on them so others can enjoy them as well.

[RLWP]

This one:

 

 

I happened to be there this afternoon

 

Richard

[Mike Todd]

On 12/06/2019 at 11:38, Tuscan said:

Who remembers the reverend on his hotel pair, he set the bar.

 

Having owned converted working boats for 30 years I’m happy to hold my hand up and say I still make mistakes and am still caught out normally when the bottom is to nearthe top. In recent past going through Braunston as boats were leaving the show I was queuing at the bottom lock and let the pair behind me go through as they were travelling together they then left paddles up and gates open all the way up the flight. I think twice before giving way to hobby working boat boaters unless they are loaded.

 

opinionated experts are to be found in all walks of life whether they are volunteers or not. Surely not worth worrying about unless they cause serious inconvenience or risk. 

I thought hobby working boat owners were loaded.  How else do they afford the upkeep?

[Mike Tee]

1 hour ago, RLWP said:

This one:

 

 

I happened to be there this afternoon

 

Richard

That's the one I was thinking about, but the young guy in the old picture is using a pin at shoulder height - mirror image on the other side of the bridge. Probably removed by elf and safety after non-boaters walked into them!

[RLWP]

11 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

That's the one I was thinking about, but the young guy in the old picture is using a pin at shoulder height - mirror image on the other side of the bridge. Probably removed by elf and safety after non-boaters walked into them!

Or rusted off

 

Richard

[Ray T]

9 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

That's the one I was thinking about, but the young guy in the old picture is using a pin at shoulder height - mirror image on the other side of the bridge. Probably removed by elf and safety after non-boaters walked into them!

No, the roller pins are still there, at least they were last Wednesday.

[Steilsteven]

On 13/06/2019 at 19:54, Jim Batty said:

 

 

We also accompanied a real, loaded, working boat through half a dozen locks on the GUC traveling north from Apsley ... whose skipper insisted we leave every set of top gates open as we proceeded. This finally irked us enough to resort to stopping for 'an early dinner' ... and let him continue on his own. And he was off with a snort! 

It shouldn't have irked you as it is the done thing to leave gates open on that canal. 

If it was ''a real, loaded, working boat'' perhaps you should have obliged by humouring him because the closing of gates made his life harder.

 

Keith

[Rob-M]

45 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

It shouldn't have irked you as it is the done thing to leave gates open on that canal. 

If it was ''a real, loaded, working boat'' perhaps you should have obliged by humouring him because the closing of gates made his life harder.

 

Keith

No it isn't.

[roland elsdon]

The leave the gates on the southern gu was still sort of there at the end of the lime juice run, as there were still working boats running pairs. However we used to shut gates there in the 1980s either breasted or running fatboats once the lime had stopped.

[alan_fincher]

3 hours ago, Steilsteven said:

It shouldn't have irked you as it is the done thing to leave gates open on that canal.

 

No.

It WAS the done thing 40 years ago, but now only die hards (including at least one on here) insist on leaving gates open. (Some still argue much of it is river fed, and hence it is not necessary, but regularly low pounds say otherwise).

Standard advice would now be to shut everything up, although it is possible the operator of the boat in question knows which gates never stay shut, and hence takes the sensible decision not to even try.

 

EXCEPT:

There are numerous locks, (at least numbering well into double figures), from Cowroast summit down to at least Cassiobury that are marked as "Leave empty and a paddle drawn", (or similar), and if no other boats are around this should be observed, (even if many the same locks still also sport the standard notice "ensure all paddles and gates are closed when leaving the lock"!).

[fittie]

Things really change in 1976 re closing gates a paddles etc. That was when I was first aware of signs about saving water and close gates etc.

[David Mack]

Leaving bottom gates open on the GU doesn't really matter as they all leak so much due to the damage to the mitre seals from narrow boats using only one gate. Which means that top gates (which aren't affected in the same way) really should be shut to stop water wastage and low pounds.

[Slim]

5 hours ago, Steilsteven said:

It shouldn't have irked you as it is the done thing to leave gates open on that canal. 

If it was ''a real, loaded, working boat'' perhaps you should have obliged by humouring him because the closing of gates made his life harder.

 

Keith

Since when?

[furnessvale]

Reading this thread reminds me of REAL oneupmanship and status claiming.  Look at steam rallies where there is a definite pecking order, starting with showmens engines and finishing with a 1.5" scale model.

 

George

[Steilsteven]

14 minutes ago, Slim said:

Since when?

I see it's already been answered but I will say just this.

The Grand Junction is busy enough not to need constant closing of gates except maybe towards the end of a day.

I don't include times of drought in this nor during the Winter months btw.

 

Keith

Edited June 15, 2019 by Steilsteven

[RLWP]

10 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Reading this thread reminds me of REAL oneupmanship and status claiming.  Look at steam rallies where there is a definite pecking order, starting with showmens engines and finishing with a 1.5" scale model.

 

George

1" scale models - all those Allchins

 

Richard

[furnessvale]

Just now, RLWP said:

1" scale models - all those Allchins

 

Richard

I thought Allchins were 1.5" so there you go, there's always someone to look down on.

 

Anyone got a Mamod? ?

 

George

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, furnessvale said:

Anyone got a Mamod? ?

I used to have but a course of Penicillin cleared it up.

[David Mack]

2 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

I thought Allchins were 1.5" so there you go, there's always someone to look down on.

 

Anyone got a Mamod? ?

 

George

Yes. I still have the Mamod traction engine I was given when I was about 13. Haven't steamed it for years!

[RLWP]

1 minute ago, furnessvale said:

I thought Allchins were 1.5" so there you go, there's always someone to look down on.

 

Anyone got a Mamod? ?

 

George

Of course! There's a hierachy in those too. Mine is a Minor 1 in poor condition

 

I know my place

 

Richard

[Captain Pegg]

Closing gates. Pah! That’s just for “play actors”. ?

[roland elsdon]

1 hour ago, furnessvale said:

I thought Allchins were 1.5" so there you go, there's always someone to look down on.

 

Anyone got a Mamod? ?

 

George

Ha reading your first  post i thought id claim a mamod... you got there first.

Yesterday I unpacked a packing case sent back from australia 7 years ago.  Now displayed in the conservatory is my well used mamod steam loco, log and coal truck. I got rid of all the mint and unused engines rollers steam car and lorry but kept the old battered railway set..

[alan_fincher]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

Leaving bottom gates open on the GU doesn't really matter as they all leak so much due to the damage to the mitre seals from narrow boats using only one gate.

If this were true, surely they would all leak to empty if left full.

Quite a few left emptyand with all gates shut will self-fill quite quickly.

So unless you know which is which, on an individual lock basis, surely it is best to close everything?