Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
B2019

Help to pass BSS and electrical issues

Featured Posts

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Yes, when referring to the battery interconnect cables and suchlike, 25 mm sq is the minimum. BSS para 3.2.2

 

Reading 3.2.2, only the battery, master switch, bow thruster, inverter, starter motor and winch supply cables are required to be of any particular size.

 

The general wiring shown in the OP photos should still pass a BSS despite being thin and solid core. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Wow, how delightful!

 

What make and model is it? Care to bung up some photos? That would be wonderful!

 

 

It's the SABB GG 1960s engine with gearbox. Single cylinder. Bullet proof. 

IMG_20190510_122909962.jpg

10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Reading 3.2.2, only the battery, master switch, bow thruster, inverter, starter motor and winch supply cables are required to be of any particular size.

 

The general wiring shown in the OP photos should still pass a BSS despite being thin and solid core. 

 

 

Very useful! Many thanks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Reading 3.2.2, only the battery, master switch, bow thruster, inverter, starter motor and winch supply cables are required to be of any particular size.

 

The general wiring shown in the OP photos should still pass a BSS despite being thin and solid core. 

 

 

Yes, however the wiring between the batteries etc looks too thin.

Edited by nicknorman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

What a beaut!

 

How do you start it? With a blow lamp to heat up the hot bulb?

 

I most likely will need to heat up the bulb in the winter but at the moment I don't need to. It's manual hand start. Very easy to start and doesn't waste any power. Simple to maintain  and farmers loved them. Big in the 1950s and first prototype was 1880s I think. I was reading that they actually burn any kind of combustible liquid.  See below a diagram of how it works. 

Screenshot_20190521-224431.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Yes, however the wiring between the batteries etc looks too thin.

 

Agreed. The way the inverter is connected with croc clips is particularly crappy I thought. 

 

The OP however seems to have been left with the impression that all of the wiring is causing the 'fail', rather than just the battery interconnects. With no starter motor or any high current demands (except perhaps the water heater), I see no need for 25mm2 interconnects. 

 

No evidence of a battery isolator either. 

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, B2019 said:

I most likely will need to heat up the bulb in the winter but at the moment I don't need to. It's manual hand start. Very easy to start and doesn't waste any power. Simple to maintain  and farmers loved them. Big in the 1950s and first prototype was 1880s I think. I was reading that they actually burn any kind of combustible liquid.  See below a diagram of how it works. 

Screenshot_20190521-224431.png

 

Nice that yours starts easily. I had one once that was a right pig to start.... 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

No evidence of a battery isolator either. 

See post #2 :P

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

In Post 2 you said the OP might need an isolator, not his boat.....

 

:P

Ahh yes, that’s true. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Will yours run in either direction?

 

 

Yes it will. 

36 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Ahh yes, that’s true. 

No it doesn't have an isolater and that was one of the points it failed the BSS on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, B2019 said:

No it doesn't have an isolater and that was one of the points it failed the BSS on. 

Easily sorted by a boat sparky. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, B2019 said:

Very easy to start . . .

Yes, I noticed the Easystart in picture 4 ?

 

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

Yes, I noticed the Easystart in picture 4 ?

 

? There is a technique to starting these engines. Easy start was for the first time I got it started as it was a right bugger to start at first but now it starts fine without. I'm keeping the easy start close for the winter.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

Yes, I noticed the Easystart in picture 4 ?

 

 

Wow, I missed that! 

 

(But then I'm not as familiar with what a can of EasyStart looks like as you are, Jim :giggles: )

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, B2019 said:

? There is a technique to starting these engines. Easy start was for the first time I got it started as it was a right bugger to start at first but now it starts fine without. I'm keeping the easy start close for the winter.  

 

I'm a bit worried that you were using the Easy Start in the right way, given the cigarette lighter there next to it!!

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

The general wiring shown in the OP photos should still pass a BSS despite being thin and solid core.  

 

 

I looked through the private boat BSS requirements and there is no mention of multistrand cables anywhere. Am I going nuts? I am sure they used to specifically ban single core. Has it changed, if so when? Please help my poor and inadequate brain. Also, no mention of Arctic cable for mains wiring, so presumably twin core and earth is now OK, provided it meets the other requirements. Were all these things in the RCD requirements, rather than BSS? If so, then not applicable to a non-RCD boat. The only requirement on cable size is for heavy current loads with the 25mm2 minimum. I know BSS is all around safety, so a failed electrical circuit is not a concern, but an on-fire, or shock hazard is and the requirements seem to be all around this. Fusing, isolators, location, passing through bulkheads, terminals and so on.

Jen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Were all these things in the RCD requirements, rather than BSS?

 

I would say yes. The BSS is a very sketchy standard with some gaping holes in it, e.g. this, despite the stupidity of boats failing due to, for example, a missing label on the diesel filler or gas locker.

 

Another example is the use of annealed copper for gas pipes rather than hard copper. Mandatory in RCD and also BSS you'd have thought, yes? I challenge you to find it in the latter....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I looked through the private boat BSS requirements and there is no mention of multistrand cables anywhere. Am I going nuts? I am sure they used to specifically ban single core. Has it changed, if so when? Please help my poor and inadequate brain. Also, no mention of Arctic cable for mains wiring, so presumably twin core and earth is now OK, provided it meets the other requirements. Were all these things in the RCD requirements, rather than BSS? If so, then not applicable to a non-RCD boat. The only requirement on cable size is for heavy current loads with the 25mm2 minimum. I know BSS is all around safety, so a failed electrical circuit is not a concern, but an on-fire, or shock hazard is and the requirements seem to be all around this. Fusing, isolators, location, passing through bulkheads, terminals and so on.

Jen

The RCD (via ISO 10133 - Small Craft DC Electrical Systems) certainly makes mandatory the use of 'flexible' (multistrand) conductors.

 

The RCD (via ISO 13297 - Small Craft AC Electrical Systems) certainly makes mandatory the use of 'flexible' (multistrand) conductors.

 

As the years go by there will be less and less boats around that are built 'outside' of the RCD requirements as old boats become 'retired and new boats come on-line (unless the UK revokes it after Brexit) so it will become the norm for boats to have stranded / multi conductors.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

As the years go by there will be less and less boats around that are built 'outside' of the RCD requirements as old boats become 'retired and new boats come on-line (unless the UK revokes it after Brexit) so it will become the norm for boats to have stranded / multi conductors.

 

BUT...

 

There is no obligation on anyone installing gas or electrics later, to do it in accordance with RCD.

 

15mm rigid copper for gas piping and solid core household copper cabling is fine for BSS. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

BUT...

 

There is no obligation on anyone installing gas or electrics later, to do it in accordance with RCD.

 

15mm rigid copper for gas piping and solid core household copper cabling is fine for BSS. 

I know - unless it is an RCD boat in which case there is, under the amended requirements - namely "alters the watercraft to such an extent that it may not meet the applicable essential safety and environmental requirements laid down in this Directive"

 

 

I simply said that there will be less and less non RCD boats about in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I know - unless it is an RCD boat in which case there is, under the amended requirements - namely "alters the watercraft to such an extent that it may not meet the applicable essential safety and environmental requirements laid down in this Directive"

 

 

I simply said that there will be less and less non RCD boats about in the future.

 

But with no enforcement or any negative consequences whatsoever of ignoring that RCD requirement, I hold that DIY bodgery will continue to thrive in the future just as it does now. 

 

The OP's boat for example might well have been built to RCD but whoever installed that wiring obviously cared nothing for the requirements, and why should he? Probably isn't even aware they exist.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

The OP's boat for example might well have been built to RCD but whoever installed that wiring obviously cared nothing for the requirements, and why should he? Probably isn't even aware they exist.

I doubt it was built to the RCD - I'd not even be sure that the Sabb engine would be RCD approved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Quote

I'm struggling to find an engineer in the Herts area so I might have to do it all myself. 

Where in the Herts area are you? There is a guy that I use who does a lot of work on canal boats in the Rickmansworth area and surrounds. He is also part of RCR I believe. Very knowledgeable generally. He should be able to help with most things. PM me if you'd like to contact him. If he can't do the electrics, he's sure to know someone who can in the marine world.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

BUT...

 

There is no obligation on anyone installing gas or electrics later, to do it in accordance with RCD.

 

15mm rigid copper for gas piping and solid core household copper cabling is fine for BSS. 

House twin and earth ok for BSS if cleated off very regularly. something like every 6'' I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.