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Recently I have considered changing the domestic batteries on my boat, and looking at new technology, lithium iron has a distinct advantage. If you have a 400 AMPH lead acid battery bank you only get to use 200AMPS because lead acid don't like giving you more than 50% of capacity lead acid will give warning that there voltage is dropping, and the longer you run them the more you damage them. lead acid needs to be kept fully charged when not in use. I must I have nurtured my batteries because I have got 10 years out of them. 

400 AMPH lithium iron battery bank will give you 400AMPS but then they are flat no warning but it does not damage them the only problem is they are expensive has anyone found a good supply yet

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10 minutes ago, robby said:

Recently I have considered changing the domestic batteries on my boat, and looking at new technology, lithium iron has a distinct advantage. If you have a 400 AMPH lead acid battery bank you only get to use 200AMPS because lead acid don't like giving you more than 50% of capacity lead acid will give warning that there voltage is dropping, and the longer you run them the more you damage them. lead acid needs to be kept fully charged when not in use. I must I have nurtured my batteries because I have got 10 years out of them. 

400 AMPH lithium iron battery bank will give you 400AMPS but then they are flat no warning but it does not damage them the only problem is they are expensive has anyone found a good supply yet

It does damage them I have LifePo4s and overcharging and undercharging is detrimental to their health and your pocket!!

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Its sesnsible to compare lithiums with proper lead acids, such as Trojans or full tractions, its not really valid to compare them with cheapo leisures.

 

Trojans will go down to 20% charge and will likely survive if you accidentally go a bit lower, they can handle a fair bit of over-charging and contrary to forum "wisdom" can be left semi discharged for many days and still recover.

 

Some people reckon lithiums should be kept below 80% charge so the useful capacity is the same, and if you mostly charge lead acids to 80%, and only 100% once a week or so, then the fast charge advantage of lithiums looks marginal.

 

I am not anti-lithium, if I live long enough then I will get some, but at present if compared on a like for like basis they look very expensive.

If you have poor access or otherwise are unwilling to top up lead acids, and don't want to equalise from time to time, then the argument maybe swings in favour of lithiums but they must have a suitable and reliable management system.

 

................Dave

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28 minutes ago, robby said:

Recently I have considered changing the domestic batteries on my boat, and looking at new technology, lithium iron has a distinct advantage. If you have a 400 AMPH lead acid battery bank you only get to use 200AMPS because lead acid don't like giving you more than 50% of capacity lead acid will give warning that there voltage is dropping, and the longer you run them the more you damage them. lead acid needs to be kept fully charged when not in use. I must I have nurtured my batteries because I have got 10 years out of them. 

400 AMPH lithium iron battery bank will give you 400AMPS but then they are flat no warning but it does not damage them the only problem is they are expensive has anyone found a good supply yet

I think you are mistaken - From what I have read you should not charge to more than about 80% and must not discharge below 20%.

You MUST not charge at low temperatures.

 

You are paying X times the price and only getting about 60% of the capacity wen you get 50% of the capacity from FLA's. 

 

For me it is too early on the product life cycle curve.

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35 minutes ago, robby said:

400 AMPH lithium iron battery bank will give you 400AMPS

 

I'm not sure if you mean they will give you 400A or 400AH. If the latter, this isn't right. Or it is, but you risk damaging the batteries as getting them to 100% risks overcharging which damages them.

 

38 minutes ago, robby said:

but then they are flat no warning but it does not damage them

 

Not so sure about discharging to 0%, but I rather think that is very bad for them too. Where do you get the idea that it does not damage them, please? 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, dmr said:

Its sesnsible to compare lithiums with proper lead acids, such as Trojans or full tractions, its not really valid to compare them with cheapo leisures.

 

Trojans will go down to 20% charge and will likely survive if you accidentally go a bit lower, they can handle a fair bit of over-charging and contrary to forum "wisdom" can be left semi discharged for many days and still recover.

 

Some people reckon lithiums should be kept below 80% charge so the useful capacity is the same, and if you mostly charge lead acids to 80%, and only 100% once a week or so, then the fast charge advantage of lithiums looks marginal.

 

I am not anti-lithium, if I live long enough then I will get some, but at present if compared on a like for like basis they look very expensive.

If you have poor access or otherwise are unwilling to top up lead acids, and don't want to equalise from time to time, then the argument maybe swings in favour of lithiums but they must have a suitable and reliable management system.

 

................Dave

My illtreated Trojans lasted 7 years so this year I changed them for a new set. If they last me over another 7 years then they will see my boating time out. I cant see me still boating at 78 years old. 

18 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Not so sure about discharging to 0%, but I rather think that is very bad for them too. Where do you get the idea that it does not damage them, please? 

 

 

I thought their control pack cut them out before they got to zero

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11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I thought their control pack cut them out before they got to zero

 

Quite.

 

If they are not damaged, why do they need a controls pack to disconnect before 0% state of charge?

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, dmr said:

Its sesnsible to compare lithiums with proper lead acids, such as Trojans or full tractions, its not really valid to compare them with cheapo leisures.

 

Trojans will go down to 20% charge and will likely survive if you accidentally go a bit lower, they can handle a fair bit of over-charging and contrary to forum "wisdom" can be left semi discharged for many days and still recover.

 

Some people reckon lithiums should be kept below 80% charge so the useful capacity is the same, and if you mostly charge lead acids to 80%, and only 100% once a week or so, then the fast charge advantage of lithiums looks marginal.

 

I am not anti-lithium, if I live long enough then I will get some, but at present if compared on a like for like basis they look very expensive.

If you have poor access or otherwise are unwilling to top up lead acids, and don't want to equalise from time to time, then the argument maybe swings in favour of lithiums but they must have a suitable and reliable management system.

 

................Dave

 

43 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I think you are mistaken - From what I have read you should not charge to more than about 80% and must not discharge below 20%.

You MUST not charge at low temperatures.

 

You are paying X times the price and only getting about 60% of the capacity wen you get 50% of the capacity from FLA's. 

 

For me it is too early on the product life cycle curve.

They charge fast very fast so can save you a lot of money on fuel, and as long as you look after them they will do 5000 cycles plus so work out cheaper than LAs of any form, as for full tractions they will die as fast as cheap LAs if you undercharge them and leave them for anything over a few days isnt that right Mike?

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5 minutes ago, peterboat said:

 

They charge fast very fast so can save you a lot of money on fuel, and as long as you look after them they will do 5000 cycles plus so work out cheaper than LAs of any form, as for full tractions they will die as fast as cheap LAs if you undercharge them and leave them for anything over a few days isnt that right Mike?

 

I don't know, mine are still under the bed unconnected and unused!

 

Running the Whispergen once a night has been keeping my knackered old Trojanoids working fine through winter and now the solar does it, so I've not felt the need to commission them yet. Partly also due to the need to design my own monitoring and control system. CBA to be honest, while the Trojanoids limp along apparently forever!

 

 

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21 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

My illtreated Trojans lasted 7 years so this year I changed them for a new set. If they last me over another 7 years then they will see my boating time out. I cant see me still boating at 78 years old.

Last winter we saw an old continuous cruising bloke getting "forcibly" removed by CRT welfare people and his family. I think he was 85 and wanted to continue but his family were concerned about him. I think he said he was 85. I  heard the plan was to move his boat to a marina so he could still have some use of it.

 

.............Dave

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I don't know, mine are still under the bed unconnected and unused!

 

Running the Whispergen once a night is still keeping my knackered old Trojanoids working fine, so I've not felt the need to commission them yet. Partly also due to the need to design my own monitoring and control system. CBA to be honest, while the Trojanoids limp along apparently forever!

 

 

I am on about your knackered trojanoids!!

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1 minute ago, peterboat said:

I am on about your knackered trojanoids!!

 

Oh right, yes it is! 

 

Am I allowed to point out WHY mine were left underchanged? Or can everyone perhaps remember?

 

 

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

Last winter we saw an old continuous cruising bloke getting "forcibly" removed by CRT welfare people and his family. I think he was 85 and wanted to continue but his family were concerned about him. I think he said he was 85. I  heard the plan was to move his boat to a marina so he could still have some use of it.

 

.............Dave

But I have to drive a couple of hundred miles to get to the boat

 

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Just now, ditchcrawler said:

But I have to drive a couple of hundred miles to get to the boat

 

 

I think you should stop boating in the Father Christmas outfit or they might use it as a reason to refuse you a CC license too!

 

(Just kidding. You look GREAT in it!) 

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15 minutes ago, WotEver said:

... and how much money they had to throw at Victron to get it all finally up and running. 

 

The link goes to solar panel installation for me, not lithium installation.

 

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The link goes to solar panel installation for me, not lithium installation.

 

You have to read the April posts and some of the May posts to get the full story.

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1 minute ago, Rob-M said:

You have to read the April posts and some of the May posts to get the full story.

 

Oh right. I found myself overwhelmed by the dullness after reading just the first day...

 

 

"We then run some wires in the engine room and sorted out where things were going to go for fitment tomorrow.."

 

I gave up at this point...

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Oh right. I found myself overwhelmed by the dullness after reading just the first day...

 

 

"We then run some wires in the engine room and sorted out where things were going to go for fitment tomorrow.."

 

I gave up at this point...

It is dull, and the explanations muddled. You have to scroll to the bottom of each page (below the comments) and hit the left-facing arrow to get to the next day etc etc. Upshot is that they had a full Victron install but required a B-to-B for reasons that weren’t clear to me but had something to do with their boat being 24V. It was then determined that the alternator required a new regulator. It was then determined that the Sterling B-to-B wasn’t up to the job so they installed a Victron Buck-Boost instead and then it all worked. Or something like that. No costs were mentioned. 

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2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

It is dull, and the explanations muddled. You have to scroll to the bottom of each page (below the comments) and hit the left-facing arrow to get to the next day etc etc. Upshot is that they had a full Victron install but required a B-to-B for reasons that weren’t clear to me but had something to do with their boat being 24V. It was then determined that the alternator required a new regulator. It was then determined that the Sterling B-to-B wasn’t up to the job so they installed a Victron Buck-Boost instead and then it all worked. Or something like that. No costs were mentioned. 

 

Hmmm. Thanks for saving me ploughing through it. Sounds like even Victron don't have a proper idiot-proof solution rolled out yet then. 

 

 

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