bigcol Posted May 26, 2019 Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 When having a sea boat I always had to use Antifoul, I imagine all sea boats do. diferent types but antifouling all the same. since being on the canal net work, all boats or more or less all boats use blacking of some sort. now our boat has antifoul on it, and has been in the canal for near on 9 months and not showing any growth on the bottom, where other boats being in the same amount of time has quite a lot. Is it tradition for using blacking or a preferred way, because it seems to be using antifoul is a better product?? so why aren’t newly built canal boats painted with black dark antifoul by choice?? col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted May 26, 2019 Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 Just now, bigcol said: When having a sea boat I always had to use Antifoul, I imagine all sea boats do. diferent types but antifouling all the same. since being on the canal net work, all boats or more or less all boats use blacking of some sort. now our boat has antifoul on it, and has been in the canal for near on 9 months and not showing any growth on the bottom, where other boats being in the same amount of time has quite a lot. Is it tradition for using blacking or a preferred way, because it seems to be using antifoul is a better product?? so why aren’t newly built canal boats painted with black dark antifoul by choice?? col If your boat has 'come from the sea' have you checked your anodes ? You need Zinc anodes for salt water and Magnesium anodes for fresh-water. Zinc will give you much less protection in fresh water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted May 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said: If your boat has 'come from the sea' have you checked your anodes ? You need Zinc anodes for salt water and Magnesium anodes for fresh-water. Zinc will give you much less protection in fresh water. Hi Alan Yep the boat had zinc on, but I had six magnesium put on as soon as we could. It seems as though I done somthing right 1st time thanks col 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted May 26, 2019 Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 And an antifowl to dtop ducks pecking at the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer McM Posted May 26, 2019 Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 1 minute ago, bizzard said: And an antifowl to dtop ducks pecking at the boat. Now I'm not sure if this is true or a joke.... ? If it stops the bl**dy ducks disturbing the dog at 4 in the morning.... I want some! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil2 Posted May 26, 2019 Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 There are several reasons why narrowboat owners tend not to use antifoul, the main one is that a narrowboat owners main concern is rust prevention not weed growth on the hull. Boats that travel at higher speeds are more concerned with the drag effect of weed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 26, 2019 Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 Antifoul is toxic, not to much problem in the open sea but not the best idea for still enclosed waters 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted May 26, 2019 Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 12 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: Antifoul is toxic, not to much problem in the open sea but not the best idea for still enclosed waters Not so much these days (since the EU got involved in it) There were EU proposals to make illegal DIY application of anti-foul. The EU introduced gradually more restrictive regulations in 2003, 2009 & 2012. This was published in September 2017 The British Coatings Federation’s Marine Coatings Group (MCG) remains concerned that there is some confusion within the UK leisure boat industry regarding the current and future availability of antifouling paints for protecting yachts and boats. This note is intended to provide clarity on the key legislation currently affecting antifouling paints (the Biocidal Products Regulation (EU) No.528/2012 (BPR)). The objectives of this legislation are to ensure that antifouling paints with the appropriate quality and performance remain available on the European market, and that these may be used safely by informed DIY painters, with minimum impact on the environment. Whilst proving to be a complicated and expensive process for antifouling paint manufacturers, we trust that the objective will be achieved if industry, users and regulators work together. Under the BPR, all antifouling paints need to undergo an Authorisation process in the coming years, as they are classed as Biocidal Products (products containing biocides with biocidal claims attached to them). The deadlines for submitting applications varies according to the type of biocide(s) used in the paint. The submission involves presenting a “dossier” of information, detailing the effectiveness, stability and possible human and environmental impacts of the paint, to one of the appointed “Competent Authorities” in the EU (for example, the Health and Safety Executive in the UK). Users of antifouling paints are encouraged to seek expert advice (from manufacturers and chandleries / retailers) as to the most suitable product to be used on their craft, depending on use and location (studies and articles in the trade press have also provided detailed information on this). The submission deadline for those paints which are based on copper flake and other already- approved biocides (these are the majority of antifouling paints currently available on the European market) was 31st December 2017. Note that there are some paints out in the market which are based on other forms of copper and/or other biocides that are still to be approved under the BPR. Whilst the biocides (also known as ‘active substances’) are still under evaluation by the authorities these paints may continue to be sold without restriction. The equivalent deadline for the submission of the dossiers for these paints is expected to be several years’ away, and will be confirmed through the legislation relating to the active substance approval, once this is published. To summarise: The industry and the regulators are working hard to make the implementation of the Biocidal Products Regulation a success The future situation with regard to this Regulation post-Brexit is not known at this time Antifouling paints have not been banned Copper-based antifouling paints have not been banned Antifouling paints containing co-biocides (‘booster’) biocides have not been banned Some antifouling paints have been withdrawn over the past 12 months, and are no longer legal Additional products may have to be withdrawn as the BPR evaluation procedure continues over the coming years Some new products have been introduced to the market to replace the withdrawn products Manufacturers should be able to provide written confirmation of the status of their products to retailers and customers, in particular whether their product was subjected to the December 2017 deadline and whether it is still legally-available for sale Any products for which such a confirmatory statement is not forthcoming should be challenged, and the authorities notified – the BCF are able to assist with this reporting of illegal paints Further information on antifouling paints, including best practice guidance and the BCF’s DIY Safe Antifouling initiative, may be found at the following website – www.safeantifouling.com 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil2 Posted May 26, 2019 Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 I think the toxicity argument carries little weight, the second most important reason is probably the cost. Antifoul paint must be at least twice as expensive as blacking and I guess wears off quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrybsmith Posted May 26, 2019 Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 If the boat is a fibreglass cruiser, for goodness sake don't black it. Antifoul may actually be anti-fowl and stop ducks as its the weed that the ducks are pecking isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted May 26, 2019 Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Jennifer McM said: Now I'm not sure if this is true or a joke.... ? If it stops the bl**dy ducks disturbing the dog at 4 in the morning.... I want some! A shotgun is also quite effective! Howard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bod Posted May 26, 2019 Report Share Posted May 26, 2019 At ducks from the inside, I foresee difficulties....... Bod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzucraft Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 I have wondered this too. I also wonder why bitchumen over an oil based paint? Is there some advantage to bitchumen? Speaking of which, in the States legislation has made it to where most paint is now water based. Not always easy to find good quality oil based paints. Is that the same in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 If the boat is grp it wants to be antifoul. If it is steel which I suspect it is then you can use either. If it has antifoul on it already I would be tempted to stick to that otherwise you will have to strip it off before you apply blacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.i Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 21 minutes ago, Kudzucraft said: I have wondered this too. I also wonder why bitchumen over an oil based paint? Is there some advantage to bitchumen? Speaking of which, in the States legislation has made it to where most paint is now water based. Not always easy to find good quality oil based paints. Is that the same in the UK? Not sure who puts bitumin on over oil based paint but that is not the way it should be done. I scrape and wire brush my hull down to bare metal then apply 4 coats of bitumin based blacking over a period of some days. Some have said that they apply red oxide or some other underoat but my understanding is that bitumin paint doesn't stick too well then. Having said that it comes off pretty easily along the water line in our diesel ridden canals and marinas and needs to be reapplied along that area long before two years is up. Best way is two pack I suppose or Zinger whatever that is. I haven't tried either of those though. And yes we are going the way of absolute rubbish water based paints in this country. It is getting more and more difficult to find oil based paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 On 26/05/2019 at 16:28, Neil2 said: I think the toxicity argument carries little weight, the second most important reason is probably the cost. Antifoul paint must be at least twice as expensive as blacking and I guess wears off quicker. Depends on the type of antifoul paint used. The soft eroding type wears off to reveal a fresh surface of copper. The semi hard and hard type dont wear off but leach supply of copper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzucraft Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 4 hours ago, pete.i said: Not sure who puts bitumin on over oil based paint but that is not the way it should be done. OK, difference in the use of US vs UK English. What I was trying to ask is why use bitumen INSTEAD of oil based paint. Did not mean apply it over oil based but I totally see why you thought that is what I meant. I figured water based was becoming the normal there too. I build kayaks and there is only one brand of oil based paint readily available and very limited selection of colors. I can order it from a few companies but the cost plus shipping it getting prohibitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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