Market downturn?

[Psychalist]

Is it me or has the market for second-hand narrowboats got a bit soft of late? I'm pretty sure looking at the duck (UK, all boats page, left-hand-side) for the last couple of years, the number of boats for sale was 600-700, yet this year it has steadily risen IIRC by about 400 since March and currently stands at over 1,100. This includes some under offer and sold but it does seem to be reflected in prices too, with many more in the £30-40k range and quite a few being reduced in price as they're not selling. Whilst I'm sure much relates to confidence in the economy, Brexit etc. maybe the state of the waterways (with 75,000 defects) is also having an effect. Just an observation.

 

/G

[Naughty Cal]

A good boat at the right price will always sell regardless of the "market" conditions or the state of the economy.

 

Same goes for cars and houses.

[Hudds Lad]

could also be down to folk taking the piss with the initial price they want for it

[matty40s]

The wide beam market seems to have hit the buffers, but not the sensible priced narrowboat market.

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

could also be down to folk taking the piss with the initial price they want for it

Surely you mean "allowing room for negotiation"?

[Hudds Lad]

3 minutes ago, Athy said:

Surely you mean "allowing room for negotiation"?

possibly more in the Harry Enfield “i saw you coming” style of pricing

[Bee]

Could be, some might also say that there are simply too many boats on the system now therefore an oversupply. In the winter months I sell canal related stuff to make a few quid (and Euros over the channel) and this year its been impossible to sell anything much at all. I think people now only buy stuff that they really can't do without.

[zenataomm]

I found myself gazing through eBay Boats/Canal & Narrow Boats, which on occasion is good for a laugh.

I noticed a large amount of wide beam, some of which were almost as attractive as shoe boxes in appearance.

[Bee]

1 minute ago, zenataomm said:

I found myself gazing through eBay Boats/Canal & Narrow Boats, which on occasion is good for a laugh.

I noticed a large amount of wide beam, some of which were almost as attractive as shoe boxes in appearance.

I don't understand how a 'boatbuilder' when faced with 20 tons of flat steel plate and presumably some sort of tools can produce something as awful as the average wide beam 'boat'  If anybody ever gifts me one I shall reduce it to a smaller pile of flat steel plate and build it into a proper boat with curves and shape.

[RLWP]

7 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

as attractive as shoe boxes in appearance.

 

 

http://www.carendt.com/small-layout-scrapbook/page-65-september-2007/

 

Richard

[Psychalist]

49 minutes ago, Athy said:

Surely you mean "allowing room for negotiation"?

I suspect given some of the reductions needed to garner interest, the room for negotiation has got a significantly larger but some sellers are in denial having their boats on the market for 12 months or more. I image that is frustrating some for whom the cash is what's left to top up a pension.

[Mad Harold]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

A good boat at the right price will always sell regardless of the "market" conditions or the state of the economy.

 

Same goes for cars and houses.

I think you mean a good boat at a cheap price.There are currently over 1000 boats for sale,and thats just on the Duck!

Looking at the sold listings on e bay,the ones that seem to be selling are the cheap ones,typicaly sub £10k.Most of the others reach the end of their listing unsold.

I  can only speculate as to the reasons for this; market saturation? the number of stoppages? the few buyers around looking for a suitable liveaboard? the large number of people visiting CWF and becoming more cautious and market savvy? thanks to all the information on here.

It could also be just a lull in buying,it happens in many trades.

 

[Onionman]

Local car dealer friend of mine says cars are beginning to stick on his forecourt so he's running down stock. This is how recessions start.

[Kudzucraft]

I have been watching several Brokers and Apollo Duck and I was wondering the same thing. Granted I have only been looking for a few months but it seems to me that boats are staying on the market longer and I am seeing more boats marked as 'REDUCED'. 

[peterboat]

23 hours ago, matty40s said:

The wide beam market seems to have hit the buffers, but not the sensible priced narrowboat market.

 

23 hours ago, Bee said:

Could be, some might also say that there are simply too many boats on the system now therefore an oversupply. In the winter months I sell canal related stuff to make a few quid (and Euros over the channel) and this year its been impossible to sell anything much at all. I think people now only buy stuff that they really can't do without.

And yet New and used boat company are selling lots of widebeams, so maybe its just unrealistic pricing that causes them to stick? As for me having had a narrowboat nothing could persuade me back into one after my widebeam just so uncomfortable and they rock all over the place

[Naughty Cal]

22 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

I think you mean a good boat at a cheap price.There are currently over 1000 boats for sale,and thats just on the Duck!

Looking at the sold listings on e bay,the ones that seem to be selling are the cheap ones,typicaly sub £10k.Most of the others reach the end of their listing unsold.

I  can only speculate as to the reasons for this; market saturation? the number of stoppages? the few buyers around looking for a suitable liveaboard? the large number of people visiting CWF and becoming more cautious and market savvy? thanks to all the information on here.

It could also be just a lull in buying,it happens in many trades.

 

No I don't. I mean a good honest boat, car or house at the right price. That doesn't have to be cheap but neither does is it have to be over inflated.

 

Sensibly priced boats, cars and houses are still selling. It is the over priced rubbish that is sticking around.

[Jess--]

Only a single experience here... our boat sold within 12 days of listing it on the duck at a price that was within our planned wriggle room.

 

2 brokers phoned within 12 hours of it being listed trying to get the boat listed through them rather than direct.

 

6 people expressed interest
1 pulled out before viewing as they put a deposit on another boat

3 never got around to arranging a viewing

1 viewed it yesterday, spent a couple of hours looking around it and nattering with us before putting down a deposit and signing on the dotted line.

1 person got a phone call and was very disappointed

 

feels like a sellers market to me.

 

On the plus side my bank balance is looking healthier  

on the negative side I don't have a boat any more  

[Mike Todd]

54 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

No I don't. I mean a good honest boat, car or house at the right price. That doesn't have to be cheap but neither does is it have to be over inflated.

 

Sensibly priced boats, cars and houses are still selling. It is the over priced rubbish that is sticking around.

But what do you mean by 'over priced'? 

 

The market price is just what someone will buy at (or some would say just under that - depends on the size of the market) Boats may not sell for a variety of reasons, at a given price point, so sellers have to be prepared to adjust to how they find responses. It is a bit one sided since, if you under pitch the price, it is usually quite difficult to hike it up - save for the gazumping times (when were they?) with houses and I have heard very occasional instances with bots but I'd be surprised right now.

[cuthound]

24 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

But what do you mean by 'over priced'? 

 

The market price is just what someone will buy at (or some would say just under that - depends on the size of the market) Boats may not sell for a variety of reasons, at a given price point, so sellers have to be prepared to adjust to how they find responses. It is a bit one sided since, if you under pitch the price, it is usually quite difficult to hike it up - save for the gazumping times (when were they?) with houses and I have heard very occasional instances with bots but I'd be surprised right now.

 

Some people just don't understand that, particularly if they have spent a lot of money on the boat just before selling it.

 

They try to recover this additional expenditure by raising the selling price beyond what the market will bear and refuse to accept lower offers.

 

Unsurprisingly their boat takes a long time to find a buyer and often they are forced to lower the price to sell anyway, finalky They realising that not selling the boat quickly results in them having to pay for licences, mooring, insurance etc for longer.

[Psychalist]

I'm not sure if it's true, but I think more private boats being offered for sale at the moment and many realistically priced. This appears to be giving brokers a reality check, especially some that tend to over-value boats.

 

Having said that, there's will always be the oddity that makes one think - when what appears an overpriced boat sells quickly just proving it is just what people are willing to pay - often down to taste - one man's meat and all that.

 

I feel generally most years demand/supply varies by season where, in early spring there is pent up demand. By this time of year, it fades to a more realistic approach - but perhaps more so this year?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

Some people just don't understand that, particularly if they have spent a lot of money on the boat just before selling it.

 

They try to recover this additional expenditure by raising the selling price beyond what the market will bear and refuse to accept lower offers.

 

Unsurprisingly their boat takes a long time to find a buyer and often they are forced to lower the price to sell anyway, finalky They realising that not selling the boat quickly results in them having to pay for licences, mooring, insurance etc for longer.

Happened to some people we know. They fitted their own shell out and did an amazing job of it, quite stunning using exotic woods and much fancy machining etc. not to mention many hours of work.
Plans changed and they had to sell before using it much. They could get nowhere near the price that they thought it was worth. The average buyer is not interested if the toilet seat is crafted from African Bogwood; they just want a nice boat with a dishwasher for their holidays. 

[Naughty Cal]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Some people just don't understand that, particularly if they have spent a lot of money on the boat just before selling it.

 

They try to recover this additional expenditure by raising the selling price beyond what the market will bear and refuse to accept lower offers.

 

Unsurprisingly their boat takes a long time to find a buyer and often they are forced to lower the price to sell anyway, finalky They realising that not selling the boat quickly results in them having to pay for licences, mooring, insurance etc for longer.

Exactly this.

[Kudzucraft]

So true! Not sure how Real Estate works in the UK but in a past job I Appraised or valued Real Estate for the Mortgage Companies lending money.  We had a legal definition of value and it this "The market price is just what someone will buy at"  is a near perfect summary of the definition.

 

All the time saw people that bought a house, put in a new Heat and Air condition unit when their old one died. Or they put in new flooring, or repaired this and replaced that.  If they spent 10,000 dollars then the house had to be worth 10,000 dollars more. Everyone was convinced every penny they spent added a penny to the value of the house. 

[Chris Williams]

24 minutes ago, Kudzucraft said:

Everyone was convinced every penny they spent added a penny to the value of the house. 

Advertisers have been telling us this for years.  Double glazing,  new kitchens,  coloured bathroom suites,  etc.

It doesn't work like that.   Spend £1000 on your boat and its value will go up by a couple of hundred, if you are lucky.

[RLWP]

5 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Spend £1000 on your boat and its value will go up by a couple of hundred, if you are lucky.

Not so sure about that. It might tip the boat from being unsaleable to something people want to buy, which would be money very well spent