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Monthly Cost Sanity Check


Heffalump

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Hi Folks,

 

Can you help me sanity check a monthly costing please?

 

License: £93 (Based on 70', prompt payment)

Insurance: £17 (Based on £200 annually, quoted on a 1990 boat worth 30k with 5k contents cover fully comp)

Diesel: £100 (Based on liveaboard battery charging, travelling a few miles once a week or fortnight)

Coal: £40 (Based on a couple of bags a week during the winter, supplemented with free wood)

Gas: £13 (Figure pulled out of thin air, expecting to use gas purely for cooking)

Blacking: £30 (Based on 70' every 3 years, although I plan on doing this ourselves, I've costed for having someone else do it as you never know)

BSS: £4 (Based on £150 every 4 years)

Servicing: £5 (Based on oil and filters a couple of times a year)

 

Have I missed anything?  Am I wildly out on anything?  Two of us, both mechanically minded.  I will be putting about £700 into savings each month which will be the BOAT fund so as long as these numbers aren't horrendously wrong I think I'm OK?

 

Heffs

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Figures look fairly reasonable. Gas might be a bit more, but no more than £20 per month. Don't forget other consumables, batteries for example, will need replacement from time to time.

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Just now, Phil. said:

Figures look fairly reasonable. Gas might be a bit more, but no more than £20 per month. Don't forget other consumables, batteries for example, will need replacement from time to time.

Thanks Phil.

 

Yes, batteries, new paint, blown up inverter, colander calorifier etc I was planning to do as and when from the BOAT saving fund!

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For what it is worth, I have been reading everything I can find. Watching the vlogs ect.  and I came up with similar numbers.

 

I worked on a yearly basis and then averaged it at per month. So winter is probably higher and summer.

 

Diesel £ 500
Coal £ 300
Propane £ 140
Blacking £ 300
Phone/internet £ 900
TV lic £ 154.5
Oil, filters, maintenance £ 250
Pump outs £ 0
Moorings £ 0
REPAIRS £ 500
  £  
TOTALS   3044.5
    $253.71 per month
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Depending on the local council if you have a mooring, Council tax as well even if you don't liveaboard as some Councils class boats as second homes, As is the case with the 'Anglia Revenues Partnership' who run things for seven councils in the East of England. Dealing with them is a pain (8 to 10 weeks for a reply) 

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2 hours ago, Heffalump said:

Hi Folks,

 

Can you help me sanity check a monthly costing please?

 

License: £93 (Based on 70', prompt payment) Pretty much defined by your CaRT licence

Insurance: £17 (Based on £200 annually, quoted on a 1990 boat worth 30k with 5k contents cover fully comp) You've got it and happy with it. Sounds mid-range price so about right.

Diesel: £100 (Based on liveaboard battery charging, travelling a few miles once a week or fortnight) - your lifestyle/boat movements will dictate

Coal: £40 (Based on a couple of bags a week during the winter, supplemented with free wood) - your lifestyle will dictate

Gas: £13 (Figure pulled out of thin air, expecting to use gas purely for cooking) your lifestyle will dictate but for cooking only gas bottles do seem to last a good while.

Blacking: £30 (Based on 70' every 3 years, although I plan on doing this ourselves, I've costed for having someone else do it as you never know) - think you are overestimating this. If you can book a dry-dock and DIY then it will be a lot cheaper

BSS: £4 (Based on £150 every 4 years) - Yup

Servicing: £5 (Based on oil and filters a couple of times a year) - Aaaaah, servicing and maintenance. You forgot the paint, new ropes, bashed chimney, blown water pump, split water boot (whatever the hell you call the thing that blew off on me)). Budget more for this for a narrowboat than any other bill if you want to keep a decent boat in top condition, budget half if you want to keep one okay and budget a fraction if you just want to keep it afloat.

 

Have I missed anything?  Am I wildly out on anything?  Two of us, both mechanically minded.  I will be putting about £700 into savings each month which will be the BOAT fund so as long as these numbers aren't horrendously wrong I think I'm OK?

 

Heffs

Your budget, I'm sure, would be enough to keep the boat licensed, in good condition, warm with coal and gas, and with enough diesel to move.

 

If anyone asks me how much it costs to buy a boat I always tell them the question should be how much is it to keep a boat in the water. Last month I probably paid our more on BSS and licence than the boat is worth....but I just enjoy being on the canal, so what else do we do? 

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2 hours ago, Kudzucraft said:

For what it is worth, I have been reading everything I can find. Watching the vlogs ect.  and I came up with similar numbers.

 

I worked on a yearly basis and then averaged it at per month. So winter is probably higher and summer.

 

Diesel £ 500
Coal £ 300
Propane £ 140
Blacking £ 300
Phone/internet £ 900
TV lic £ 154.5
Oil, filters, maintenance £ 250
Pump outs £ 0
Moorings £ 0
REPAIRS £ 500
  £  
TOTALS   3044.5
    $253.71 per month

Not being rude but if phone and internet are budgeted as costing more than maintenance, pumpouts, moorings and repairs combined, we're entering Narnia territory. You can know exactly what a broadband bill will be but when something sounds nasty in the engine bay, is it a few quid or a few months wages to fix?

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13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I too was thinking of pointing out that the occasional unexpected £5k or £10k 'once in a lifetime' bills come at you remarkably often in my personal experience.

With a a forty year old Yam o/b and a GRP hull, I don't think I'll have those problems now!

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When budgeting for blacking add a bit extra to allow for additional repairs while the boat’s out the water. 

I allow £500 for blacking (only 48’) and a further £500 to cover additional bits and bobs. 

 

 

(And paying someone else to black leaves me time to do other work like repainting elsewhere on the boat.)

 

 

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9 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I too was thinking of pointing out that the occasional unexpected £5k or £10k 'once in a lifetime' bills come at you remarkably often in my personal experience.

 

Isn't that because you have 3 boats? ?

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Paying anyone else to do anything at all will cost, if at all possible try to do everything yourself. next birthday present should be a huge box of spanners, screwdrivers, paintbrushes and a heap of sandpaper.

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12 hours ago, BilgePump said:

Not being rude but if phone and internet are budgeted as costing more than maintenance, pumpouts, moorings and repairs combined, we're entering Narnia territory. You can know exactly what a broadband bill will be but when something sounds nasty in the engine bay, is it a few quid or a few months wages to fix?

You guys like to bicker too much!
This is just an ongoing spreadsheet of monthly expenses, not all expenses.

 

BUT:

I don't want a pump out on my boat so,  yes zero.

Our plan is CC so no monthly mooring fee.

Major repairs are not a foreseeable monthly expense. 

I do need to ad some misc expenses in there.

 

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17 minutes ago, Kudzucraft said:

You guys like to bicker too much!
This is just an ongoing spreadsheet of monthly expenses, not all expenses.

 

BUT:

I don't want a pump out on my boat so,  yes zero.

Our plan is CC so no monthly mooring fee.

Major repairs are not a foreseeable monthly expense. 

I do need to ad some misc expenses in there.

 

I'm not wanting to bicker but I would think the CaRT licence is more than a miscellaneous expense and can be budgeted for as a known cost, be that paid monthly or paid annually and put aside each month.

 

I would look at priorities being things like Licence, Mooring (if required, even CCers sometimes need to put into a marina for a few weeks), Insurance, BSS, essential maintenance including engine servicing and blacking to avoid the boat deteriorating, a contingency fund for bigger problems, diesel to move it and provide hot water and electric. Then as much coal, gas, internet and smart stuff as you require and can afford.

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31 minutes ago, Kudzucraft said:

You guys like to bicker too much!
This is just an ongoing spreadsheet of monthly expenses, not all expenses.

 

BUT:

I don't want a pump out on my boat so,  yes zero.

Our plan is CC so no monthly mooring fee.

Major repairs are not a foreseeable monthly expense. 

I do need to ad some misc expenses in there.

 

As mtb said, these non forseeable big repairs do generally occur with a statistically forseeable regularity, if you are using the boat full time then expect two every year and maybe you will get lucky and only get one some years. If you can do almost all maintenance yourself then you only get big bills, if you need to pay somebody else to fix things then expect some huge bills.

 

..............Dave

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27 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

I'm not wanting to bicker.........

 

Sorry, really didn't mean for that to sound like I was aiming that comment at you.

 

Just to be clear my spread sheet  has Yearly Expenses itemized (ie Gold Lic., Insurance, BSC inspection, etc) along with VISA cost, health care, and more. Since the OP was talking monthly expense I just shared the ongoing monthly expense. 

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16 minutes ago, Kudzucraft said:

 

Sorry, really didn't mean for that to sound like I was aiming that comment at you.

 

Just to be clear my spread sheet  has Yearly Expenses itemized (ie Gold Lic., Insurance, BSC inspection, etc) along with VISA cost, health care, and more. Since the OP was talking monthly expense I just shared the ongoing monthly expense. 

No need to apologise, I could have been more diplomatic and I realise that your costs will not be typical of the average UK boat owner. I imagine visa and health cover do not come cheap. I was just trying to emphasise that if we include things like blacking, usually every 3yrs and BSS every 4yrs into monthly calculations then we should look at the cost of boat ownership over a much longer time scale and that must include provision for major repairs. For those of us that couldn't afford an unexpected bill running into thousands, we would have to build up and maintain a contingency fund from month one. The running costs of consumables like diesel, gas, coal, having a TV, washer, having a huge battery bank do not fundamentally affect the integrity of the boat or put you in contravention of CaRT rules should you suddenly cut back on them drastically. Bills related to the boat and keeping it in good condition in the water can be either accurately known and budgeted for or covered by the contingency fund. Bills related to lifestyle and requirements can vary wildly.

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33 minutes ago, Kudzucraft said:

I just shared the ongoing monthly expense. 

The OP actually listed more annual (or even longer term) costs (amortised) than he did 'monthly costs.

 

17 hours ago, Heffalump said:

Hi Folks,

 

Can you help me sanity check a monthly costing please?

 

License: £93 (Based on 70', prompt payment)

Insurance: £17 (Based on £200 annually, quoted on a 1990 boat worth 30k with 5k contents cover fully comp)

Diesel: £100 (Based on liveaboard battery charging, travelling a few miles once a week or fortnight)

Coal: £40 (Based on a couple of bags a week during the winter, supplemented with free wood)

Gas: £13 (Figure pulled out of thin air, expecting to use gas purely for cooking)

Blacking: £30 (Based on 70' every 3 years, although I plan on doing this ourselves, I've costed for having someone else do it as you never know)

BSS: £4 (Based on £150 every 4 years)

Servicing: £5 (Based on oil and filters a couple of times a year)

 

Have I missed anything?  Am I wildly out on anything?  Two of us, both mechanically minded.  I will be putting about £700 into savings each month which will be the BOAT fund so as long as these numbers aren't horrendously wrong I think I'm OK?

 

Heffs

 

I'd suggest that batteries should also be  included (if the likes of blacking is included).Batteries are disposable and classed as 'consumables' (similar to gas and diesel)

My £1600 battery bank will (probably) need replacing every 2 years so amortised that's another £50 month

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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17 hours ago, Phil. said:

Figures look fairly reasonable. Gas might be a bit more, but no more than £20 per month. Don't forget other consumables, batteries for example, will need replacement from time to time.

Yes I agree with that. Batteries cost me about 150 quid a year based on three leisure batteries at 100 quid each which tend to last me two years.
Gas depends; We are using considerably less now since with solar (on suitable days of course) we can use an electric travel kettle and a small microwave, providing common sense is used (these will also run off the genny direct.) Then again, the price of our solar panel installation would buy about 20 or more bottles of gas. 
Money can be saved long term by going for things such as deep cycle batteries, and epoxy or better hull coating, but you need the dosh in the first place. 

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For fuels Heffalump and Kudzucraft have very different monthly figures, but both may be entirely accurate forecasts to cover their requirements.

100 / 40 / 13  (£153) vs.  42 / 25 / 12 (£79) for Diesel / coal / gas  - over £850 pa difference.

 

Start with the reasonably accurately knowns and then try to make an educated guess for those unknown (long term repairs) or variables (fuels). Aggregated out I think that Heffalump's ability to set aside £700 per month and with some practical ability to do the DIY it is a sensible figure to keep a boat of the type he mentions especially if a mooring isn't required. 

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