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B2019

Help to pass BSS and electrical issues

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4 hours ago, sirweste said:

I would second the advice from Alan of finding a local welder, there's a few knocking about on boats, to weld in 2 or 3 sheets of steel to make the permanent tank.

I'd be surprised if this were harder than fitting and securing a "auxiliary" tank.

 

Also, I'm not sure where you are located, but I have a hydraulic crimp tool you're welcome to borrow should you wish to redo some of the electrics yourself. I can offer some advice too.

I'm on the Tring summit at the moment, heading towards Berkhamsted.

 

P.S. your engine looks awesome!!!!

Sounds good. Thanks. It runs nicely. 

I got a boat electrician to do my electrics the other day. He has put the emergency cut of switch on the negative wires. I've been checking online at diagrams but they run the switch through the positive. Can anyone advise?

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45 minutes ago, B2019 said:

I got a boat electrician to do my electrics the other day. He has put the emergency cut of switch on the negative wires. I've been checking online at diagrams but they run the switch through the positive. Can anyone advise?

Yes, it’s poor practise. Get him to fit it to the positive. 

 

Rather than write a long post as to why, I’ll suggest you take a read of this:

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/whereiso.html

Or get him to...

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Is the BSS getting tougher? My boat had dodgy wiring, gas piping with different diameters connected together (loosely), rusted through rear bulkhead, leaking hot water heater flue, jubilee clips on the fuel lines and had a newish BSS when I bought it last year!

 

 

Edited by nickhindle

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5 minutes ago, nickhindle said:

Is the BSS getting tougher? My boat had dodgy wiring, gas piping with different diameters connected together (loosely), rusted through rear bulkhead, leaking hot water heater flue, jubilee clips on the fuel lines and had a newish BSS when I bought it last year!

 

 

The BSS has not (apart from the introduction of Co alarms) changed since 2015.

The 'problem' is the inconsistent application / interpretation of the 'rules' by the examiners.

 

I did a 'BSS run thru check' myself on my own boat, and even knowing where everything was and how everything worked it took me 2 hours.

The next day the BSS examiner came and did the inspection - it took him 14 minutes.

 

 

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I suspected this might be the case. It also seems that there are regional differences, i.e. busy canal centres in the Midlands vs. quiet East Anglia...

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8 hours ago, B2019 said:

I could just leave it and fit another isolater to the positive as well. Job done. 

You could, yes. But leaving it there is adding two unnecessary potential points of failure and extra resistance into the system. 

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I did a 'BSS run thru check' myself on my own boat, and even knowing where everything was and how everything worked it took me 2 hours.

 

That's FAST! 

 

I reckon a proper BSS examination, checking every single line of the regs on a boat you don't know would take best part of a day once travelling to and from the boat mooring is factored in, along with actually finding the boat in a marina containing a hundred of them, or on a half mile length of towpath mooring. 

 

Most of the checks one would fly through but there will always be two or three items that take an hour each to assess, often due to poor access or ambiguity in the rules requiring contacting the BSS office for clarification when being done thoroughly.

 

Most inspectors 'take a view' and if the first few things are well installed they are prone to ticking the box regardless on the more time-consuming items as it is highly unlikely there will be any come-back. 

 

 

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Another question for you guys. Does there need to be a cut off switch and fuse between the solar panels and batteries?

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11 minutes ago, B2019 said:

Another question for you guys. Does there need to be a cut off switch and fuse between the solar panels and batteries?

There should (must) be a fuse between the controller and the batteries (near the battery end)

 

It is a good idea to have a 'switch' (or breaker) between the panels and the controller,. If you happen to disconnect the batteries with the panels still feeding the controller you will release the 'magic-smoke' and it will cost lots of pennies.

Get into the routine of disconnecting the solar panels before working on the batteries.

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9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Get into the routine of disconnecting the solar panels before working on the batteries.

agree. 

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I'm just adding fuse and breaker switch for bilge pump and solar panels myself  I've so noticed that my electrician has put all the negative wires through the fuse box instead of the positives. Should I change this so all all positive wires go through fuse box?

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31 minutes ago, B2019 said:

I'm just adding fuse and breaker switch for bilge pump and solar panels myself  I've so noticed that my electrician has put all the negative wires through the fuse box instead of the positives. Should I change this so all all positive wires go through fuse box?

Very poor practice - does he have an understanding of boat / 12v / battery systems ?

 

Assuming I'm interpreting your post correctly :

You will obviously need to re-do all your negative cables and wire them up to a single bus-bar, you will then need new positive (terminated) cables to run to the fuse-box.

Presumably all of the negatives to the appliances  will be running into the fuse box, you will need to change these and re-route the positives on the output side.

 

It will not be a simple operation without tooling and some knowledge (but it can be done).

 

 

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37 minutes ago, B2019 said:

Should I change this so all all positive wires go through fuse box?

Short answer - YES, DEFINITELY. 

 

Longer answer is along the lines of Alan’s post. You won’t need to rewire the negatives, simply replace the fuse box with a busbar. If (hopefully) the positives all come from a common busbar then that’s where you could fit the fuse box. Obviously if the location is inconvenient then rewiring as appropriate will be required. Either way, it’s a fair amount of work. 

 

As the electrician obviously has no idea what he’s doing with 12V boat electrics can we confirm that he has used multi-strand cable?  Did he do any volt drop calculations? 

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37 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Short answer - YES, DEFINITELY. 

 

Longer answer is along the lines of Alan’s post. You won’t need to rewire the negatives, simply replace the fuse box with a busbar. If (hopefully) the positives all come from a common busbar then that’s where you could fit the fuse box. Obviously if the location is inconvenient then rewiring as appropriate will be required. Either way, it’s a fair amount of work. 

 

As the electrician obviously has no idea what he’s doing with 12V boat electrics can we confirm that he has used multi-strand cable?  Did he do any volt drop calculations? 

No multi strand cable used. I've got two grey household wires running two water pumps in the boat from the previous owner. Anything I add to the boat in the future I will use arctic cable. I've got most of the tools needed for the job ( soldering iron, drill etc) I just need to get crimp tool. volt drop calculation 😆

 

I'm doing everything myself on the boat now as NO one on the river can be trusted so any advice anyone can give would be of massive help!

 

 

Just another question for you - where the red wire comes out from the battery and then is connected to 3 cables that go to the fuse box should I use a 30a terminal block?

37 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Short answer - YES, DEFINITELY. 

 

Longer answer is along the lines of Alan’s post. You won’t need to rewire the negatives, simply replace the fuse box with a busbar. If (hopefully) the positives all come from a common busbar then that’s where you could fit the fuse box. Obviously if the location is inconvenient then rewiring as appropriate will be required. Either way, it’s a fair amount of work. 

 

As the electrician obviously has no idea what he’s doing with 12V boat electrics can we confirm that he has used multi-strand cable?  Did he do any volt drop calculations? 

No multi strand cable used. I've got two grey household wires running two water pumps in the boat from the previous owner. Anything I add to the boat in the future I will use arctic cable. I've got most of the tools needed for the job ( soldering iron, drill etc) I just need to get crimp tool. volt drop calculation 😆

 

I'm doing everything myself on the boat now as NO one on the river can be trusted so any advice anyone can give would be of massive help!

 

 

Just another question for you - where the red wire comes out from the battery and then is connected to 3 cables that go to the fuse box should I use a 30a terminal block?

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24 minutes ago, B2019 said:

No multi strand cable used. I've got two grey household wires running two water pumps in the boat from the previous owner. Anything I add to the boat in the future I will use arctic cable. I've got most of the tools needed for the job ( soldering iron, drill etc) I just need to get crimp tool. volt drop calculation

It would be all for the best if you could remove the Grey 'Twin & Earth' and replace it with proper 'flexible' wiring.

 

Flexible wires are recommended for a reason (and compulsory for boats built to the RCD standards since 1998)

 

24 minutes ago, B2019 said:

Just another question for you - where the red wire comes out from the battery and then is connected to 3 cables that go to the fuse box should I use a 30a terminal block?

Not without knowing what's at the other end.

 

If they are connected to (say) a 2000 watt inverter that draws 200 amps, a 30amp terminal block would soon disappear in a puff-of-smoke.

25 minutes ago, B2019 said:

I'm doing everything myself on the boat now as NO one on the river can be trusted so any advice anyone can give would be of massive help!

You are either 'on the wrong river' or asking the wrong 'electrician'.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It would be all for the best if you could remove the Grey 'Twin & Earth' and replace it with proper 'flexible' wiring.

 

Flexible wires are recommended for a reason (and compulsory for boats built to the RCD standards since 1998)

 

Not without knowing what's at the other end.

 

If they are connected to (say) a 2000 watt inverter that draws 200 amps, a 30amp terminal block would soon disappear in a puff-of-smoke.

Connected to X2  12 volt water pumps. 

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27 minutes ago, B2019 said:

I just need to get crimp tool. volt drop calculation...

Take a read of this as a good primer for wiring...

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/cable_type.html

 

Once you’ve read it feel free to come back with any queries :)

29 minutes ago, B2019 said:

NO one on the river can be trusted so any advice anyone can give would be of massive help!

Remind me again where you are?

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Thanks for both of those links. Of great help 👌

 

I'm just fixing my solar panels today. Fuse and cut off switch . Went to the chandler and got red and black ocean flex cable to replace brown and blue cable. I've got three batteries. One end is connected to earth and other end is positive running pumps ( will go through fuse box)  Where should I put negative and positive cables coming from solar panels? Coming from same end? 

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