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Limehouse to Teddington - well deck drains?


SabrinaWorcs

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Hi folks.  Planning to do the Limehouse to Teddington passage on my 57' semi trad.  Have done quite a bit of research into the topic generally - timings, navigation, anchor, VHF etc, all of which as a sailor is familiar territory.

The one subject which seems to have mixed views is regards the well deck.  My boat has what I think is the more usual arrangement on "modern" boats which is a raised self draining well deck, but it does not have a cratch board or cover.  Some sources say block up the well deck drains to prevent water ingress in a swell.  Others say leave them open in case water breaks over the bow and needs to drain out.

What do people think - and if the view is to block them what is the recommended way of doing that?  I guess an ideal arrangement would be some kind of one way valve but that seems over complicated!

Thanks

S

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So long as the front doors are raised above the well deck, I think you would be really unlucky to ship enough water that the scuppers can't clear. Usually they are in a place where the bow wave is at it's lowest any way if you're lucky.

 

Mike

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1 hour ago, roland elsdon said:

Life is so hard now.

back in 79 we just dipped the diesel and firedup the perkins.

anchor no

radio  tune to kenny everett

life ring  no

well deck present

cat  attending

tea  in pot

squeezy car horn functioning.

 

somehow still here

 

That's as maybe - but in 79 you didn't have modern trip boats ploughing up and down creating tidal wave of wash...

In normal conditions there  shouldn't be problems with the occasional wave, especially if you start around the suggested departure time. I don't know what folks do nowadays, but if you turn into the wave your bow will be too high to ship much water anyway. 

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We did that trip on a very windy (and therefore choppy sea) day.

Never even thought to block the well drain holes. However we are glad we didn’t. Most, if not all, the water came over the top from the wake of the trip boats which give no quarter. Quickly drained away and no issues. Everything calmed down very quickly after passing Tower Bridge. 

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We've done that trip several times, also the Severn Estuary in very heavy seas, and never had an issue. Yes it sometimes came in the holes but then it drained out again, and on the Severn it came over the bows but it always drained away quite quickly. The one precaution I did take was to temporarily seal the lounge vents that are in the bottom of the front doors and make sure the door seal was watertight (using draught excluder tape), so if water collected there temporarily it wouldn't fill the cabin. We had no issues at all.

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Our well deck drains are quite near the waterline but  we had no issues with excess water ingress when going upriver from Limehouse. But it helped that we started our journey at 6am when there were no trip boats to contend with but there were a lot of those high powered Clippers which created quite a wash. It also helped that the wind was only 6mph.

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On 24/05/2019 at 11:18, SabrinaWorcs said:

Hi folks.  Planning to do the Limehouse to Teddington passage on my 57' semi trad.  Have done quite a bit of research into the topic generally - timings, navigation, anchor, VHF etc, all of which as a sailor is familiar territory.

The one subject which seems to have mixed views is regards the well deck.  My boat has what I think is the more usual arrangement on "modern" boats which is a raised self draining well deck, but it does not have a cratch board or cover.  Some sources say block up the well deck drains to prevent water ingress in a swell.  Others say leave them open in case water breaks over the bow and needs to drain out.

What do people think - and if the view is to block them what is the recommended way of doing that?  I guess an ideal arrangement would be some kind of one way valve but that seems over complicated!

Thanks

S

 

Just leave them open and keep the bow doors shut.

On 24/05/2019 at 17:18, Keeping Up said:

We've done that trip several times, also the Severn Estuary in very heavy seas, and never had an issue. Yes it sometimes came in the holes but then it drained out again, and on the Severn it came over the bows but it always drained away quite quickly. The one precaution I did take was to temporarily seal the lounge vents that are in the bottom of the front doors and make sure the door seal was watertight (using draught excluder tape), so if water collected there temporarily it wouldn't fill the cabin. We had no issues at all.

Agreed. I duck taped over the vents and the bottom 12" of the doors from Bristol to Sharpness. I never did it on the Thames tideway which was actually a lot rougher.

 

It's the cabin which you need to exclude water from, not the bow well deck.

Edited by blackrose
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I have done it in an Oxfordshire narrow boats hire boat which has quite a low bow, and a well deck draining through scuppers by gravity. We had no problems, very little ingress through the scuppers and if anything came in it went out pretty quickly. We had a couple of splashes over the bow which drained quickly through the open scuppers. My advice is leave them open (and shut your bow doors when not in use!)

 

As others have said the worst for kicking up a wake are the Ribs, followed by "City cruiser" trip boats, the high speed clippers make very little wake.

 

Have a fun trip!

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19 hours ago, OptedOut said:

Also shut any engine room side doors if it's really rough.

Agree with this, and the earlier advice.  In general my observation (having crewed on about ten different boats) is that short boats have less as a problem, as they pitch more. By contrast longer boats just go in a straight line, which is not helpful. The water getting up to the sidedeck level is more of a concern than a bit of spray over the bows.

 

This photo was taken on a very calm day - ie the issue is other boats not the weather!

dsc_2866_crop.jpg
 

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Also we put a bung in the end of the breather pipe of the waste holding tank, which is in the side of the boat and is quite large. Otherwise a large wave could give a new definition to "getting your own back"

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I wouldn't worry about it to much, in any event, after 25ish minutes you'll be under Tower Bridge in to the peaceful waters. As Largo was here!

 

712724112_LargoonapassageuptheRiverThamesintheCityofLondon.jpg.8e3e67a8059d203ea26fa106a1f1f3a2.jpg

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This video should give you an idea of what it can be like:

 

 

Most of the narrow boat splashing happens later in the video. It's rare for it to be any worse than this, and most waves will be momentary and not constant. Get your crew member to check the front now and again to ensure there isn't any issues with water ingress as you go along.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all, many thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

I decided to leave the scuppers open, but fitted some draught excluder on the bottom of the front doors to protect from any ingress into the cabin.

In the event, we shipped hardly any water at all onto the well deck - just some spray nothing green - and not a drop into the cabin.

We left Limehouse around 1100 so there was some traffic, but most other boats (including the riverbusses) were very courteous.

Conditions were somewhat windy (maybe 12 knots) and the wind was over the tide, but the swell was not too bad.  In a couple of places where the banks were vertical walls on both sides the waves and wakes were bouncing back and forth instead of dispersing and it got more sloppy, but basically nothing to worry about.  And progressively calmer once above Tower Bridge.

The downloadable PLA pilot booklet that shows all the bridges and tells you which arch to use was brilliant, highly recommend it.

An incredibly memorable day and a trip I'd recommend to anybody.

S

 

Timelapse video Limehouse to Putney (battery died!) at https://www.dropbox.com/s/t10q4d8j2jgijve/

 

 

 

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On 29/05/2019 at 09:00, Keeping Up said:

Also we put a bung in the end of the breather pipe of the waste holding tank, which is in the side of the boat and is quite large. Otherwise a large wave could give a new definition to "getting your own back"

Forgot to say, I did put a tapered cork in the outflow exit for the dishwasher (yes, I know...) to avoid any ingress that might then sit in the pipe and go manky.  Sink/basin outflows I didn't bother as they are gravity draining so it wouldn't matter.  Didn't even consider the holding tank breather pipe to be honest.  I think it goes upwards from the hull fitting to the carbon filter unit so I assume would be unlikely to see serious ingress.  Glad I didn't find out...

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2 hours ago, SabrinaWorcs said:

Hi all, many thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

I decided to leave the scuppers open, but fitted some draught excluder on the bottom of the front doors to protect from any ingress into the cabin.

In the event, we shipped hardly any water at all onto the well deck - just some spray nothing green - and not a drop into the cabin.

We left Limehouse around 1100 so there was some traffic, but most other boats (including the riverbusses) were very courteous.

Conditions were somewhat windy (maybe 12 knots) and the wind was over the tide, but the swell was not too bad.  In a couple of places where the banks were vertical walls on both sides the waves and wakes were bouncing back and forth instead of dispersing and it got more sloppy, but basically nothing to worry about.  And progressively calmer once above Tower Bridge.

The downloadable PLA pilot booklet that shows all the bridges and tells you which arch to use was brilliant, highly recommend it.

An incredibly memorable day and a trip I'd recommend to anybody.

S

 

Timelapse video Limehouse to Putney (battery died!) at https://www.dropbox.com/s/t10q4d8j2jgijve/

 

 

 

Thanks for this.  Here are some photos of a trip in the opposite direction today.  Just a plug to encourage anyone doing this trip to check the Notices to Mariners on the PLA's website. There was some interesting congestion at Vauxhall, where we met a tug coming the other way. Also a new obstacle at Fulham football ground since this video was taken.

https://nbsg.wordpress.com/2019/07/24/teddington-to-limehouse-july-2019/

dsc_5258.jpg

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