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Help to pass BSS and electrical issues


B2019

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17 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I think it was Alan who had to fit a new Consumer Unit before his examiner would issue a certificate. No amount of waving the BSS guide at the examiner had any effect. “Do you want the certificate? Then fit this or I shan’t give you one!”

You think correctly (but it was an RCD)

 

"I can give you a fail, or you can fit one and get a pass - you have paid up-front so I don't care either way".

Nipped down to the local electrical wholesaler, fitted it, he called in 'later' and said have you fitted one? I replied I had and he wrote out the certificate.

 

I have no confidence in the calibre of people involved in the BSS, I complained to the 'office' and was told that they would take action and improve the level of training. I asked if I would be informed of any outcome and was told no - it will, be handled internally and will be confidential.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You think correctly.

 

"I can give you a fail, or you can fit one and get a pass - you have paid up-front so I don't care either way".

Nipped down to the local electrical wholesaler, fitted it, he called in 'later' and said have you fitted one? I replied I had and he wrote out the certificate.

 

I have no confidence in the calibre of people involved in the BSS, I complained to the 'office' and was told that they would take action and improve the level of training. I asked if I would be informed of any outcome and was told no - it will, be handled internally and will be confidential.

 

 

Did you put the old one back once he had done the damn stifficate? 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Did you put the old one back once he had done the damn stifficate? 

 

 

There wasn't one to put back.

 

The BSS has an RCD down as an 'advisory' not a 'required' item.

(A in the text indicates an advisory item)

 

3.9.2
Do all a.c. electrical circuits pass through a consumer unit?  (A)

Check that all a.c. electrical circuits pass through a consumer unit
(also known as fuse/circuit‐breaker box or distribution board).

 

NOTE ‐ examiners are encouraged to confirm during prior dealings with the owner, the location of the
consumer unit.
Advice for owners – it is strongly advised that a Residual Current Device (RCD) is installed to provide
appropriate electric shock protection on a.c. systems.
NOTE – for the purpose of this check residual current breakers with overcurrent protection (RCBOs) may be
considered an acceptable alternative to a consumer unit.
NOTE – in cases where the only power source is via a shore‐power lead, an acceptable alternative to a
consumer unit is a MCB or RCBO incorporated within the lead.

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  • 4 weeks later...
6 minutes ago, B2019 said:

Does anyone know whether this fuel tank would be BSS compliant?

 

 

https://www.tcschandlery.co.uk/mobile/large-capacity-fuel-tanks-33ltr/p11344

I would not risk t unless I was holding a certificate from the makers that stated it complied with the relevant BSS fire safety standard. The standard is on the BSS website unless someone knows it by heart.

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21 minutes ago, B2019 said:

Does anyone know whether this fuel tank would be BSS compliant?

 

 

https://www.tcschandlery.co.uk/mobile/large-capacity-fuel-tanks-33ltr/p11344

If this is being used for an Outboard then as long as it is CE marked as suitable for marine use it should be OK

The BSS has very little to say about OB fuel tanks.

 

If you intend to use it as a 'permanently installed' tank to supply a permanently installed engine and replace the 'built in tank' you will need to meet the whole raft of requirements in BSS Section 2 and Appendix F

Edit to Add :

The BSS requirements change (get more difficult) for tanks over 27 litres.

 

EG - You may have problems achieving this requirement if the tank is just 'sat' on your rear deck:

 

2.1.1
Does the location and condition of the fuel filling point ensure that any fuel overflow is
prevented from entering the interior of the vessel?

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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57 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If this is being used for an Outboard then as long as it is CE marked as suitable for marine use it should be OK

The BSS has very little to say about OB fuel tanks.

 

If you intend to use it as a 'permanently installed' tank to supply a permanently installed engine and replace the 'built in tank' you will need to meet the whole raft of requirements in BSS Section 2 and Appendix F

Edit to Add :

The BSS requirements change (get more difficult) for tanks over 27 litres.

 

EG - You may have problems achieving this requirement if the tank is just 'sat' on your rear deck:

 

2.1.1
Does the location and condition of the fuel filling point ensure that any fuel overflow is
prevented from entering the interior of the vessel?

If I find a little fuel tank under 27 litres does that make things easier. 

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9 minutes ago, B2019 said:

If I find a little fuel tank under 27 litres does that make things easier. 

I am not qualified to answer that - I can only point you towards the requirements.

The BSS refers to the RCD requirements,

so you really need to check what is needed for what you are planning to do.

 

WHAT are you planning to do, what is the tank to be used for,(outboard or inboard engine), what fuel are you planning to use,  how will you secure the tank, etc etc etc.

 

The BSS is online - just read section 2 and Appendix F.

 

Just an example :

 

2.4.2
Is the fuel tank vent outlet fitted with an effective flame arrester or flame‐arresting gauze?

NOTE – the small hole in the filler cap as provided by the original engine or fuel tank manufacturer, on fuel
tanks of no more than 27 litres capacity, is deemed to meet this requirement.

 

I do not want to be the person responsible for saying 'Yes its OK'

Refer to the documentation or a BSS / RCD examiner.

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3 hours ago, B2019 said:

Does anyone know whether this fuel tank would be BSS compliant?

 

 

https://www.tcschandlery.co.uk/mobile/large-capacity-fuel-tanks-33ltr/p11344

Why that one? Its neither one thing nor t'other. At 33 litres its too big to benefit from the exemptions which apply to tanks under 27 litres, but it doesn't hold a great deal more fuel, so you will still be refuelling fairly frequently.

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16 minutes ago, B2019 said:

I've found a fuel tank that is compliant. I'm not fitting an air vent to the tank but to the fuel cap. If I fit one of these fuel tank will it be compliant with the BSS as an air vent. https://www.asap-supplies.com/perko-deck-filler-0540dpgchr

You seem to be going an expensive, complicated and 'bodge' method of doing something.

 

What are you actually trying to achieve ?

Is it a diesel or petrol engine ?

 

Remember that if petrol, you can legally only 'carry' a maximum of 30 litres in 'loose tanks'

 

If you store petrol at home, or at a club/association or similar premises

What if I only store a small amount of petrol?

You can store up to 30 litres of petrol at home or at non-workplace premises without  informing your local Petroleum Enforcement Authority (PEA).

You can store it in:

  • suitable portable metal or plastic containers
  • one demountable fuel tank
  • a combination of the above as long as no more than 30 litres is kept

For these purposes 'premises' are as defined in the Health and Safety Work Act, etc. 1974 and includes, for example, motor vehicles, boats and aircraft.

 

How much petrol can I store on a vehicle?

You can store up to 30 litres of petrol in a maximum of 2 suitable containers in your vehicle.  For the purpose of these Regulations a ‘vehicle’ is interpreted as any type of vehicle so includes boats, aircraft and hovercraft. This type of storage counts towards the total you can store at non workplace premises. Carriage of petrol is covered by the Carriage of Dangerous Goods (CDG) and the European agreement (ADR).

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petrol-storage-club-association.htm

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You seem to be going an expensive, complicated and 'bodge' method of doing something.

 

What are you actually trying to achieve ?

Is it a diesel or petrol engine ?

 

Remember that if petrol, you can legally only 'carry' a maximum of 30 litres in 'loose tanks'

 

If you store petrol at home, or at a club/association or similar premises

What if I only store a small amount of petrol?

You can store up to 30 litres of petrol at home or at non-workplace premises without  informing your local Petroleum Enforcement Authority (PEA).

You can store it in:

  • suitable portable metal or plastic containers
  • one demountable fuel tank
  • a combination of the above as long as no more than 30 litres is kept

For these purposes 'premises' are as defined in the Health and Safety Work Act, etc. 1974 and includes, for example, motor vehicles, boats and aircraft.

 

How much petrol can I store on a vehicle?

You can store up to 30 litres of petrol in a maximum of 2 suitable containers in your vehicle.  For the purpose of these Regulations a ‘vehicle’ is interpreted as any type of vehicle so includes boats, aircraft and hovercraft. This type of storage counts towards the total you can store at non workplace premises. Carriage of petrol is covered by the Carriage of Dangerous Goods (CDG) and the European agreement (ADR).

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petrol-storage-club-association.htm

Sorry I've put through the wrong link. I was meant to post the diesel cap version not the petrol one.  https://www.asap-supplies.com/perko-deck-filler-0540dpdchr

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11 minutes ago, B2019 said:

Sorry I've put through the wrong link. I was meant to post the diesel cap version not the petrol one.  https://www.asap-supplies.com/perko-deck-filler-0540dpdchr

OK - assume its diesel - but what are you trying to overcome, what problem do you have, why do you need to bodge-up an outboard plastic tank ?

 

There are 1000's of years of boating experience on this forum, explain the problem and someone will have already had it, and overcome it.

 

The forum is a great resource - use it.

 

If you don't respond I'll assume you are 'sorted'.

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26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You seem to be going an expensive, complicated and 'bodge' method of doing something.

 

What are you actually trying to achieve ?

Is it a diesel or petrol engine ?

 

Remember that if petrol, you can legally only 'carry' a maximum of 30 litres in 'loose tanks'

 

If you store petrol at home, or at a club/association or similar premises

What if I only store a small amount of petrol?

You can store up to 30 litres of petrol at home or at non-workplace premises without  informing your local Petroleum Enforcement Authority (PEA).

You can store it in:

  • suitable portable metal or plastic containers
  • one demountable fuel tank
  • a combination of the above as long as no more than 30 litres is kept

For these purposes 'premises' are as defined in the Health and Safety Work Act, etc. 1974 and includes, for example, motor vehicles, boats and aircraft.

 

How much petrol can I store on a vehicle?

You can store up to 30 litres of petrol in a maximum of 2 suitable containers in your vehicle.  For the purpose of these Regulations a ‘vehicle’ is interpreted as any type of vehicle so includes boats, aircraft and hovercraft. This type of storage counts towards the total you can store at non workplace premises. Carriage of petrol is covered by the Carriage of Dangerous Goods (CDG) and the European agreement (ADR).

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petrol-storage-club-association.htm

https://www.asap-supplies.com/perko-deck-filler-0540dpgchr

 

 

 

Ok cool so.... I've taken out my old diesel tank as it's not BSS compliant. Fuel outlet and inlet both come out of the bottom of the tank and there's no air vent on the tank going to the outside of the boat.  Turns out it's a tank off an old truck. I've got two options: tank the old tank to a boat yard, get it adapted and then drill a new air vent hole in the boat. Second and easier ( more expensive option maybe) - buy a new BSS CE approved compliant fuel tank and fit new air vent fuel cap. 

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1 minute ago, B2019 said:

https://www.asap-supplies.com/perko-deck-filler-0540dpgchr

 

 

 

Ok cool so.... I've taken out my old diesel tank as it's not BSS compliant. Fuel outlet and inlet both come out of the bottom of the tank and there's no air vent on the tank going to the outside of the boat.  Turns out it's a tank off an old truck. I've got two options: tank the old tank to a boat yard, get it adapted and then drill a new air vent hole in the boat. Second and easier ( more expensive option maybe) - buy a new BSS CE approved compliant fuel tank and fit new air vent fuel cap. 

Its obviously difficult without seeing the actual boat - but - many for boats the tank is simply the hull of the boat with a piece welded across the back end to form the 4th side (if you follow me).

Are you planning on putting the 'new' tank in the place of the 'old' tank, or just letting it sit on the rear deck, or ………………….?????

 

Is this a steel Narrow Boat or a GRP cruiser

 

Where has it been for the last 20+ years, why has it not needed a BSS, or, has it previously passed ?

 

If you are still looking at that 33 litre plastic tank - just consider that at 1.5 litres diesel per hour you only have 20 hours 'range' and to avoid the possibility of running out you'd probably need to 'fill up' virtually every day.

 

Do you have any form of diesel heating ? (this would use another litre per hour)

 

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Its obviously difficult without seeing the actual boat - but - many for boats the tank is simply the hull of the boat with a piece welded across the back end to form the 4th side (if you follow me).

Are you planning on putting the 'new' tank in the place of the 'old' tank, or just letting it sit on the rear deck, or ………………….?????

 

Is this a steel Narrow Boat or a GRP cruiser

 

Where has it been for the last 20+ years, why has it not needed a BSS, or, has it previously passed ?

 

If you are still looking at that 33 litre plastic tank - just consider that at 1.5 litres diesel per hour you only have 20 hours 'range' and to avoid the possibility of running out you'd probably need to 'fill up' virtually every day.

 

Do you have any form of diesel heating ? (this would use another litre per hour)

 

The new tank will go where the old tank is. They do another tank that will fit in which is 41 litres. First BSS on the boat. 

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4 minutes ago, B2019 said:

The new tank will go where the old tank is. They do another tank that will fit in which is 41 litres. First BSS on the boat. 

Your boat, your choice but personally I'd go with a conventional type of 'built in tank'.

 

You are looking at spending £200+ to get all the vents, pipes, bits & pieces and a 40 litre tank (say 35 litres usable) that you are going to need to fill every couple of days (or so) and I reckon that you may have some work to do to convince an examiner that its all compliant.

Anything out of the ordinary is always a 'no-no', remember these people are often not qualified engineers (marine or otherwise)

 

Assuming it is a steel NB.

 

For £200 you could get a lot of welding & cutting done and end up with a 300-500 litre tank that is 'simple' and fully compliant

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29 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Your boat, your choice but personally I'd go with a conventional type of 'built in tank'.

 

You are looking at spending £200+ to get all the vents, pipes, bits & pieces and a 40 litre tank (say 35 litres usable) that you are going to need to fill every couple of days (or so) and I reckon that you may have some work to do to convince an examiner that its all compliant.

Anything out of the ordinary is always a 'no-no', remember these people are often not qualified engineers (marine or otherwise)

 

Assuming it is a steel NB.

 

For £200 you could get a lot of welding & cutting done and end up with a 300-500 litre tank that is 'simple' and fully compliant

It's only a small boat. It's never going to be able to hold 300-500 litres of fuel. 60 litres will be the max for the space I have. I'm getting everything order from a BSS officer who works at Boutlers Chandley. 

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I would second the advice from Alan of finding a local welder, there's a few knocking about on boats, to weld in 2 or 3 sheets of steel to make the permanent tank.

I'd be surprised if this were harder than fitting and securing a "auxiliary" tank.

 

Also, I'm not sure where you are located, but I have a hydraulic crimp tool you're welcome to borrow should you wish to redo some of the electrics yourself. I can offer some advice too.

I'm on the Tring summit at the moment, heading towards Berkhamsted.

 

P.S. your engine looks awesome!!!!

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9 hours ago, B2019 said:

Sorry I've put through the wrong link. I was meant to post the diesel cap version not the petrol one.  https://www.asap-supplies.com/perko-deck-filler-0540dpdchr

Just ensure that you comply with rule 2.1.1:

 

Fuel overflowing from filling points must be prevented from entering any part of the interior of the vessel.
Accordingly, fuel filling points must be positioned so that...

 the camber or configuration of the deck; or,
 a coaming; or,
 a diverter arrangement;
...causes any overflow to discharge overboard;

 

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2 hours ago, WotEver said:

Just ensure that you comply with rule 2.1.1:

 

Fuel overflowing from filling points must be prevented from entering any part of the interior of the vessel.
Accordingly, fuel filling points must be positioned so that...

 the camber or configuration of the deck; or,
 a coaming; or,
 a diverter arrangement;
...causes any overflow to discharge overboard;

 

That was my concern with fitting the 'cap' and breather on top of the plastic tank in the existing (below deck ?) space.

 

I re-iterate, look at getting a proper tank built in the stern of the hull, with conventional fill and breather points.

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