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Threat to Thames Barges


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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

How would this affect passenger boats further up the (non-tidal) river? I've worked on boats that weren't subdivided that were inspected by the MCA.

The proposed changes on category B waterways are to carry enough life jackets for everyone. You can find the consultation document by typing MCA survivability into google. Not quite sure how to link it directly. 

 

Cheers Graham

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This type of action has been going on for years throughout the country. I was directly involved with this as a skipper with Princess river cruises. We were told we had to comply with onerous changes to the vessel the Nottingham Princess or would be reduced from 172 to 50 passengers, 50 is simply non viable. The company owners paid huge amounts of money out for ships architects and solicitors etc but eventualy after a couple of years had no choice other than to make significant changes. As the vessel is not extremely old this was possible and include extra watertight bulkheads ( 2 ) taking it to 8 in total and sponsons. The cost was many thousands, the sponsons alone were bespoke. We then fitted them ourselves, no mean feat. It will take a long time to recoup the money. Another older boat at the same location because it was older didnt have to comply as it was not possible so smaller changes were eventualy allowed. It seems legislation is being further tightened to encompass such older boats. If this is forced into implementation then without doubt the costs would be unviable for many.

Edited by mrsmelly
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31 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Miserable little men behind desks, who are determined to stop anyone enjoying anything.

Partialy true. The main problem of course as with all things to do with bureaucracy is that one size most certainly doesnt fit all. A few well maintained old boats are fantastic to see and use but we live in a society screwed by samey decision makers who have no direct experience of what they are dealing with. Same goes for employment working conditions when a tiny business has to comply with legislation that is impossible due to work force size. The ridiculous imposed upon us RCD that has sprung from boats untypical of our narrow canal system. The list is endless and will only get worse. There has always been common sense compromises re such matters over the years as with the UK boaters use of red diesel just for one matter, now big brother rules all walks of life without sensible compromise.

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27 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Partialy true. The main problem of course as with all things to do with bureaucracy is that one size most certainly doesnt fit all. A few well maintained old boats are fantastic to see and use but we live in a society screwed by samey decision makers who have no direct experience of what they are dealing with. Same goes for employment working conditions when a tiny business has to comply with legislation that is impossible due to work force size. The ridiculous imposed upon us RCD that has sprung from boats untypical of our narrow canal system. The list is endless and will only get worse. There has always been common sense compromises re such matters over the years as with the UK boaters use of red diesel just for one matter, now big brother rules all walks of life without sensible compromise.

I'm just glad that I am too old to care anymore.  

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1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Partialy true. The main problem of course as with all things to do with bureaucracy is that one size most certainly doesnt fit all. A few well maintained old boats are fantastic to see and use but we live in a society screwed by samey decision makers who have no direct experience of what they are dealing with. Same goes for employment working conditions when a tiny business has to comply with legislation that is impossible due to work force size. The ridiculous imposed upon us RCD that has sprung from boats untypical of our narrow canal system. The list is endless and will only get worse. There has always been common sense compromises re such matters over the years as with the UK boaters use of red diesel just for one matter, now big brother rules all walks of life without sensible compromise.

I was on the puffer VIC 32 a couple of weeks ago and the people there were saying the examiner came on the vessel and couldn't decide if he was stood on the bow or the stern and had to ask!

 

George

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It is a problem. What is needed is a bit of creative pragmatism on behalf of the regulators. There needs to a modified safety classification for historically significant vessels.  Important heritage needs to have a viable modern use to be available for future generations to see and more importantly  to experience. What is required is a regime that allows some dispensation from general rules, perhaps traded off against some other enhanced safety features as mitigation. Such as a trade offs  on operating range, and perhaps on hours of operation, when carrying above a certain number of passengers. Also additional egress provision from below decks may be considered practicable. When one buys a ticket for a sightseeing flight on a DC3, you would not expect it to be provided with the full suite of safety provisions of a modern airliner, but you would also expect it to be restricted as to where, and when it could fly. Keeping those boats active is extremely important, but can only be acheived in a viable operating regime. Far too many historic boats,  are being lost because there is insufficient income available to meet the horrendous costs of keeping them seaworthy. Good luck.

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23 hours ago, Chris Williams said:

Miserable little men behind desks, who are determined to stop anyone enjoying anything.

Said the owners of the Titanic before she set sail. 

 

 

 

stupid lifeboats, who needs them anyway...........

 

 

 

Edited by Tumshie
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8 hours ago, matty40s said:

I'm glad David Attenborough doesn't share your altruistic nature.

I don't understand your point:  

altruistic definition: showing a wish to help or bring advantages to others, even if it results in disadvantage for yourself:

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2 hours ago, Tumshie said:

Said the owners of the Titanic before she set sail. 

 

 

 

stupid lifeboats, who needs them anyway...........

 

 

 

I thought those owners said it was unsinkable - what a stupid thing to claim about a boat, just asking for trouble.

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2 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

I thought those owners said it was unsinkable - what a stupid thing to claim about a boat, just asking for trouble.

I don't think they actually did - I think it was first mentioned in a news paper article and the company just didn't deny it. 

 

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I dont think they used them all. but there are so many stories/theories its hard to say

There's been a lot of investigation into it, so I think there's a lot less theory now, but obviously there are some things that may never be settled with absolute certainty. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboats_of_the_RMS_Titanic

 

The lifeboats of the RMS Titanic played a crucial role in the disaster of 14–15 April 1912. One of the ship's legacies was that she had 20 lifeboats that could only accommodate 1,178 people, despite the fact that there were approximately 2,208 on board. RMS Titanic had a maximum capacity of 3,547 passengers and crew.

18 lifeboats were used, loading between 11:45 p.m.–2:15 a.m., though Collapsible Boat A floated off the ship's partially submerged deck, and Collapsible Boat B floated away upside down minutes before the ship upended and sank.

Many lifeboats only carried half of their maximum capacity; there are many versions as to the reasoning behind half-filled lifeboats. Some sources claimed they were afraid of the lifeboat buckling under the weight, others suggested it was because the crew were following orders to evacuate women and children first. Some of the final lifeboats were overfilled, and passengers noticed the seawater line was near the gunwale on some of the lifeboats. As the half-filled boats rowed away from the ship, they were too far for other passengers to reach, and most lifeboats did not return to the wreck, due to fear of being swamped by drowning victims. Only two lifeboats returned to retrieve survivors from the water, some of whom later died.

 

Although the number of lifeboats was insufficient, Titanic was in compliance with maritime safety regulations of the time. The sinking showed that the regulations were outdated for such large passenger ships. The Inquiry also revealed White Star Line wanted fewer boats on the decks, to provide unobstructed views for passengers and give the ship more aesthetics from an exterior viewpoint. In the event of an emergency, it was not anticipated that all passengers and crew would require evacuation at the same time, as it was believed Titanic would float for long enough to allow a transfer of passengers and crew to a rescue vessel.

 

 

I watch a documentary about the three sister ships of the White Star Line where it mentioned that not long after the Titanic sunk the company who still didn't want to invest in lifeboats had a mutiny on their hands as the 300 below decks workers like the coal shovelers and the firemen (the ones often forgotten and over looked) went on strike and wouldn't return till lifeboats sufficient for every soul onboard were fitted to the Olympic.  

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

I can't understand all the fuss about the 'Titanic', which never finished a voyage, while the 'Queen Mary' rots away in America.

Well I think the fuss is because she never finished her maiden voyage.

 

There are too many boats with wonderful histories and stories that are not where or what they should be today. Boats and Ships created the world that we know today and yet, perhaps because we took them for granted, they are not given the pride of place that they should have, it pains me greatly that some of our beautiful boats are on the wrong side of the Atlantic. 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Tumshie said:

I don't think they actually did - I think it was first mentioned in a news paper article and the company just didn't deny it. 

 

There's been a lot of investigation into it, so I think there's a lot less theory now, but obviously there are some things that may never be settled with absolute certainty. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboats_of_the_RMS_Titanic

 

The lifeboats of the RMS Titanic played a crucial role in the disaster of 14–15 April 1912. One of the ship's legacies was that she had 20 lifeboats that could only accommodate 1,178 people, despite the fact that there were approximately 2,208 on board. RMS Titanic had a maximum capacity of 3,547 passengers and crew.

18 lifeboats were used, loading between 11:45 p.m.–2:15 a.m., though Collapsible Boat A floated off the ship's partially submerged deck, and Collapsible Boat B floated away upside down minutes before the ship upended and sank.

Many lifeboats only carried half of their maximum capacity; there are many versions as to the reasoning behind half-filled lifeboats. Some sources claimed they were afraid of the lifeboat buckling under the weight, others suggested it was because the crew were following orders to evacuate women and children first. Some of the final lifeboats were overfilled, and passengers noticed the seawater line was near the gunwale on some of the lifeboats. As the half-filled boats rowed away from the ship, they were too far for other passengers to reach, and most lifeboats did not return to the wreck, due to fear of being swamped by drowning victims. Only two lifeboats returned to retrieve survivors from the water, some of whom later died.

 

Although the number of lifeboats was insufficient, Titanic was in compliance with maritime safety regulations of the time. The sinking showed that the regulations were outdated for such large passenger ships. The Inquiry also revealed White Star Line wanted fewer boats on the decks, to provide unobstructed views for passengers and give the ship more aesthetics from an exterior viewpoint. In the event of an emergency, it was not anticipated that all passengers and crew would require evacuation at the same time, as it was believed Titanic would float for long enough to allow a transfer of passengers and crew to a rescue vessel.

 

 

I watch a documentary about the three sister ships of the White Star Line where it mentioned that not long after the Titanic sunk the company who still didn't want to invest in lifeboats had a mutiny on their hands as the 300 below decks workers like the coal shovelers and the firemen (the ones often forgotten and over looked) went on strike and wouldn't return till lifeboats sufficient for every soul onboard were fitted to the Olympic.  

 

 

 

Well I think the fuss is because she never finished her maiden voyage.

 

There are too many boats with wonderful histories and stories that are not where or what they should be today. Boats and Ships created the world that we know today and yet, perhaps because we took them for granted, they are not given the pride of place that they should have, it pains me greatly that some of our beautiful boats are on the wrong side of the Atlantic. 

 

 

 

 

 

Amongst the many interesting moments in my life was meeting Millvina Dean. She booked a room in my pub for a meeting a few years ago. Although she had no personal recolection of the event neverthe less she was a very interesting lady with a huge knowledge of it.

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