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LPG leak ?


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22 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

How little you knows about gas!!

Really?

I was a Corgi committee senior member for many years, inspecting and reporting on work from folk like yourself.

Perhaps you were being humorous, Otherwise you would seem to be very insulting Mike and surely that is not your style?

 

 

Mike does arrogance and bluster so well does he not?

Its not the manometer that lies, its the incorrect use by the conceited operator that makes the errors.

Shame he can't do humility and hence to learn something, mainly that he is not the world's authority on anything in particular. It was so much better when he was off in a huff......

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14 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Really?

I was a Corgi committee senior member for many years, inspecting and reporting on work from folk like yourself.

Perhaps you were being humorous, Otherwise you would seem to be very insulting Mike and surely that is not your style?

 

 

Mike does arrogance and bluster so well does he not?

Its not the manometer that lies, its the incorrect use by the conceited operator that makes the errors.

Shame he can't do humility and hence to learn something, mainly that he is not the world's authority on anything in particular. It was so much better when he was off in a huff......

 

 

Being thoroughly nasty doesn't sit well with you. I have a lot of respect for your expertise but posts like this really don't show you up is a good light. You are looking bitter and miserable which I know you are not all the time.

 

Now why don't you post something constructive to help W+T instead of criticising me? Or explain in detail what it is you think I should learn about manometers. I'm all ears, honestly. I love to learn and expand my knowledge. I can think of at least three situation where a manometer lies, which was the point I picked you up on and yes, one of them IS user incompetence. I put it to you that you just don't like being called out on your incorrect advice to W+T. 

 

Put me on 'ignore' if my posts trouble you so much.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Being thoroughly nasty doesn't sit well with you. I have a lot of respect for your expertise but posts like this really don't show you up is a good light. You are looking bitter and miserable which I know you are not all the time.

 

Now why don't you post something constructive to help W+T instead of criticising me? Or explain in detail what it is you think I should learn about manometers. I'm all ears, honestly. I love to learn and expand my knowledge. I can think of at least three situation where a manometer lies, which was the point I picked you up on and yes, one of them IS user incompetence. I put it to you that you just don't like being called out on your incorrect advice to W+T. 

 

Put me on 'ignore' if my posts trouble you so much.

 

 

Arrogant till the end. I love know-it-alls, they always fail in the end. You have been on ignore ever since you came back but on a matter as serious as your bad advice concerning gas safety I check up on you for the benefit of the OP.

I used to love seeing fitters with your attitude being prosecuted for breach of regulations, grind on Mike but please don't cause someone to have a disaster.

Edited by Boater Sam
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7 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Arrogant till the end. I love know-it-alls, they always fail in the end. You have been on ignore ever since you came back but on a matter as serious as your bad advice concerning gas safety I check up on you for the benefit of the OP.

I used to love seeing fitters with your attitude being prosecuted for breach of regulations, grind on Mike but please don't cause someone to have a disaster.

 

 

So what have I said to the OP that was wrong then? 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Arrogant till the end. I love know-it-alls, they always fail in the end. You have been on ignore ever since you came back but on a matter as serious as your bad advice concerning gas safety I check up on you for the benefit of the OP.

I used to love seeing fitters with your attitude being prosecuted for breach of regulations, grind on Mike but please don't cause someone to have a disaster.

For the benefit of relatively uninformed users of this forum, please could you let us know whether your knowledge and experience is practical (i.e gained in the big bad world of industry and actively following a trade) or is it theoretical (i.e. gained mainly as result of training and education)?

 

Having 2 self-proclaimed experts (one of them at least being a practical tradesman) disagreeing and calling each other arrogant is unhelpful and leaves the reader with a distrust of technicians who specialise in domestic gas installation and testing. 

 

For the record, I am a Chartered Engineer since 1972 (civil - specialising in oil and gas (big stuff, not domestic)) who learned little of value through formal education.  Almost everything useful that I learned, which led to me being repeatedly head-hunted for senior roles on major (multi-billion dollar) projects in many locations in the Middle East and Asia, was gained by working alongside experienced technicians who in general I held in high esteem.

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2 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

Having 2 self-proclaimed experts (one of them at least being a practical tradesman) disagreeing and calling each other arrogant

 

I'd like to point out I have not called Sam arrogant. 

 

I have however, asked him questions about why he thinks I am incompetent and what gas advice I have given that is wrong, but he has elected not to answer.  

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17 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'd like to point out I have not called Sam arrogant. 

 

I have however, asked him questions about why he thinks I am incompetent and what gas advice I have given that is wrong, but he has elected not to answer.  

It seems as though Sam has left us, see hacking thread

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59 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'd like to point out I have not called Sam arrogant. 

 

I have however, asked him questions about why he thinks I am incompetent and what gas advice I have given that is wrong, but he has elected not to answer.  

'pologies Mike.  The trend of the posts seemed to suggest that, but re-reading the words, you are correct. 

 

 

....................................   he is though, innit?

Edited by Murflynn
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23 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

'pologies Mike.  The trend of the posts seemed to suggest that, but re-reading the words, you are correct. 

 

 

....................................   he is though, innit?

 

Best I don't say, or I might look an equally big plonker! 

 

 

 

 

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Have you tried the leak solution stuff on the bubble tester itself?  If bubbles are visible then the gas has to be going somewhere. This somewhere is most likely outside the system and therefore must be findable by using the solution in the right place and you've tried most places, or its just gas passing from a higher pressure area (bottle side) to a lower pressure area (the pipes) and pressurizing them, in the latter case the bubble tester bubbles should stop flowing when the pressure eventually equalises. Why there might be a presure difference (unlikely) is another question but the option is listed for theoretical completeness.

The above offering is from a complete amateur, with occasional arrogance.

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15 hours ago, W+T said:

While some talk of a Manometer is going on.

 

Ant suggestion on which i could buy?

Dead easy to make with a piece of clear neoprene tube of suitable diameter, a piece of board and a few clips. I use food dye in the water to make it clearer.

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8 hours ago, catweasel said:

Dead easy to make with a piece of clear neoprene tube of suitable diameter, a piece of board and a few clips. I use food dye in the water to make it clearer.

 

For the price will this do the job ?

https://www.toolstation.com/gas-test-gauge/p85691?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&gclid=Cj0KCQjwoInnBRDDARIsANBVyAQynr0YSXP0J7uwNJTSkmE9P3vVCmt_bTQ7HlIVgQdNksxqC2w6qTQaArphEALw_wcB

 

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have you replaced the regulator? 

it may be such a simple problem, with an equally simple solution, at minimal cost (less than a tenner).

if you have apparent leaks on all 3 lines it seems quite likely that your problem is quite simply the sudden jump in pressurisation of each line when the isolation valve is opened followed by the gradual continued pressurisation which matches your description in post 23 and Jess's in post 31, all the result of the regulator failure.

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1 hour ago, W+T said:

Hopefully mtb will comment, but I think the manometer for our job has to be a higher pressure. I will stand corrected if wrong. I copied someone else's and wrote the test procedure on the wooden plate which somebody kindly posted on here. I can measure it if it is any help.

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Just incase I missed it, have you done the obvious and checked for leaks on the rear of the valves on your triple manifold. From the picture they appear to be plug / taper body valves that primarily rely on the silicon grease to seal. I have seen a few of these develop leaks. Easily fixed by regeasing with the correct grease, screfix or any good  trade plumbing supplier sells this.

Mike, as you say, incorrect use of a manometer, especially if the bottle valve leaks a bit, will tell you lies!

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I'm suspicious of the regulator, they have a tendency to throw up some odd symptoms on failing. I see no reason a leak here wouldn't register on the bubble tester.

  The type pictured has a small hole on the underside which you could check with washing up liquid, but with the cheap price of a new one i'd change it anyway. 

I just had another look at your picture and noticed that the regulator end of the gas pipe is held by an overly large hose clip. This often produces flat spots and a poor seal.

Edited by BWM
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If you are a non smoker and can smell even the slightest smell of gas anywhere in the boat, then there will be a leak somewhere . When I was employed, part of my job was being leader of a team that had to survey about 50 lpg installations annually. The vast majority of these installations were for dispensing lpg on service stations into cars and bottle filling.

The procedure was to get lowdown at the base of a dispenser and get someone else to remove the cover on that side. If there was any smell of gas at all, it could often take a couple of hours with leak detecting fluid and mirrors, flameproof torches checking every joint and spindle to find, just  the trace of a bubble every few seconds. Every joint needed watching for up to a minute. Yes we used bubble testers, manometers, and flammable gas testers and we routinely  soap tested (using the right stuff) every joint and spindle. Included on the team was a fitter from the maintenance contractor, We would not leave the site until the leak was either fixed and the installation rechecked, or locked off until repaired and I would have to make a return visit to certify rectification. Every 5 years the pipework was pressure tested for 24 hours, and every ten years the tank was degassed, internally inspected and  cleaned. A major job taking up couple of days and a large team of certified  staff and specialised equipment.

It was a nice way of seeing a nice part of the country except in poor weather.

My annual checks were in addition to the daily operator checks, and independent scheduled checks, (I think 3 monthly by the maintenance contractor) that I had to monitor. My checks would always pick up some failures, if gas could escape it would.

Any smell of gas, or imagined smell of gas must be followed up, firstly isolate the supply,  and then progessively check from the supply to furthest burner.   A danger is that the stenching agent is less persistent then propane and butane and boat bilges are just as effective as collecting any escaped lpg as they are at collecting water. They don't cancel each other out but the water will absorb the stenching agent.

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6 hours ago, Murflynn said:

have you replaced the regulator? 

it may be such a simple problem, with an equally simple solution, at minimal cost (less than a tenner).

if you have apparent leaks on all 3 lines it seems quite likely that your problem is quite simply the sudden jump in pressurisation of each line when the isolation valve is opened followed by the gradual continued pressurisation which matches your description in post 23 and Jess's in post 31, all the result of the regulator failure.

 

I have got oncoming in the next day or so. I am just getting prepared for the next check if the reg does not fit. Like to be ready for thenext step ;)   

6 hours ago, catweasel said:

Hopefully mtb will comment, but I think the manometer for our job has to be a higher pressure. I will stand corrected if wrong. I copied someone else's and wrote the test procedure on the wooden plate which somebody kindly posted on here. I can measure it if it is any help.

Ah good point i overlooked.  

5 hours ago, adrianh said:

Just incase I missed it, have you done the obvious and checked for leaks on the rear of the valves on your triple manifold. From the picture they appear to be plug / taper body valves that primarily rely on the silicon grease to seal. I have seen a few of these develop leaks. Easily fixed by regeasing with the correct grease, screfix or any good  trade plumbing supplier sells this.

Mike, as you say, incorrect use of a manometer, especially if the bottle valve leaks a bit, will tell you lies!

Yes i checked them, every joint there is.  

 

 

What i have done know is use my phone for a close up video of the joints just to rule out me not seeing the leak, and cant get any closer up then that. 

 

Ill update either later today or tomorrow when the reg arrives.  Yes i am an online shopper ?

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8 hours ago, adrianh said:

Just incase I missed it, have you done the obvious and checked for leaks on the rear of the valves on your triple manifold. From the picture they appear to be plug / taper body valves that primarily rely on the silicon grease to seal. I have seen a few of these develop leaks. Easily fixed by regeasing with the correct grease, screfix or any good  trade plumbing supplier sells this.

Mike, as you say, incorrect use of a manometer, especially if the bottle valve leaks a bit, will tell you lies!

Oh yes sorry forgot to answer that but the valves stems came with compression olives. 

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5 hours ago, W+T said:

Oh yes sorry forgot to answer that but the valves stems came with compression olives. 

Have you ordered the ''Gaslow'' regulator with gauge? They are excellent for carrying out quick gas tightness tests as I explained earlier.

Or you can buy just the Gaslow gauge which screws into the regulator with the take off from the gauge.

Edited by bizzard
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54 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Have you ordered the ''Gaslow'' regulator with gauge? They are excellent for carrying out quick gas tightness tests as I explained earlier.

Or you can buy just the Gaslow gauge which screws into the regulator with the take off from the gauge.

I was going to but decided aginst only for the reason is that with the extra length withe gauge ii would of been concerned if to much strain with the hose being be to much against the locker wall. So just got a standard one again. If the bubbke gauge is not gaulty. Which i will be surprised if it is then that is a good enoigh quick test for me. Reason i fitted one really.

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