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Victron Inverter Query


Glynn

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Hi, I have a Victron Phoenix Multi 12/2500 120. The reverse polarity light an a panel is lit up but only when on Inverter mode ( Not on Shore Power ) Although the inverter is working as it should it seems. I removed the front cover and noticed there are 2 fuses, one being a large flat bolted in fuse, the other looks like a cylindrical car type clip in fuse. I did a continuity test on this clip in fuse and got no reading. Could this fuse be causing the reverse polarity light issue, although the inverter appears to be working ok ??.

My electrician called someone at a Victron tech support place and they told him the way its working is correct.

I need to know what this fuse is for, there is no reference to it in the book.

 

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One possibility is that both the shore connection and the Victron are wired reverse polarity! When on shore power, most Victron inverters go in to pass-through mode and connect the shore line direct to the output, perhaps boosting it with the inverter in extremis. This would explain the reverse polarity light being off on shore power (reversed twice, so back the way it should be), but lit on inverter (reversed once). A Live/Neutral reverse in the shore line could be anywhere from the bollard, shore line, boat connection, through to the inverter input.

No idea what the fuse is for. Did you continuity test it removed from the inverter? Testing in situ might give misleading results.

 

Jen

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The shore cable is new and Ive tried others.

All the wires are correctly connected.

Its had a new incoming mains socket fitted this week.

 

Everything IS connected correctly, yet it show polarity reversed on the AC side but ONLY when running off the inverter to power the mains sockets.

Testing all the sockets with a plug in socket tester show Correct operation on Shore Power and reverse polarity on Inverter power.

 

I did a continuity test on the fuse but I didnt remove it.

 

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8 minutes ago, Glynn said:

Testing all the sockets with a plug in socket tester show Correct operation on Shore Power and reverse polarity on Inverter power.

It can only be that the Inverter 230v is wired up 'backwards'.

Either, in the unit itself (factory fault), or, in the attaching of the boat circuit to the inverter (installer error).

 

I don't see any other possibility.

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If this info is of any use, before installing our Victron 24-3000-70 the supplier warned me not install the Victron's main fuse until the warning light (supplied by the small fuse) indicated that the battery supply was the correct polarity. I was told the inverter wasn't protected against incorrect battery polarity hence the precautionary measure. 

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I suppose one test I could do is,

remove the outgoing AC cable and replace this with an extension cable, then plug the mains tester into the extension and see what happens.

That would rule out any wiring on the boat ?.

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I’m wondering if it can be a neutral-earth bonding thing. Reverse polarity lights work by looking for voltage between N and E. If the NE bonding is not selected on the inverter setting, the L and N will be floating and perhaps another piece of equipment is tending to pull N away from E. Probably not with the full 230v or whatever, but with enough voltage to illuminate the light.

 

If you are competent with live mains, I would measure the voltage between the N and E output terminals at the inverter. Using a voltmeter set to AC volts and with the inverter inverting. There should be zero volts. Whilst at it, check voltage between L and E - should be around 230v or whatever.

 

I suppose it is possible that the rogue fuse you are concerned about, is in the NE bond circuit and since it has blown, the NE Bond is no longer in effect (just guessing). When on shore power, the NE bond is disconnected anyway.

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1 minute ago, Glynn said:

I think you "might" be on the right track, this is tan from another Victron manual ( not sure what model as its all I could find on this )

But it does mention a fuse for this purpose.image.png.d628b5c7c3d5af45429691fb86a23466.png

To be honest I think in that context, “reverse polarity” probably means of the batteries. But anyway, worth checking the points in my last post.

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58 minutes ago, Glynn said:

Nicknorman,

The readings, taken at both the inverter AC out and at a socket on the boat.

 L + N  235v

N + E 88

L + E 102

 

Look forward to your opinion.

 

It isn’t N-E bonded. 

 

The instruction manual should explain how to set the bonding. 

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1 hour ago, Glynn said:

Cant find any reference to NE bonding, any chance of explaining it ?

Mains power on land has the neutral feed connected to a great big spike (or plate) in the ground. This puts neutral at the same potential as the earth and it’s why you’d get a shock if you stand on the ground and grab hold of a live wire. 

 

Inverters do not by default have the neutral wire connected (bonded) to the earth wire and so if you want your RCD to operate correctly then you have to arrange for that bond to be in place. With some inverters you might link N-E in the plug that plugs into it, others have a removable link inside, some cannot be bonded at all due to how they operate. The Victron Multiplus has a relay specifically for this purpose but it must be configured as per the instructions. 

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2 hours ago, WotEver said:

The Victron Multiplus has a relay specifically for this purpose but it must be configured as per the instructions. 

I seem to remember that some early ones had the relay but it wasn't implemented in the software, from memory needs to be software version 18xxxx or later for it to work 17xxxx didn't have it. But it may have been 19xxxx ;)

Assuming of course I am thinking of the right Victron product .

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15 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I seem to remember that some early ones had the relay but it wasn't implemented in the software, from memory needs to be software version 18xxxx or later for it to work 17xxxx didn't have it. But it may have been 19xxxx ;)

Assuming of course I am thinking of the right Victron product .

That’s all quite possible. Kevin or Wag at Onboard Energy (Springwood Haven) would probably know. 

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9 hours ago, Glynn said:

Nicknorman,

The readings, taken at both the inverter AC out and at a socket on the boat.

 L + N  235v

N + E 88

L + E 102

 

Look forward to your opinion.

 

Wot Wotever said! With 88v between N and E, the reverse polarity light is bound to be on, even if not at full brightness. You will also note that L+E plus E+N does not equal L+N, showing that the inverter output is pretty much floating. Protection by the RCD is thus lost.

 

You need to enable the NE bond setting in the inverter or repair it if broken.

Edited by nicknorman
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34 minutes ago, Glynn said:

According to Victron I need to enable the ground relay to ON which can be done with a dip switch so they say. But which one ? and how ?

Just had a quick scan of the manual and it says default setting is on and its not adjustable with the dip switches.

How old is the unit?

 

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Just had a phone conversation with Onboard Energy ( who are extremely efficient ) and they confirm that it is indeed working as it should and that theres no problem with it.

Its the older models that aren't up to the standards of the new ones and this is just how they are.

 

Thanks to everyone's input.

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4 hours ago, Glynn said:

Just had a phone conversation with Onboard Energy ( who are extremely efficient ) and they confirm that it is indeed working as it should and that theres no problem with it.

Its the older models that aren't up to the standards of the new ones and this is just how they are.

 

Thanks to everyone's input.

If the L and N are floating with respect to E, which it seems they are, then whilst I can’t comment on “it is indeed working as it should be” I refute “that there’s no problem with it”. There is a problem, which is that the RCD (hopefully) fitted after the inverter and before the sockets, might as well not be there as it will be ineffective.

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35 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

If the L and N are floating with respect to E, which it seems they are, then whilst I can’t comment on “it is indeed working as it should be” I refute “that there’s no problem with it”. There is a problem, which is that the RCD (hopefully) fitted after the inverter and before the sockets, might as well not be there as it will be ineffective.

Not so with the way that an rcd ( or rcbo )  works.

If it was an elcb I would agree with you.

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