Boat down in lock

[TheBiscuits]

*shrugs*  The stone ledge in that lock is potentially lethal

 

We have reported the protruding stonework in that lock three times to CRT in different years.  A friend of ours hung in it three years ago (very experienced CC liveaboard).  We prevented a hireboat hanging in it 2 years ago by taking charge of the lock and altering the water flow.  We prevented a private boat from hanging in it last year by kicking the cabin top hard enough to rock them free of the protrusions.

 

This year a boat has snagged and sunk.  We were not there so could not do anything.

[Ange]

5 hours ago, zimzim said:

So when I said 'no, they are not [told about procedure when hung-up in a lock], and it's a really good point. I think most would just freeze and watch the disaster unfold. '

I should have added a caveat like 'In my experience' or 'I'm sure there are occasions when...'.     (I knew there was a reason why I don't post on here).?

This is based on hiring boats from all sorts of places since the 1970's (anyone remember Clubline Cruisers at Swan Lane in Coventry?)

BUT

I think the real problem may be that this advice forms part of that basic 'how to do a lock' briefing that might only be part of handover for a first-timer-boater (not repeat offenders)?

I suspect that anyone who has been on a boat holiday before might not get this safety advice repeated?

Certainly, first timers I have spoken with in locks know all about avoiding the cill, but that's about as far as it goes.

There's an awful lot to take in for a complete novice confronted with a bloody great boat that they are expected to drive away in a few minutes! I sometimes wonder how long it can be allowed in these times of health and safety obsession.

Yes to Clubline Cruisers in Coventry - our first hire holiday in 1987. I dug up a thread I started a wee while ago

?

[Pete of Ebor]

19 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Or maybe boaters need to keep a proper eye on their boat when locking, and in particular, GET OFF THE BOAT.

 

Had the boat gone down, you may well not have been here to post that.

 

Yes, I realise that, and I agree that it's the people operating the paddles that should be keeping an eye on the boat. There's not much the steerer (..or anyone else on the boat..) can do once the boat is snagged.

[matty40s]

13 hours ago, MoominPapa said:

Yes. The one at lock nine needed RWLP pressing on the paddle board with a long shaft whilst I wound with both arms to get it back down. That's not typical though.

I guess I should amend my observation, a paddle MAY not drop by lifting the pawl in an emergency.

There's a lot of potential energy released by dropping the contents of a lock through 10 or 12 feet, and most of it gets transformed into kinetic energy of moving water.  Mooring on pounds that are a quarter of a mile or so long and watching from the side hatch is instructive. The result of one lock emptying reflects back and forward along the pound multiple  times. as the water sloshes backwards and forwards.

 

MP.

 

Best illustrated on Buckby locks between 9 and 10, 10 and 11. If you are trying to open the top gates of the lower locks, you can save some strength by watching the wave come down and as it bounces back, the gate usually opens much easier.

[Rob-M]

Many years ago my parents boat got caught on a lock side rising in a lock, as my dad tried to rapidly wind down one of the hydraulic drum paddles the windlass came off the spindle and hit him in the face. We were fortunate he saved the boat but he needed a hospital visit to sort his face out.

As JP posted above, trying to wind the Aston and Farmer's Bridge paddles down to stop the butty was hard work.

[Iain_S]

4 hours ago, Pete of Ebor said:

Yes, I realise that, and I agree that it's the people operating the paddles that should be keeping an eye on the boat. There's not much the steerer (..or anyone else on the boat..) can do once the boat is snagged.

What anyone on the boat can do is make sure that the personel on the lock side know that something is wrong. The steerer will (or should) notice any hang up below the water line before it is evident to anyone not on the boat. Conversely, of course, the paddle operators are better placed to notice some potential problems before the boat hangs up.

[bizzard]

And all to pay attention with no arseing about on smart phones whilst locking, which I reckon have something to do with these accidents. 

[Chris Williams]

4 hours ago, bizzard said:

And all to pay attention with no arseing about on smart phones whilst locking, which I reckon have something to do with these accidents. 

But I want to take a piccy of our boat sinking...

[Tumshie]

54 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

But I want to take a piccy of our boat sinking...

At this point not taking a piccy ain't gonna make that boat any less sunk. ?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Just now, Tumshie said:

At this point not taking a piccy ain't gonna make that boat any less sunk. ?

...but then it ain't going to sink it any worse than it is

[dccruiser]

I have just been around the 4 counties and spent a couple of weeks on the Llangollen ... 8 out of 10 boats i met at locks were hirers and although there are a lot of very capable hirers there were also a lot that didnt have a clue and were going through their very first lock blissfully unaware of the dangers, their training had consisted of either watching a video or being shown with a model lock , both of which they had totally forgotten by the time they reached the real thing. So a lot of my time was taken up explaining the dangers and the responsibilities of the crew, it really was absolutely frightening they had been let out like that, but i guess it will keep happening until there is a fatality where the family sues the hire company for irresponsibility, if such a thing could be proved.

 

Rick

[Bee]

I have never sunk a boat in a lock but I would imagine that getting the stern on the cill does for most boats (I have caught the bow on the cill whilst going down a lock backwards) then probably getting the bow caught on the top gates and then getting caught on ledges on the sides. The so called 'sacrificial edge' could be the culprit here. That bit of the bottom that sticks out is just an easy way of welding the side onto the bottom and I wonder if it should exist at all?, A rounded edge makes far more sense. I don't suppose it will ever happen as it would cost money but there is no boaty need for that sharp edge, its just an easier fabrication thing.

[TheBiscuits]

33 minutes ago, Bee said:

The so called 'sacrificial edge' could be the culprit here. That bit of the bottom that sticks out is just an easy way of welding the side onto the bottom and I wonder if it should exist at all?, A rounded edge makes far more sense. I don't suppose it will ever happen as it would cost money but there is no boaty need for that sharp edge, its just an easier fabrication thing.

I disagree.  The sacrificial edge is to protect the weld seam from hammering and scraping along rocks, trolleys etc under the water.  I know that @Martin Kedian (amongst other good boatbuilders) sometimes add a length of bar on worn edges to further reinforce and protect the joint.

 

Picture by Kedian:

 

 

If you have an older boat, you will find that it is one of the things a good marine surveyor will always check and comment on.  This is particularly true of boats built with thinner plate - my baseplate was 1/4" (6mm) plate when built, and some of the little springers were 5/32" (4mm).

[Chris Williams]

5 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

The so called 'sacrificial edge' could be the culprit here. That bit of the bottom that sticks out is just an easy way of welding the side onto the bottom and I wonder if it should exist at all?

Anything that sticks out from the side of the hull (apart from proper rubbing strips) is almost guaranteed to get hung up sooner or later.

I wonder how many 'welders' have any certification.  Normally this document is valid for a limited period (usually for two years), after which the welder must be retested.  Welders must maintain a log to demonstrate they have maintained their Qualifications.

[Jennifer McM]

You don't have to have a protrusion on your boat, nor a protrusion on a lock wall to get hung up...... we were hung up by floating log. 

 

Almost a year ago to the day ... we were sooooo lucky!

 

 

[Chris Williams]

1 hour ago, Jennifer McM said:

You don't have to have a protrusion on your boat, nor a protrusion on a lock wall to get hung up...... we were hung up by floating log. 

 

Almost a year ago to the day ... we were sooooo lucky!

 

 

You should have been on the BCN, late sixties.  Planks, railway sleepers, old doors - all soaked in black oil.

[Jennifer McM]

1 minute ago, Chris Williams said:

You should have been on the BCN, late sixties.  Planks, railway sleepers, old doors - all soaked in black oil.

Good job I didn't, I probable would have survived that