Seeking advice in planning our first narrowboat /canal trip

[Phoenix_V]

Does it have to be a canal, the Thames is very nice, its got the lot all in a relatively short distance, Towns (think Oxford, Henley, Marlow) pubs (expensive but good) and scenery (Goring gap, Cookham etc)

[IanD]

15 hours ago, smwhitaker said:

Thanks, Tumshie   I just requested their brochure and joined their email list.  Do you have any experience with this company?  Reviews of hireboat companies are difficult to find and I have read some unpleasant accounts of some companies.

As others have said, Shire are good -- we've had several holidays with them (one-way Manchester to Sowerby via HNC, L&L from Barnoldwick, HNC/Rochdale ring) and have enjoyed all of them -- but we like lots of locks, having four or six on the boat, and travelling most of the time.

 

Since it'll be your first time, I assume there's only two of you, and you don't now how much fun you'll find locks or how many hours a day you want to travel, I'd suggest not doing a ring where you have to get a certain distance in a certain time. Given your likes of places/pubs/food my suggestion would be to start from the Shire base at Barnoldswick and go as far as you want to in half the time, then turn back -- in a week you should get to Rodley, but if you don't it's not a problem. There are lots of lovely villages/towns/pubs/scenery, enough locks (and swing bridges) to stop it being boring but not so many as to become a chore. Skipton is great, then you've got Bingle 5-rise, Saltaire...

 

The other big advantage of the L&L is that it's far less crowded than canals like the Oxford or Llangollen, traffic levels are about 4x lower in summer IIRC.

 

P.S. Shire do some 10/11 day hires as well, doing the Rochdale/HNC ring in 7 days with more than 200 locks would have been even harder work...

Edited May 25, 2019 by IanD

[smwhitaker]

53 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

Does it have to be a canal, the Thames is very nice, its got the lot all in a relatively short distance, Towns (think Oxford, Henley, Marlow) pubs (expensive but good) and scenery (Goring gap, Cookham etc)

We would prefer canals.  We have been to London several times - and love it - but want a different experience this time.

[smwhitaker]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

As others have said, Shire are good -- we've had several holidays with them (one-way Manchester to Sowerby via HNC, L&L from Barnoldwick, HNC/Rochdale ring) and have enjoyed all of them -- but we like lots of locks, having four or six on the boat, and travelling most of the time.

 

Since it'll be your first time, I assume there's only two of you, and you don't now how much fun you'll find locks or how many hours a day you want to travel, I'd suggest not doing a ring where you have to get a certain distance in a certain time. Given your likes of places/pubs/food my suggestion would be to start from the Shire base at Barnoldswick and go as far as you want to in half the time, then turn back -- in a week you should get to Rodley, but if you don't it's not a problem. There are lots of lovely villages/towns/pubs/scenery, enough locks (and swing bridges) to stop it being boring but not so many as to become a chore. Skipton is great, then you've got Bingle 5-rise, Saltaire...

 

The other big advantage of the L&L is that it's far less crowded than canals like the Oxford or Llangollen, traffic levels are about 4x lower in summer IIRC.

Thank you, IanD.  Yes it will just be 2 of us and as you said, we don't know how much we (rather I) will like the locks.  I think we'll want leisurely traveling so I've abandoned the ring idea.  Thank you for your suggestions about starting at Barnoldswick.  I couldn't tell from the Shire website which base would be best for a 7-10 day route.  Saltaire has been recommended by others but I can't find it on a Shire map so haven't found yet which canal it is on.  Thank you again.  Ordering a Nicholson guide for that area today  

[8 Hairy Feet]

1 hour ago, Señor Chris said:

Apart from Barnoldswick, which is in Lancashire.

 

Hehe... This is true, but so near to God's Own County that it basks it the glory that is Yorkshire?

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, smwhitaker said:

Thank you, IanD.  Yes it will just be 2 of us and as you said, we don't know how much we (rather I) will like the locks.  I think we'll want leisurely traveling so I've abandoned the ring idea.  Thank you for your suggestions about starting at Barnoldswick.  I couldn't tell from the Shire website which base would be best for a 7-10 day route.  Saltaire has been recommended by others but I can't find it on a Shire map so haven't found yet which canal it is on.  Thank you again.  Ordering a Nicholson guide for that area today  

Shire's main base is at Sowerby Bridge on the Rochdale Canal, not on the Leeds and Liverpool, but they also use Barnoldswick.

 

https://www.shirecruisers.co.uk/routes/leeds-liverpool-canal-routes-east.php

 

This boat would suit you if it's available...

 

https://www.shirecruisers.co.uk/narrowboat/cambridge.php

 

P.S. Get a Pearson's guide too, much more readable (and funny!) with more interesting information than Nicholson's. For up-to-date information on pubs and restaurants both are useless given how often these change, checking online (beerintheevening, whatpub, Google maps, tripadvisor) is much better.

Edited May 25, 2019 by IanD

[Phoenix_V]

14 minutes ago, smwhitaker said:

We would prefer canals.  We have been to London several times - and love it - but want a different experience this time.

The Thames isn't all in London!

[smwhitaker]

11 hours ago, 8 Hairy Feet said:

Shire are a good company to use, they actually take you through locks when you first start. They have 2 bases one at Sowerby Bridge, one at Barnoldswick (Barlick). The boats are good and well equipped. Also,its Yorkshire... So a win, win situation. 

I might be a little biased. ?

8HF

Thank you, Senor Chris!

4 hours ago, Tumshie said:

I did a little search for Shire Cruisers and came across quite a few people who have used Shire who thoroughly enjoyed their holiday and highly recommend them. They're mostly lots of little comments made in passing so it seems a bit impractical to post links to them, but I will post a link to the search results. Quite a few regular members here, like 8HF, seem to have used them regularly before they got their own boat or because they haven't got a boat at the moment, and they all seem to think highly of them. 

 

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/search/&q="shire cruisers"&search_and_or=or&sortby=relevancy

 

If you want to do a search for anything you find interesting the search teacher at the top right of the page is pretty accurate. 

 

Another hire company that might be worth a look are Floating Holidays, I'm not quite sure how far out they cover, and I haven't been on one of their holidays myself but they are a relatively new family run business, who seem a really lovely couple. 

 

https://www.floating-holidays.co.uk

 

 

Wonderful!  Thank you Tumshie!!  

2 hours ago, Dyertribe said:

Pearsons Guides are also available, I prefer them to Nicholson’s 

Thank you.  I've heard about Pearsons also but bought Nicholson's for my first guide because they have a 2019 edition and I've read a lot about some info re: pubs and other establishments being out of date in older versions

[smwhitaker]

8 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

The Thames isn't all in London!

Yes, of course!  My mind automatically associates Thames with London.  Still learning   

13 minutes ago, IanD said:

Shire's main base is at Sowerby Bridge on the Rochdale Canal, not on the Leeds and Liverpool, but they also use Barnoldswick.

 

https://www.shirecruisers.co.uk/routes/leeds-liverpool-canal-routes-east.php

 

This boat would suit you if it's available...

 

https://www.shirecruisers.co.uk/narrowboat/cambridge.php

 

P.S. Get a Pearson's guide too, much more readable (and funny!) with more interesting information than Nicholson's. For up-to-date information on pubs and restaurants both are useless given how often these change, checking online (beerintheevening, whatpub, Google maps, tripadvisor) is much better.

Great info, thank you, IanD!

[howardang]

1 hour ago, 8 Hairy Feet said:

Hehe... This is true, but so near to God's Own County that it basks it the glory that is Yorkshire?

I was born in Thornton-in Craven, Yorkshire and the 2 nearest towns were Earby & Barnoldswick  both of which  at that time were definitely in Yorkshire. It was a sad day when the dark side took them both and in my mind they will always be in Yorkshire, no matter what the bureaucrats now say!

 

Howard

Edited May 25, 2019 by howardang

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, Phoenix_V said:

Does it have to be a canal, the Thames is very nice, its got the lot all in a relatively short distance, Towns (think Oxford, Henley, Marlow) pubs (expensive but good) and scenery (Goring gap, Cookham etc)

Seconded - I hesitated to suggest my local waters as the original question was quite specific about the 4-counties ring, but as inevitably the topic has moved away from that request.

THere aren't many (2?) NB hire boat companies on the River and few other companies that offer cruiser type boats. I assume that the OP has some experiece of the latter in his warm home waters, thus a NB should provide an interesting diversion.

Apart from the Thames' heaps of history and varied architecture, the various 'watering holes' (restaurants, pubs) are distanced conveniently within practicable daily cruising range - coupled with the fact that you can make a better speed between overnight stops if delayed / poorly planned itinary.

In particular Oxford is well worth spending a day to visit the Ashmolean, Science, Natural History, Bates music and last but emphaticly not least the Pitt Rivers museums are all world leaders. Many of the colleges are open to visitors and if you are not fazed by a bit of religeon it's worth attending a service of Choral Evensong with lots of choral and organ music. You can sit within choir stalls and join in, if you will, or just let it wash over you. All free!

The University 'goes down' in the third week of June - so visit before then.

Abingdon and Walingford have nice old town centres, Reading hasn't (but the old goal and courts mebe worth a quick visit)

Henley is mostly about the atmosphere from the River as is Marlow

Windsor the castle, Eton (opposite) some nice buildings and the College

Staines and Maidenhead - hmm

Hampton Court - the palace.

There is a good book available - now soewhat out of date "The River Thames Book" by Chris Cove-Smith

 

Both the canals and the Thames have a lot to offer - but are different each to each

 

Edit: Whoops - missed your earlier comment about London - for me London begins at Hampton Court, and certainly above Windsor the scenery and attitude are more relaxed

Edited May 25, 2019 by OldGoat

[IanD]

1 hour ago, smwhitaker said:

Thank you, Senor Chris!

Wonderful!  Thank you Tumshie!!  

Thank you.  I've heard about Pearsons also but bought Nicholson's for my first guide because they have a 2019 edition and I've read a lot about some info re: pubs and other establishments being out of date in older versions

They're out of date in the newer versions too in many cases -- even if they're correct today, they might not be by the time you go on holiday... ?

 

I suggest asking on this forum nearer the date, many people will be willing and able to give you up-to-date and honest opinions on places ?

Edited May 25, 2019 by IanD

[smwhitaker]

57 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Seconded - I hesitated to suggest my local waters as the original question was quite specific about the 4-counties ring, but as inevitably the topic has moved away from that request.

THere aren't many (2?) NB hire boat companies on the River and few other companies that offer cruiser type boats. I assume that the OP has some experiece of the latter in his warm home waters, thus a NB should provide an interesting diversion.

Apart from the Thames' heaps of history and varied architecture, the various 'watering holes' (restaurants, pubs) are distanced conveniently within practicable daily cruising range - coupled with the fact that you can make a better speed between overnight stops if delayed / poorly planned itinary.

In particular Oxford is well worth spending a day to visit the Ashmolean, Science, Natural History, Bates music and last but emphaticly not least the Pitt Rivers museums are all world leaders. Many of the colleges are open to visitors and if you are not fazed by a bit of religeon it's worth attending a service of Choral Evensong with lots of choral and organ music. You can sit within choir stalls and join in, if you will, or just let it wash over you. All free!

The University 'goes down' in the third week of June - so visit before then.

Abingdon and Walingford have nice old town centres, Reading hasn't (but the old goal and courts mebe worth a quick visit)

Henley is mostly about the atmosphere from the River as is Marlow

Windsor the castle, Eton (opposite) some nice buildings and the College

Staines and Maidenhead - hmm

Hampton Court - the palace.

There is a good book available - now soewhat out of date "The River Thames Book" by Chris Cove-Smith

 

Both the canals and the Thames have a lot to offer - but are different each to each

 

Edit: Whoops - missed your earlier comment about London - for me London begins at Hampton Court, and certainly above Windsor the scenery and attitude are more relaxed

Great information here, OldGoat.  Thank you.  We have been to Oxford, Hampton Court and Windsor.  In fact we met on a university trip to England almost 35 years ago and these are some of the places we visited, and London and Stratford-upon-Avon as well (where we saw 7 plays in a week - fabulous).  I have considered returning to these sights for our anniversary trip but thought these sights would be much more crowded in the summer than the 4-Counties area I have been researching (and now the Pennines too).  I really don't want to be a tourist this time if that makes sense.  But your post does make it sound so inviting...

25 minutes ago, IanD said:

They're out of date in the newer versions too in many cases -- even if they're correct today, they might not be by the time you go on holiday... ?

 

I suggest asking on this forum nearer the date, many people will be willing and able to give you up-to-date and honest opinions on places ?

Good points, thank you

[Iain_S]

1 hour ago, smwhitaker said:

(snip)

Thank you.  I've heard about Pearsons also but bought Nicholson's for my first guide because they have a 2019 edition and I've read a lot about some info re: pubs and other establishments being out of date in older versions

They're often out of date in the new versions too 

[OldGoat]

12 minutes ago, smwhitaker said:

Great information here, OldGoat.  Thank you.  We have been to Oxford, Hampton Court and Windsor.  In fact we met on a university trip to England almost 35 years ago and these are some of the places we visited, and London and Stratford-upon-Avon as well (where we saw 7 plays in a week - fabulous).  I have considered returning to these sights for our anniversary trip but thought these sights would be much more crowded in the summer than the 4-Counties area I have been researching (and now the Pennines too).  I really don't want to be a tourist this time if that makes sense.  But your post does make it sound so inviting...

Good points, thank you

Not wishing to belabor the point (after all other folks may find this thread of interest in the future) BUT -

approaching the city from the river (or the canal for that matter) it's much quieter. As soon as you get away from 'the High' and the immediate Broad Street it suddenly gets much quieter and you're mixing with the students - not the tourists. We moor at East Street, walk past the station hang a right and left, suddenly you're in peace and quiet until you have to cross the main road and duck down past the town hall and navigate down the side streets past Merton College.

Enough!

[smwhitaker]

4 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Not wishing to belabor the point (after all other folks may find this thread of interest in the future) BUT -

approaching the city from the river (or the canal for that matter) it's much quieter. As soon as you get away from 'the High' and the immediate Broad Street it suddenly gets much quieter and you're mixing with the students - not the tourists. We moor at East Street, walk past the station hang a right and left, suddenly you're in peace and quiet until you have to cross the main road and duck down past the town hall and navigate down the side streets past Merton College.

Enough!

Good to know, thank you.  I was hoping that my post here would help me narrow down my choices and decisions but on the contrary, I have many more options now to consider.  The research and planning is half the fun so it's all good  

[IanD]

1 hour ago, smwhitaker said:

Good to know, thank you.  I was hoping that my post here would help me narrow down my choices and decisions but on the contrary, I have many more options now to consider.  The research and planning is half the fun so it's all good  

In my experience, the big difference between the canals and the rivers in England is that you're much closer to and more involved with things on the canals, they're more intimate than the rivers. Operating locks yourself is part of the charm of canals, and there are many more places to stop -- and in particular, more nice pubs -- than on the rivers. You could also justifiably say that travelling by narrowboat on the English canals is rather a unique experience, whereas a cruiser on the rivers is very much like anywhere else.

 

Having travelled on stretches of rivers like the Avon and the Thames, I've found them rather boring in comparison with the canals -- less to see because of high banks, and less visibility of "normal" England and its industrial history. But maybe better if you enjoy looking at the back gardens of big expensive properties with "keep off" and "no mooring" signs...

 

I'm sure other people will disagree though ?

Edited May 25, 2019 by IanD

[smwhitaker]

30 minutes ago, IanD said:

In my experience, the big difference between the canals and the rivers in England is that you're much closer to and more involved with things on the canals, they're more intimate than the rivers. Operating locks yourself is part of the charm of canals, and there are many more places to stop -- and in particular, more nice pubs -- than on the rivers. You could also justifiably say that travelling by narrowboat on the English canals is rather a unique experience, whereas a cruiser on the rivers is very much like anywhere else.

 

Having travelled on stretches of rivers like the Avon and the Thames, I've found them rather boring in comparison with the canals -- less to see because of high banks, and less visibility of "normal" England and its industrial history. But maybe better if you enjoy looking at the back gardens of big expensive properties with "keep off" and "no mooring" signs...

 

I'm sure other people will disagree though ?

Thanks for sharing your experiences, IanD.  I would have thought there would be more to do and more places to stop on a river than a canal.  And I was thinking about being on a narrowboat on the rivers, not a cruiser so yes, that's a totally different experience.  Good info.

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, smwhitaker said:

Thanks for sharing your experiences, IanD.  I would have thought there would be more to do and more places to stop on a river than a canal.  And I was thinking about being on a narrowboat on the rivers, not a cruiser so yes, that's a totally different experience.  Good info.

A narrowboat on a river is the worst of both worlds -- you get the disadvantages of a narrowboat (basically a narrow steel box with all the hydrodynamic qualities of a brick, not really designed for river cruising) without seeing the charms of the environment it was designed for. If you're going on the rivers get a fibreglass cruiser -- wider, usually quieter when doing more than 4mph, easier to steer in currents. But as I said, you could do this anywhere -- the USA, Canada, France, Germany...

 

One reason there are fewer places to stop on English rivers -- apart from large parts of the banks being privately owned and inaccessible -- is that they need to be proof against flooding so have much higher banks than canals, where the constant water level makes it much easier to have adjacent things like pubs, and where the towpath means you can stop and get off anywhere that isn't too shallow to get the boat close to the bank.

 

I think you'll find a narrowboat on the English canals a unique experience, much more interesting than cruising on a river, and possibly one you'll get hooked on and keep coming back to...

[smwhitaker]

 

59 minutes ago, IanD said:

A narrowboat on a river is the worst of both worlds -- you get the disadvantages of a narrowboat (basically a narrow steel box with all the hydrodynamic qualities of a brick, not really designed for river cruising) without seeing the charms of the environment it was designed for. If you're going on the rivers get a fibreglass cruiser -- wider, usually quieter when doing more than 4mph, easier to steer in currents. But as I said, you could do this anywhere -- the USA, Canada, France, Germany...

 

One reason there are fewer places to stop on English rivers -- apart from large parts of the banks being privately owned and inaccessible -- is that they need to be proof against flooding so have much higher banks than canals, where the constant water level makes it much easier to have adjacent things like pubs, and where the towpath means you can stop and get off anywhere that isn't too shallow to get the boat close to the bank.

 

I think you'll find a narrowboat on the English canals a unique experience, much more interesting than cruising on a river, and possibly one you'll get hooked on and keep coming back to...

I'm more than a little concerned about getting hooked on narrowboating!

Edited May 25, 2019 by smwhitaker

[MtB]

4 hours ago, IanD said:

In my experience, the big difference between the canals and the rivers in England is that you're much closer to and more involved with things on the canals, they're more intimate than the rivers. Operating locks yourself is part of the charm of canals, and there are many more places to stop --

 

Seconded. This is exactly how I find the canals too. Intimate because the scale is so different. I spent my first 20 years of boating on The Thames which is 100+ yards wide and you can only really stop in designated public moorings. Canals are the opposite, often only the width of three of four narrowboats abreast and with a towpath every inch of the way meaning you can stop and get off pretty much anywhere you like, without having to pay ten quid for the privilege. You feel more in touch with your surroundings as a result. Last summer for example I was night cruising north up the southern oxford in the charmingly named Fenny Compton Tunnel" (not a tunnel at all, but a deep cutting) and I saw a glow worm shining on the bank, my first sighting ever! So I stopped the boat right there and just stepped off and took some photos. No way that could ever have happened on a river. 

 

 

[Nightwatch]

Two or three years ago, we spend a few months on the Leeds Liverpool canal, some of which was in the Skipton area. A lovely part of the system. I was born and bred on the right side of the Pennines but have to confess that Yorkshire has some beautiful scenery.

Pennine Boats of Skipton always seemed well turned out. Also nearby is Snaygil Boats. The only issue, and I mean just the one, is wide locks. Brilliant if shared with another boat, more difficult going uphill as a lone boat. The OP mentioned that they may not enjoy the locks. To me, the locks are one of the wonders of the world.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

Two or three years ago, we spend a few months on the Leeds Liverpool canal, some of which was in the Skipton area. A lovely part of the system. I was born and bred on the right side of the Pennines but have to confess that Yorkshire has some beautiful scenery.

Pennine Boats of Skipton always seemed well turned out. Also nearby is Snaygil Boats. The only issue, and I mean just the one, is wide locks. Brilliant if shared with another boat, more difficult going uphill as a lone boat. The OP mentioned that they may not enjoy the locks. To me, the locks are one of the wonders of the world.

I agree that the English canal locks are one thing that makes our canals so enjoyable, and wouldn't want the OP to be scared off at the thought of wide ones -- they need a but more attention but are no problem so long as there are two of you, though they are trickier for single-handing.

 

We looked at Pennine and Snaygill before hiring from Shire, and I don't regret that decision -- but have no personal experience of the others. Boats can look good but be poorly maintained and supported or vice versa; in my experience Shire are good all round, and the OP was looking for personal experience of boats people have used, not just seen.

Edited May 26, 2019 by IanD

[Nightwatch]

Mr Whitaker 'will' enjoy his holiday and talk about it for years to follow. Safety first, awareness and enjoyment. Brilliant.

[howardang]

1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

Two or three years ago, we spend a few months on the Leeds Liverpool canal, some of which was in the Skipton area. A lovely part of the system. I was born and bred on the right side of the Pennines but have to confess that Yorkshire has some beautiful scenery.

Pennine Boats of Skipton always seemed well turned out. Also nearby is Snaygil Boats. The only issue, and I mean just the one, is wide locks. Brilliant if shared with another boat, more difficult going uphill as a lone boat. The OP mentioned that they may not enjoy the locks. To me, the locks are one of the wonders of the world.

Many years ago our first venture as a family onto the inland waterways was hiring a boat from Silsden Boats. Up to then my wife and I had spent most of our holiday time sailing on the West Coast of Scotland. Despite the constant rain during the whole week we thoroughly enjoyed our first venture onto the Leeds Liverpool and a further holiday confirmed that we were all definitely hooked! That was in 1978 and we have been boating on the inland waterways ever since. I think the Leeds Liverpool ranks as one of the most attractive and beautiful canals and although the double locks can be a challenge for some, they are not that bad, anymore than the swing bridges. All adding to the character and enjoyment of the boating experience. I would absolutely recommend the LL in preference to some of the busier canals further south, especially during the school holidays, and  the welcome you will find  will be good honest Yorkshire Hospitality. Go for it, you won't regret it! My choices would be Snaygil first, second Shire Cruisers from Barnosldwick and thirdly Pennine Boats, but there is little chose between them and you will have a great holiday whichever you chose.

http://www.snaygillboats.co.uk/

https://www.shirecruisers.co.uk/

http://www.penninecruisers.com/

 

 

Howard

 

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by howardang