Seeking advice in planning our first narrowboat /canal trip

[Nightwatch]

7 minutes ago, howardang said:

Many years ago our first venture as a family onto the inland waterways was hiring a boat from Silsden Boats. Up to then my wife and I had spent most of our holiday time sailing on the West Coast of Scotland./ Despite the constant rain during the whole week we thoroughly enjoyed our first venture onto the Leeds Liverpool and a further holiday confirmed that we were all definitely hooked! That was in 1978 and we have been boating on the inland waterways ever since. I think the Leeds Liverpool ranks as one of the most attractive and beautiful canals and although the double locks can be a challenge for some, they are not that bad, anymore than the swing bridges. All adding to the character and enjoyment of the boating experience. I would absolutely recommend the LL in preference to some of the busier canals further south, especially during the school holidays, and  the welcome you will find is will be good honest Yorkshire Hospitality. Go for it, you won't regret it! My choices would be Snaygil first, second Shire Cruisers from Barnosldwick and thirdly Pennine Boats, but there is little chose between them and you will have a great holiday whichever you chose.

http://www.snaygillboats.co.uk/

https://www.shirecruisers.co.uk/

http://www.penninecruisers.com/

 

 

Howard

 

 

Very well put, better than my effort.

[smwhitaker]

Thank you, Nightwatch, IanD, and howardang for your latest input and suggestions.  I'm awaiting delivery of my "Northwest and the Pennines" guide today and watched "The Rochdale" episode of Great Canal Journeys last night.  I'm not too leery of the locks as I'm sure I'll get the hang of it quickly as others do, but I don't want so many on a route that it becomes more like work and less like vacation.  Other than the scenery in the Pennines, are there any must-see attractions or places to visit?  When I was considering the 4-Counties ring area, I preliminarily chose the Caldon Canal, Wedgwood Pottery, and Chester as points we would not want to miss.

[howardang]

35 minutes ago, smwhitaker said:

Thank you, Nightwatch, IanD, and howardang for your latest input and suggestions.  I'm awaiting delivery of my "Northwest and the Pennines" guide today and watched "The Rochdale" episode of Great Canal Journeys last night.  I'm not too leery of the locks as I'm sure I'll get the hang of it quickly as others do, but I don't want so many on a route that it becomes more like work and less like vacation.  Other than the scenery in the Pennines, are there any must-see attractions or places to visit?  When I was considering the 4-Counties ring area, I preliminarily chose the Caldon Canal, Wedgwood Pottery, and Chester as points we would not want to miss.

In case you haven't obtained a copy yet, here is a link to CRT's free  Boaters Handbook which will be a very useful reference source for boating information.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/141.pdf

There is also a free DVD download which accompanies it which I am sure you will find useful.

http://www.canalnarrowboat.co.uk/boat-handling/boaters-handbook-dvd/

 

Howard

 

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by howardang

[smwhitaker]

47 minutes ago, howardang said:

In case you haven't obtained a copy yet, here is a link to CRT's free  Boaters Handbook which will be a very useful reference source for boating information.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/141.pdf

There is also a free DVD download which accompanies it which I am sure you will find useful.

http://www.canalnarrowboat.co.uk/boat-handling/boaters-handbook-dvd/

 

Howard

 

 

Excellent, thank you!

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, smwhitaker said:

Thank you, Nightwatch, IanD, and howardang for your latest input and suggestions.  I'm awaiting delivery of my "Northwest and the Pennines" guide today and watched "The Rochdale" episode of Great Canal Journeys last night.  I'm not too leery of the locks as I'm sure I'll get the hang of it quickly as others do, but I don't want so many on a route that it becomes more like work and less like vacation.  Other than the scenery in the Pennines, are there any must-see attractions or places to visit?  When I was considering the 4-Counties ring area, I preliminarily chose the Caldon Canal, Wedgwood Pottery, and Chester as points we would not want to miss.

We haven't  'done' the L&L for many years, so am not up to date.  From memory places of note are:-

Saltaire village. This has 'grown' a lot. There used to b a museum of mechanical instruments, but there are more attractions and the whole concept of the place is fascinating

Bingley 5 - rise locks (the resident lock keeper was a joy to work with - but he's long

The armoury museum in Leeds - if you get that far.

 

To my mind it's more about the wonderful scenery and the architecture.

The locks are wide, so a bit heavier and the sluices / paddles are a bit idiosyncratic, some of which are quite awkward.

 

The main locks (in number) are at either end  - You'll not be going down to Wigan (?) 'cos there's lots there and some are quite fierce.

 

Tha'll need a passport to benefit from God's Own Country - but worth it

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Only skimmed through the thread. 

 

Another vote for Leeds Liverpool. 

Barnoldswick to Sowerby with Shire Boats. 

All staircase locks have paid lockeepers to help you out. 

 

Go North, the better part of England. 

Beer is best. 

Scenery stunning.  

And you get a lovely welcome wherever you go.

And there’s pies.  

And more pies!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IanD]

19 hours ago, smwhitaker said:

Thank you, Nightwatch, IanD, and howardang for your latest input and suggestions.  I'm awaiting delivery of my "Northwest and the Pennines" guide today and watched "The Rochdale" episode of Great Canal Journeys last night.  I'm not too leery of the locks as I'm sure I'll get the hang of it quickly as others do, but I don't want so many on a route that it becomes more like work and less like vacation.  Other than the scenery in the Pennines, are there any must-see attractions or places to visit?  When I was considering the 4-Counties ring area, I preliminarily chose the Caldon Canal, Wedgwood Pottery, and Chester as points we would not want to miss.

You should definitely spend some time in Skipton, it's a lovely town, great pubs/fish'n'chips and a fantastic pie shop (Stanforth's) just up the castle arm to stock up for lunches. You'll get the 5-rise for free (it's brilliant!), and I'd also suggest a visit to Saltaire if you get that far (should do that easily in a week, we got to Newlay where you can turn just above the locks)

 

Some recommended pubs/restaurants for excellent beer and food that we visited (I'm sure people will recommend others):

 

Anchor Inn, Salterforth -- reopened under new management recently, looks good (good for last night if you use Shire at Barnoldswick, turn just beyond moorings past pub)

Bollywood Cottage, Gargrave -- far better Indian food than you'd have any right to expect in a little Dales village

Slater's Arms, Bradley

Ephesus (excellent Turkish), Rodley ==> Rodley Barge

Abbey Inn, Newlay

 

I'd always recommend ringing in advance (at least the day before) to book a table if you're planning to eat somewhere, especially if it's on its own with no alternative -- then you can change plans if they're full (might be less of a problem with only 2 of you than 4/6 of us)

 

You could do the suggested one-way route from Barnoldwick to Sowerby with Shire, it's about the same length (45 hours) as Rodley and back but with more locks and you have to make it all the way, also the section through Leeds/Castleford/Wakefield isn't brilliant -- given there are two of you and it's your first trip, I think an out-and-back would be more relaxing for you, if you find somewhere you want to stay a bit longer you can without worrying about rushing.

 

[we love much harder routes with lots of locks but then there are more of us and we've been doing it for years, so we know how fast we travel]

Edited May 27, 2019 by IanD

[howardang]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

You should definitely spend some time in Skipton, it's a lovely town, great pubs/fish'n'chips and a fantastic pie shop (Stanforth's) just up the castle arm to stock up for lunches. You'll get the 5-rise for free (it's brilliant!), and I'd also suggest a visit to Saltaire if you get that far (should do that easily in a week, we got to Newlay)

 

Some recommended pubs/restaurants for excellent beer and food that we visited (I'm sure people will recommend others):

 

Anchor Inn, Salterforth -- reopened under new management recently, looks good (good for last night if you use Shire at Barnoldswick, turn just beyond moorings past pub)

Bollywood Cottage, Gargrave -- far better Indian food than you'd have any right to expect in a little Dales village

Slater's Arms, Bradley

Ephesus (excellent Turkish), Rodley ==> Rodley Barge

Abbey Inn, Newlay

 

I'd always recommend ringing in advance (at least the day before) to book a table if you're planning to eat somewhere, especially if it's on its own with no alternative -- then you can change plans if they're full (might be less of a problem with only 2 of you than 4/6 of us)

Had Stanforths Pies for lunch yesterday!

When in Skipton a visit to Skipton Castle is a must and if you like fish and chips Bizzie Lizzies should also be on the list.

 Howard

[bearBOATING]

I’m going to shamelessly put a vote in for bearBOATING www.bearBOATING.co.uk

we are based just outside Leeds and offer both wide and narrow boats - if you fancy a bit of extra luxury and space. We also offer 2 days of training with an RYA instructor if you are complete novices. Everyone who does the training finds it definitely adds to the enjoyment of the holiday. Unless we know the crew extremely well and know they are experienced all our handovers cover both Dobson 2 Rise and Field 3 Rise to make sure everyone is clear on the operation of the staircase locks. We will meet you on your way back down Field if required as it is the only 3 Rise Staircase in the country without a full time lockie as far as we know.

And now I have shamelessly plugged ourselves I will add another website which I found extremely useful when planning our first canal holiday http://www.canaljunction.com

I found this to be a great resource with details of all the canals and all the hire companies on each of them.

[IanD]

29 minutes ago, bearBOATING said:

I’m going to shamelessly put a vote in for bearBOATING www.bearBOATING.co.uk

we are based just outside Leeds and offer both wide and narrow boats - if you fancy a bit of extra luxury and space. We also offer 2 days of training with an RYA instructor if you are complete novices. Everyone who does the training finds it definitely adds to the enjoyment of the holiday. Unless we know the crew extremely well and know they are experienced all our handovers cover both Dobson 2 Rise and Field 3 Rise to make sure everyone is clear on the operation of the staircase locks. We will meet you on your way back down Field if required as it is the only 3 Rise Staircase in the country without a full time lockie as far as we know.

And now I have shamelessly plugged ourselves I will add another website which I found extremely useful when planning our first canal holiday http://www.canaljunction.com

I found this to be a great resource with details of all the canals and all the hire companies on each of them.

We looked at but didn't use Bear because their boat layouts didn't suit us (we needed 6 berths), but I've heard very good things about their (very luxurious) boats. They are 57' though, as narrowboat novices you might find a smaller boat a little bit easier to handle...

(but don't let that put you off if you like the look of the boats)

[bearBOATING]

Hi Ian - Thank you. We do have nemoNOO that sleeps 8.  57ft x 10 ft Widebeam. Very luxurious and our most popular boat! 

Edited May 27, 2019 by bearBOATING

[smwhitaker]

Fabulous information and suggestions here!  Thank you all.  Barnoldswick to Saltaire seems very doable in a week at a leisurely pace and time for Skipton.  There doesn't appear to be any tunnels or aqueducts along that route.  The closest aqueduct appears to be the Stanley Ferry Aqueduct but that is roughly doubling the trip length (still possibly doable in 10-11 days perhaps?).  Would we really be missing out if we didn't include a tunnel and/or aqueduct in our route?

[smwhitaker]

2 hours ago, smwhitaker said:

Fabulous information and suggestions here!  Thank you all.  Barnoldswick to Saltaire seems very doable in a week at a leisurely pace and time for Skipton.  There doesn't appear to be any tunnels or aqueducts along that route.  The closest aqueduct appears to be the Stanley Ferry Aqueduct but that is roughly doubling the trip length (still possibly doable in 10-11 days perhaps?).  Would we really be missing out if we didn't include a tunnel and/or aqueduct in our route?

No tunnels but found an aqueduct along this route (Dowley Gap Aqueduct) on canalplan.org.  What a fantastic resource!

[MtB]

12 hours ago, smwhitaker said:

Would we really be missing out if we didn't include a tunnel and/or aqueduct in our route?

 

Tunnels can be a bit of an anti-climax as you can generally see straight through them to daylight the other end and they always look really short from the entrance just as you go in. So I wouldn't put a tunnel that high on your list...

 

 

 

[smwhitaker]

41 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Tunnels can be a bit of an anti-climax as you can generally see straight through them to daylight the other end and they always look really short from the entrance just as you go in. So I wouldn't put a tunnel that high on your list...

 

 

 

Thanks, Mike

[OldGoat]

13 hours ago, smwhitaker said:

Fabulous information and suggestions here!  Thank you all.  Barnoldswick to Saltaire seems very doable in a week at a leisurely pace and time for Skipton.  There doesn't appear to be any tunnels or aqueducts along that route.  The closest aqueduct appears to be the Stanley Ferry Aqueduct but that is roughly doubling the trip length (still possibly doable in 10-11 days perhaps?).  Would we really be missing out if we didn't include a tunnel and/or aqueduct in our route?

Looking at this thread (and perhaps getting too involved in trying to get you the 'best possible experience') I'm going to stick my neck out a bit more and make what at first sight may be seen as an outrageous suggestion.

 

To answer your question above - I wouldn't necessarily choose a route either to avoid or specifically include a tunnel (or any other particular feature). If there's one on your preferred route - then great, if then - then.... They're part of what that particular canal does. If your trip us too sugary - then it's boring. There are lots of aqueducts around the system - but only one of them is worth making a special efforts to view..

 

You two are school teachers - right? Why not consider instead a trip which takes in part of Birmingham (as well as some pleasant countryside). it gives you an opportunity to look at our industrial heritage, architecture, and art. Quite different to bring you accommodation with you and see a place after the tourists have departed for the night. Our cities are small compared with some of yours, thus you can pass through quickly.   

What say you?

[IanD]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Tunnels can be a bit of an anti-climax as you can generally see straight through them to daylight the other end and they always look really short from the entrance just as you go in. So I wouldn't put a tunnel that high on your list...

 

 

 

Except Standedge... ?

[IanD]

19 hours ago, bearBOATING said:

Hi Ian - Thank you. We do have nemoNOO that sleeps 8.  57ft x 10 ft Widebeam. Very luxurious and our most popular boat! 

You do have now, you didn't have then ?

[hawkesmith]

Here's a another slight left field route: Wrenbury (or Ellesmere if your feeling more adventurous) to Ellesmere Port and back. It has some very beautiful, but not the drama of the Pennines, scenery,  a steady flow of pubs, a steady flow of locks, narrow, broad and staircase, the boat museum, Chester city, a short train journey to Liverpool. 

 

Be sceptical at first, but this route has a bit of everything,  and is not at all challenging for first timers. It was only yesterday, having wondered at the steady flow (5) of hire boats going past, that I thought about the route and how pleasant it actually is. 

 

Or you could go the other way to Llangollen with the pontcysyllte aqueduct, steam trains, etc but that is the touristy route which you wanted to avoid.

 

What ever you choose, I  hope you have a great time.

[smwhitaker]

1 hour ago, OldGoat said:

Looking at this thread (and perhaps getting too involved in trying to get you the 'best possible experience') I'm going to stick my neck out a bit more and make what at first sight may be seen as an outrageous suggestion.

 

To answer your question above - I wouldn't necessarily choose a route either to avoid or specifically include a tunnel (or any other particular feature). If there's one on your preferred route - then great, if then - then.... They're part of what that particular canal does. If your trip us too sugary - then it's boring. There are lots of aqueducts around the system - but only one of them is worth making a special efforts to view..

 

You two are school teachers - right? Why not consider instead a trip which takes in part of Birmingham (as well as some pleasant countryside). it gives you an opportunity to look at our industrial heritage, architecture, and art. Quite different to bring you accommodation with you and see a place after the tourists have departed for the night. Our cities are small compared with some of yours, thus you can pass through quickly.   

What say you?

Thank you, OldGoat.  I appreciate your involvement in trying to get us the best possible experience!  My husband is a teacher so my vacations generally have to follow his schedule.  Are you suggesting a trip to Birmingham instead of a week on the canals?  I think -  no, I know - that I am now too invested in the lure of the canals to consider a trip that doesn't include them.  If you suggest Birmingham I will definitely consider a few nights there.  Depending on airfare, I'm thinking we might fly into Manchester, train to York for a few nights, train/bus to Barnoldswick or Skipton to rent the narrowboat and then our itinerary is free for about 1 week after that.  If we need to fly out of London we'll probably go to Bath since neither of us have been there.  Or perhaps a nostagic trip to Stratford for a play or two.  If we fly out of Manchester then we probably wouldn't want to go south for our last days.

Or are you suggesting a canal trip through Birmingham?  I have read that traveling on canals through cities can be a bit dodgy in some areas. No?

[smwhitaker]

7 minutes ago, hawkesmith said:

Here's a another slight left field route: Wrenbury (or Ellesmere if your feeling more adventurous) to Ellesmere Port and back. It has some very beautiful, but not the drama of the Pennines, scenery,  a steady flow of pubs, a steady flow of locks, narrow, broad and staircase, the boat museum, Chester city, a short train journey to Liverpool. 

 

Be sceptical at first, but this route has a bit of everything,  and is not at all challenging for first timers. It was only yesterday, having wondered at the steady flow (5) of hire boats going past, that I thought about the route and how pleasant it actually is. 

 

Or you could go the other way to Llangollen with the pontcysyllte aqueduct, steam trains, etc but that is the touristy route which you wanted to avoid.

 

What ever you choose, I  hope you have a great time.

Thank you, hawkesmith. I think that route is in one of the guidebooks I already have so I'll check it out.  When considering that area I initially planned to hire in Stoke on Trent and travel the Caldon Canal and then over to Chester and back.  I think that might be doable in 10-11 days.  Is the route you suggested preferable in your opinion?

[OldGoat]

2 minutes ago, smwhitaker said:

Thank you, OldGoat.  I appreciate your involvement in trying to get us the best possible experience!  My husband is a teacher so my vacations generally have to follow his schedule.  Are you suggesting a trip to Birmingham instead of a week on the canals?  I think -  no, I know - that I am now too invested in the lure of the canals to consider a trip that doesn't include them.  If you suggest Birmingham I will definitely consider a few nights there.  Depending on airfare, I'm thinking we might fly into Manchester, train to York for a few nights, train/bus to Barnoldswick or Skipton to rent the narrowboat and then our itinerary is free for about 1 week after that.  If we need to fly out of London we'll probably go to Bath since neither of us have been there.  Or perhaps a nostagic trip to Stratford for a play or two.  If we fly out of Manchester then we probably wouldn't want to go south for our last days.

Or are you suggesting a canal trip through Birmingham?  I have read that traveling on canals through cities can be a bit dodgy in some areas. No?

Yes, yes - go through Brum on a boat!.

Yes, there are grotty areas but with a bit of planning you can avoid them. In the centre there are excellent moorings and relatively quiet at night. 

• A choice of restaurants
• Art gallery
• Georgian churches (nice architecture in a pleasant square)
• The pen museum
• The mint
• The Back to backs - but see later
• Jewellery quarter
• The town hall with a magnificent organ

All within a reasonable walking distance.

At Dudley - a half day's cruise along the Birmingham main line is the Black Country Living museum https://www.bclm.co.uk  (similar in style to Colonial Williamsburg on your side of the Pond) - which celebrates the local history and development. Not a static exhibition but each 'exhibit' is staffed with knowledgeable folks that bring the details to life.

We like the fact that you can moor overnight next to the museum and enter by the back entrance - right by the pub. If you don't choose a route for the rest of the holiday, you can take the tunnel trip through the old mine workings.

Hire from (say) Alvechurch you could build a ring round the Birmingham area which gives you a fair amount of  countryside - passing a part of the 4 counties which was your initial idea.

I made this post because over the weekend there was a re-run of a BBC programme about 19th century bread making which uses the BCLM bakery - thus I thought "that might be of interest to your visit"  

 

 

[hawkesmith]

The Caldon is lovely and I don't have many miss givings about Stoke (but am happier when we have left it behind.) If you hired from Ellesmere then the Montgomery canal is only a couple of hours away and is even more peaceful than the Caldon. My vote would be the Llangollen and Shropshire union canals as I mentioned  in the previous post. There is a steady stream of  nice pubs and locks without ever getting strained. Chester is a lovely city and a safe one to overnight in. You can jump the train from Chester straight to Liverpool if that takes your fancy.

 

[Ray T]

On 24/05/2019 at 22:57, smwhitaker said:

Thanks, Tumshie   I just requested their brochure and joined their email list.  Do you have any experience with this company?  Reviews of hireboat companies are difficult to find and I have read some unpleasant accounts of some companies.

When we hired boats we hired from Shire Cruisers, "did" The Rochdale Canal from Sowerby Bridge to Summit on three separate occasions, Also the Calder and Hebble.

 

Peter Stevens and crew were a pleasure to deal with. The boats were always immaculately turned out and reliable. One the one occasion we had boat trouble an engineer was out within the hour of our phone call to fix the problem. All it was we had hit an underwater obstruction and the rudder had come out of its skeg cup.

 

The reason we don't hire any more from them? We bought our own boat.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Ray T

[IanD]

2 hours ago, hawkesmith said:

The Caldon is lovely and I don't have many miss givings about Stoke (but am happier when we have left it behind.) If you hired from Ellesmere then the Montgomery canal is only a couple of hours away and is even more peaceful than the Caldon. My vote would be the Llangollen and Shropshire union canals as I mentioned  in the previous post. There is a steady stream of  nice pubs and locks without ever getting strained. Chester is a lovely city and a safe one to overnight in. You can jump the train from Chester straight to Liverpool if that takes your fancy.

 

The Llangollen does have the fantastic aqueduct but is otherwise rather boring as far as scenery and towns/pubs are concerned, and it's *very* busy in the summer -- the only canal in all our years boating where we've had to queue for long periods (hours!) at locks. The Llangollen has about 8000 boat movements through eachlock per year (right near the top of the CART list) compared to about 2000 for the L&L (and about 300 for the HNC and Rochdale)...

 

P.S. In case you haven't worked it out, different people have different views about what the "best" canals are... ?

Edited May 28, 2019 by IanD