To Stretch or Not to Stretch

[cheshire~rose]

Please can anyone who has had their boat stretched or has experience of boat stretching share their experience with us? We would love to hear the good, the bad and the unexpected. 

 

We are going around in ever decreasing circles trying to make a decision about whether to replace Carrie~Lou with another second hand boat or not. It has been a very long standing plan to upgrade to a slightly larger boat that is more suited to longer period spent on board once Dave retired but now retirement has arrived we are dithering! 

 

We know that buying second hand will always mean we need to compromise on something and we are willing to do that. The thing is that the more second hand boats we look at the more we realise that we are likely to need to throw some extra money at any boat we buy to get it right for us and then.... what if we are buying a can of worms? 

 

So the pedigree of a boat ought to sort that out and of course certain builders will always be high on the list of boats we might consider but it doesn't really end there does it? A chance conversation with another forum member a week ago highlighted this. They put a lot of research into finding the boat they really wanted and got a lovely boat but it was only once they started using it they realised just how thirsty it is to run - and most of that is because it doesn't swim as well as it ought to and has a prop that is a magnet to anything floating in the water. 

 

Being based on The Chesterfield we are used to weed but rarely struggle with it but other boats covering the same sections as us half a day or a day later give up and turn around saying it is too much hassle! How much of that is because of the boat and how much is because an experienced helm will know when to throw into reverse to stop the problem getting too bad. Doing the BCN Challenge we went down the weed hatch quite a bit but not nearly as often as many boats and one starts to wonder just how much of that is to do with the fact that we have a boat that swims so well. 

 

But then if we stretched the boat would it change the way it swims? (I would expect to stretch in the middle somewhere) Would the engine still be powerful enough for a heavier boat? Bearing in mind we like to nip up and down the tidal Trent fairly often. 

 

How much does a stretch cost? If there are ball park figure per foot? 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

My twopenneth. I wouldnt mess about stretching. The stretched bit will always be newer and mismatched inside and will cost more than the effort involved. When we need to change our boat over the years for size/area/type we simply sell. Every boat has sold very very quickly with zero hassle and another been bought the same way. All boats are a compromise and this one is brilliant as a liveaboard. Ive had rougher and posher but at the end of the day no boat will ever be precisely what you want for ever even when we had a new build it wasnt perfect as our views changed. Buying and selling is a simple process so just sell and buy. For instance we started looking for our present swop on monday evening and I visited it at 11 on tuesday and paid for it at twenty past. The wife didnt see it till the friday when we went to move it. Fab boat. Our first boat had been stretched from 42 to 57 and was underpowered but it did look ok as the interior was refitted.

Edited June 2, 2019 by mrsmelly

[roland elsdon]

Yep what he said

brexit into a different boat.

stretching means old and new steel, where to cut and shut, reballasting, engine issues electric gas water line replacement.

unless the hull is superb and you need a new interior it aint worth it

[peterboat]

I had mine stretched it made the boat perfik for me, Johnathon Wilson did it and he made the boat in the first place. The bigest problem i suppose is where to insert the stretch, for me it was easy and could only go in one place. I would say that I bought my boat to stretch it whereas others realise that things have changed and more room is required to make the boat fit the bill. Now if a new engine will be required as well, I would change the boat as it will more than likely work out cheaper

[cheshire~rose]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Snip < The stretched bit will always be newer and mismatched inside and will cost more than the effort involved>r was refitted.

The stretched bit would most likely be the galley which is tired and has never been to my taste anyway. The additional space would give us a dinette which is something we both want. 

We are fairy sure the selling bit will be no problem, it's finding the boat we want to buy that is. Perhaps we need to look at a lot more!

 

One of the problems is that very few boats that are advertised give the headroom and Dave being 6'3" he simply doesn't fit into many boats 

3 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Yep what he said

brexit into a different boat.

stretching means old and new steel, where to cut and shut, reballasting, engine issues electric gas water line replacement.

unless the hull is superb and you need a new interior it aint worth it

It is a Pinder hull which have a great reputation (Black Prince use them) and it's the way it swims that makes it superb. Yes - the bit of the interior where we will stretch is tired anyway and in need of some upgrading - at least new cupboard doors, hob and tap at the very least (for me anyway) 

[roland elsdon]

You need a town class. Our headroom is nearly 6’4 and the floor is not straight to the bearers. 

[peterboat]

5 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

The stretched bit would most likely be the galley which is tired and has never been to my taste anyway. The additional space would give us a dinette which is something we both want. 

We are fairy sure the selling bit will be no problem, it's finding the boat we want to buy that is. Perhaps we need to look at a lot more!

 

One of the problems is that very few boats that are advertised give the headroom and Dave being 6'3" he simply doesn't fit into many boats 

Sounds like you want to keep the boat, and if a refit is required, its not a bad way to make the boat just right for you, especially given the head room requirement.

Go see Steve and the man that does the steelwork at Stanilands Thorne, I am sure it would be up their street

Edited June 2, 2019 by peterboat

[cheshire~rose]

4 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Sounds like you want to keep the boat, and if a refit is required, its not a bad way to make the boat just right for you, especially given the head room requirement.

Go see Steve and the man that does the steelwork at Stanilands Thorne, I am sure it would be up their street

 

I suppose it is inevitable that we have become a bit attached to this boat but the really odd thing is that it was never meant to be kept past his retirement. Dave bought the boat with his now ex-wife and he made certain compromises on the boat he really wanted so that she also got the boat she wanted. The thing is the boat that Dave and I would have chosen together would not have been this one and many of the things he compromised on for her would not be a compromise for me. We have much more similar taste. 

 

I suppose what has happened is that each time we look at a boat for sale we see the stuff we need to do to make it right and so with a boat that has been so good to us why not just make that right? I am starting to appreciate everything that is good about this boat a lot more! 

 

If we did get a stretch we already have in mind who we would want to do it. Our neighbour had a very bad experience at Stanilands so they would not be on the radar for us. 

[Tumshie]

@Martin Kedian has a thread where he discusses boats he's stretched. 

 

 

Vickie and Tony Reptiles have stretched their boat THE WATCHMAN. 

 

 

 

Martin Kedian Replies to Vickie's post so that is worth a read.  

 

There are one or two forum members who are incredibly good welders and have built their own boats from scratch, they might also be worth getting in touch with ?

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Tumshie

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, cheshire~rose said:

 

I suppose it is inevitable that we have become a bit attached to this boat but the really odd thing is that it was never meant to be kept past his retirement. Dave bought the boat with his now ex-wife and he made certain compromises on the boat he really wanted so that she also got the boat she wanted. The thing is the boat that Dave and I would have chosen together would not have been this one and many of the things he compromised on for her would not be a compromise for me. We have much more similar taste. 

 

I suppose what has happened is that each time we look at a boat for sale we see the stuff we need to do to make it right and so with a boat that has been so good to us why not just make that right? I am starting to appreciate everything that is good about this boat a lot more! 

 

If we did get a stretch we already have in mind who we would want to do it. Our neighbour had a very bad experience at Stanilands so they would not be on the radar for us. 

I have only dealt with Steve and found his work great, the steelworker worked for Johnathon and worked on my stretch he always seemed very good, but that was at Sheffield, so firsthand experience is the way forward, hope it all goes well whatever you choose to do

[matty40s]

10 foot stretch ( normal length addition) would be 10k with interior extension, factor bigger galley and dinnette, maybe a bit more.

If done properly, (streethay, Stenson, Kedian, paul barber, etc) it would add value to the boat slightly, but always have that (has it been done correctly) question.

The boat would be unlikely to swim worse, and additional length may make it slightly better, being less affected by water tank/other tanks full/empty status.

I have seen many stretched boats, some you struggle to see the joints without looking carefully,....the 10ft is a good clue.

You know CarrieLou, the big question to ask is did Postcode want a real engine originally, and does Cheshire Rose want one now, if yes, buy a different boat, if Carrie can fulfil your dreams together with some internals, get a stretch.

 

[LEO]

Hi,

The boat which moors next to mine was stretched a few years ago by a well known firm in Braunston, Work was completed quickly and the result is brilliant. It really is impossible to see that lengthening work has been carried out. If I wanted a longer boat stretching is the route I would choose.

[koukouvagia]

9 hours ago, LEO said:

Hi,

The boat which moors next to mine was stretched a few years ago by a well known firm in Braunston, Work was completed quickly and the result is brilliant. It really is impossible to see that lengthening work has been carried out. If I wanted a longer boat stretching is the route I would choose.

...and another boat on the same mooring was lengthened by Roger Farringdon as well.  On this boat a new long tug style deck was added with a rather elegant fore-end.

[Bee]

Stretching or shortening or whatever is not really about the steelwork (well it is but someone else will do that for you) There are commercials and ex commercials all over the place that have been cut and shut for any number of reasons. The tricky part is all the gubbins inside. If you can cope with that then go ahead. (I would)

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Bee said:

Stretching or shortening or whatever is not really about the steelwork (well it is but someone else will do that for you) There are commercials and ex commercials all over the place that have been cut and shut for any number of reasons. The tricky part is all the gubbins inside. If you can cope with that then go ahead. (I would)

 

Totally agree, the steelwork is the easy bit and just the start of it.

 

I had a long chat with TonyReptiles about something else recently but we also discussed his boat stretch. Now it's done, he said it was so much trouble and grief he would never do it again, he would swap boats. The steelwork by (I think) Streethay was fine, it was all getting all the other stuff done that went on for ever and was so difficult to get done correctly that caused all the grief. 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

Assuming someone else is doing all the work, rather than you tackling some of the refit yourselves, I struggle to believe that it will not cost you far more overall than selling and buying an alternative.

Unless you are really attached to the current boat, I would sell,and look very hard for the closest match you can find to your ideal wish list.  Even if you then have to spend a bit to make a few changes, I reckon it will still likely leave you significantly less out of pocket.

What is the current length?  By how much would you stretch it?  What is the current engine, and how much extra power do you feel it has, if it needed to push, (and stop) a heavier longer boat?  I have known people who have stretched a boat, thinking the engine would still be fine, but who subsequently had to change it.  If you get to that situation the economics can become ridiculous.

Also don't forget that for a stretch you will likely be paying all costs (licence, moorings, insurance, etc) to own a boat that you can't actually use for the duration of the work.

[Mad Harold]

Stretching a boat seems an expensive and troublesome way of gaining more room.

Selling your boat and buying another would be easier,however,I do understand your hesitating to do this. Buying a boat is fraught with dangers. You can have your prospective boat surveyed inside out,but like taking up with a new woman,you don't know what you have got untill you have lived with her for a year.

I wouldn't have bought my present boat (not at the price I paid at least) because of all the faults that I discovered in the first year of ownership,that were not found on the survey.

If you are well endowed (with money) then a stretch would be ok,if it is done by skilled people and the really labour intensive part, the fit out,is done by equally skilled people.

Good luck whichever route you take.

[David Mack]

Kedian's prices:

http://www.kedianengineering.co.uk/prices.html

[MtB]

39 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Also don't forget that for a stretch you will likely be paying all costs (licence, moorings, insurance, etc) to own a boat that you can't actually use for the duration of the work.

 

Which reminds me of that old boating maxim, any work you have done will take twice as long as your longest possible estimate, and cost twice as much as your highest possible estimate.

 

Not quite true in my own personal experience though. I'd suggest a factor of three is more realistic. 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

14 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Kedian's prices:

http://www.kedianengineering.co.uk/prices.html

I fInd the straight "£95 per foot" pring quoted for a stretch most odd.

 

Surely much of the cost is labour, and there clearly isn't 10 times as much labour for a 10 foot stretch as there is for a 1 foot stretch.

 

I'm guessing Martin would not actually be prepared to stretch a boat just 1 foot for £975!

Edited June 3, 2019 by alan_fincher

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I'm guessing Martin would not actually be prepared to stretch a boat just 1 foot for £975!

 

ISTR mentioning this point to Martin on here when he first published his price list. 

 

He said he would not consider any stretch less than 6ft (ISTR), even if the customer was will to pay the price of a 6ft stretch. Or it might have been 5ft. 

 

He did not say why, but perhaps very short stretches are more trouble than longer ones.  

 

[Tumshie]

8 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I'm guessing Martin would not actually be prepared to stretch a boat just 1 foot for £975!

 

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

He said he would not consider any stretch less than 6ft (ISTR), even if the customer was will to pay the price of a 6ft stretch. Or it might have been 5ft. 

I can't find now but I do remember someone saying that they wanted their boat stretched by a very specific amount and Martin (I think) saying something about 6ft being the minimum amount they would do. 

 

Found it the chap wanted to add 6ft and Martin explains the figures and numbers here. 

 

 

 

I definitely spend far too much time reading old threads that I can remember all this stuff. 

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

 

I can't find now but I do remember someone saying that they wanted their boat stretched by a very specific amount and Martin (I think) saying something about 6ft being the minimum amount they would do. 

 

Found it the chap wanted to add 6ft and Martin explains the figures and numbers here. 

 

 

 

I definitely spend far too much time reading old threads that I can remember all this stuff. 

 

 

No, I think you spend about the right amount of time. We would all have to learn use the search ficility otherwise

 

In the thread you found, Martin joined in at Post 70 saying yes he will stretch a shorter amount than his minimum 8ft, but by quotation only as the steel sheets come in 8ft lengths and extra work is involved in cutting them down for the shorter stretch, and cutting the boat in half is the same work regardless of the length of stretch.

 

 

[Tumshie]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

We would all have to learn use the search ficility otherwise

To be fair while I remembered enough to know what I was looking for, and though I am a bit of a natural finder, I would be lying if I said I found that without any rummaging around. ?

 

However I did also find this in the hunt for the above thread - I think this could be called an extreme stretch. 

 

 

 

[cheshire~rose]

Thanks everyone for the replies, I have been busy doing a car shuffle to get home for a couple of days so was unable to reply until now but I really appreciate everyone's input. 

 

I had searched through and read many of the threads that have already been shared before posting. I tend to think with so many new members joining this forum over a year there is always a possibility of someone with some different experience to share.

 

If we were to go down the stretch route I think it unlikely we would go anywhere other than Paul Barbers to get it done. There are of course other perfectly good boatyards around who we would probably be equally as happy with but Paul's yard is as handy logistically as any for us as any can be when a tidal river in involved and having been s closely involved with the amazing work he did on Python I know it is a boatyard we can trust implicitly - not just to do a really fine job but also to offer great advise to steer us in the direction of what is right for the boat and for us. 

 

I think more compromise might be required on the second hand boat. I think there are too many we are not even looking at because there is some box they don't tick on paper. 

 

I picked up on a lovely boat on brokerage today that I thought was worth viewing but it is a reverse layout and "somebody" dismissed it because they won't consider a reverse layout. I went to throw the particulars away that I had picked up and he looked at them and agreed it is possibly worth looking at. I think maybe we need to do the newby thing and go to Wilton and look at 20 boats so we can re-evaluate the priorities