C&RT .... Should they be more active in making the owners of over staying boats move.

[Neil2]

3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Has any of the many people who have contributed to this thread actually tried putting any of their concerns, complaints or suggestions to anybody in CRT?

 

If so what response if any did you get?

If you haven't do you accept that discussing it on here will not change anything - all you are doing is letting of steam!

 

I've done it quite a few times, mostly when someone is really taking the p***, and the response is usually that the complaint has been passed on to an enforcement officer.  I've never had any feedback ie what actually happened to the rogue moorer but one such I recently noticed had moved from a prime spot near a convenient road bridge to a spot in the middle of nowhere so I guess he/she had their card well and truly marked.

 

You get the odd boat that doesn't have a reg number or even a name but it's pretty easy to give an accurate description or take a photo.

 

Talking to other boaters I get the impression that most feel it should be up to CRT alone to police the system, or they don't care that much to bother sending a complaint.  But it takes no time at all to fire off an email, certainly no longer than it takes to post on CWDF.      

[dor]

8 hours ago, magictime said:

Sorry, but what's 'pointless' about it? As CCers, we definitely appreciate having more good 14 day moorings available in winter.

The whole canal (well mostly) is 14 days.  How much space do you want?  There is normal towpath mooring next to the visitor moorings, and only a little further to the aqueduct if you want to go into the town (actually at the southern end, the normal towpath is nearer to the town than the visitor moorings if you go by Marsh Lane).

[magictime]

52 minutes ago, dor said:

The whole canal (well mostly) is 14 days.  How much space do you want?  There is normal towpath mooring next to the visitor moorings, and only a little further to the aqueduct if you want to go into the town (actually at the southern end, the normal towpath is nearer to the town than the visitor moorings if you go by Marsh Lane).

Sorry, I thought you were making a general point. I wasn't talking about a particular area.

[dor]

1 hour ago, magictime said:

Sorry, I thought you were making a general point. I wasn't talking about a particular area.

No problem.   It is just irritating at Nantwich when you see several boats spend several months on the visitor moorings, taking up space that could be available for visitors when there is a very nearby length of winter moorings which remained unused.

[magictime]

7 hours ago, dor said:

No problem.   It is just irritating at Nantwich when you see several boats spend several months on the visitor moorings, taking up space that could be available for visitors when there is a very nearby length of winter moorings which remained unused.

I can see that, although it does sound as if the problem is very much caused by overstayers rather than visitors making legitimate use of the longer, 14 day limit. The usual restrictions are presumably lifted over winter because CRT feel it's just not necessary or appropriate to apply them at a time of year when holiday boating has slowed to a trickle, and CCers have poor weather and multiple long-term stoppages to contend with - which seems right to me.

 

(NB I'm not saying that CCers can't be expected to keep moving over winter, just that it surely becomes more reasonable to move not very far and not very often.)

[sirweste]

Towpath being sold off so that CCers can ignore the law during the winter really irks me. In winter you really want to be in a spot that's closer to a bridge / car parking / other convenience, to try and minimise the length of muddy rain strewn walk you have to contend with. So to have several of the best bits sold off is rather frustrating.

[LadyG]

On 23/05/2019 at 00:52, dor said:

No problem.   It is just irritating at Nantwich when you see several boats spend several months on the visitor moorings, taking up space that could be available for visitors when there is a very nearby length of winter moorings which remained unused.

presumably they have to pay for winter moorings and V moorings are free.

Just, drop a stink bomb in their engine intake every night, they'll soon move.

[Momac]

Most overstayers that prompted my original post have moved. I have not contacted C&RT So perhaps they are reading this.

There has been shuffling about on the same length of pontoon which doesn't really count as moving does it ? I would not ask anyone to move today . It's too windy. No complaints as there are some spaces aviailable for visitors today  .

We have moved up from Cromwell . Nether lock was interesting in the wind .

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

On 24/05/2019 at 14:46, sirweste said:

Towpath being sold off so that CCers can ignore the law during the winter really irks me. In winter you really want to be in a spot that's closer to a bridge / car parking / other convenience, to try and minimise the length of muddy rain strewn walk you have to contend with. So to have several of the best bits sold off is rather frustrating.

I don’t understand what your first sentence means. 

Can you explain? 

I am slow ?

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I don’t understand what your first sentence means. 

Can you explain? 

I am slow ?

C&RT are taking 'protection money' saying you don't need to honour your agreement to move every 14 days if you pay us money

 

NABO (National Association of Boat Owners) legal advice was that in fact the Winter moorings are (could be) illegal.

 

Of further interest NABO noted that http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/4434.pdf paragraph 57 under the heading “Throughout the period … without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days …”

CRTs legal team stated  : 57. Section 17(3)(c)(ii) of the 1995 Act additionally requires that the “bona fide navigation” is “throughout” the period of the licence, which would ordinarily be for a period of 12 months, but will be for at least 3 months. This again emphasises the requirement of a genuine passage or transit for the entirety of the duration of the licence.  

 In NABO’s view the above defence would appear to strongly argue against the case of the introduction of Roving or Community Mooring Permits as advocated by CRT or indeed Towpath Winter Mooring Permits.

[Paul C]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

C&RT are taking 'protection money' saying you don't need to honour your agreement to move every 14 days if you pay us money

 

NABO (National Association of Boat Owners) legal advice was that in fact the Winter moorings are (could be) illegal.

 

Of further interest NABO noted that http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/4434.pdf paragraph 57 under the heading “Throughout the period … without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days …”

 

CRTs legal team stated  : 57. Section 17(3)(c)(ii) of the 1995 Act additionally requires that the “bona fide navigation” is “throughout” the period of the licence, which would ordinarily be for a period of 12 months, but will be for at least 3 months. This again emphasises the requirement of a genuine passage or transit for the entirety of the duration of the licence.  

 

 In NABO’s view the above defence would appear to strongly argue against the case of the introduction of Roving or Community Mooring Permits as advocated by CRT or indeed Towpath Winter Mooring Permits.

 

 

I can't see the difference between a winter mooring and any other paid-for mooring. You take the mooring and you have a mooring. If you don't have a mooring (or other place where the boat can be kept blah blah blah) then you're a CCer. If you do then you're not.

[nbfiresprite]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

C&RT are taking 'protection money' saying you don't need to honour your agreement to move every 14 days if you pay us money

 

 

Protection money  Money paid, especially at regular intervals, to criminals or to corrupt officials who threaten to cause harm to the payer or to his or her property  if the money is not paid. So are C&RT running a protection racket?

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

C&RT are taking 'protection money' saying you don't need to honour your agreement to move every 14 days if you pay us money

 

NABO (National Association of Boat Owners) legal advice was that in fact the Winter moorings are (could be) illegal.

 

Of further interest NABO noted that http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/4434.pdf paragraph 57 under the heading “Throughout the period … without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days …”

 

CRTs legal team stated  : 57. Section 17(3)(c)(ii) of the 1995 Act additionally requires that the “bona fide navigation” is “throughout” the period of the licence, which would ordinarily be for a period of 12 months, but will be for at least 3 months. This again emphasises the requirement of a genuine passage or transit for the entirety of the duration of the licence.  

 

 In NABO’s view the above defence would appear to strongly argue against the case of the introduction of Roving or Community Mooring Permits as advocated by CRT or indeed Towpath Winter Mooring Permits.

 

Ok. Got it. (I am slow) I remember this being discussed before. 

 

But rather than stating the towpath  (bank) is being sold off it’d be more acurate to say it’s being ‘rented out’ for a temporary period? 

 

I can understand the cynical ‘protection money’ angle. Or maybe it’s a compromise? 

 

Either way the winter moorings offered by CRT are usually poor offerings. 

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Goliath

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, nbfiresprite said:

So are C&RT running a protection racket?

Some would suggest they are.

 

"pay up and we wont take any action to revoke your licence, or, move on"

[nbfiresprite]

45 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Some would suggest they are.

 

"pay up and we wont take any action to revoke your licence, or, move on"

You be talking to the Batton Tossers.