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Fitting a new drive plate


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12 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

1.Find the lever the throttle cable is connected to and get someone to operate the lever while you identify the screw that stops the lever when you close the throttle. NEVER the one that stops the opening. Screw the stop screw in slightly.

 

2. Any half decent  alternator & starter overhaulers would have no trouble in fitting a "phase tap" to your alternator to drive the tacho. It would end up as a lead stuck out the back a bit like those fitted for alternator controllers but in a different place internally.

Much as I wouldn't normally want to disagree with Tony, from this old thread there is actually an idle speed adjustment on the fuel pump.

Richard

 

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I had a similar problem when I switched from a Hurth box to a PRM120, with an older Beta BV1305 engine - the box rattled a lot at idle and low speed using the new drive plate initially recommended by Beta which had a “B” element. Turned out the original drive plate (which I didn’t see until the thing was taken to bits) was a much softer AC element like your spare, for which the then current replacement was an AN element. Swapped the drive plate for an AN, upped the idle speed a bit and it was much quieter.

 

ETA, I did the swap of the plate, it’s not difficult provided that there is enough clearance between the coupling and glad or the prop and rudder to push the shaft far enough back to be able to get the gearbox input shaft clear of the drive plate.

Edited by AndrewIC
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1 minute ago, Ryeland said:

Much as I wouldn't normally want to disagree with Tony, from this old thread there is actually an idle speed adjustment on the fuel pump.

Richard

 

Thanks, Why do they drop simplicity for something more complicated.

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Thanks for all your input and help, I think when I'm on the boat next I am going to remove the drive plate and see what state it is in. 

Ive contacted R&D to see if my plate will fit ok just to double check and if it does refit that one, if not order one up depending on the state of the old one.

One more question

What kind of coupling do I have fitted, not seeing others i don't know if its standard or not, I looked online but can't seem to see one like it, it's only out of curiosity?

Or is the coupling inside the housing?

engine.jpg.ebaec75ada204bdebd26097205b5f710.jpg

 

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7 minutes ago, rustydiver said:

Thanks for all your input and help, I think when I'm on the boat next I am going to remove the drive plate and see what state it is in. 

Ive contacted R&D to see if my plate will fit ok just to double check and if it does refit that one, if not order one up depending on the state of the old one.

One more question

What kind of coupling do I have fitted, not seeing others i don't know if its standard or not, I looked online but can't seem to see one like it, it's only out of curiosity?

Or is the coupling inside the housing?

 

 

 

I am not 100% sure but I think that is one from the Centaflex range, probably their M series.

 

There is very little that is "standard" on boats, unlike vehicles where identical parts are used across a whole range of vehicles and manufacturers. Centaflex is arguably one of the leading shaft coupling manufacturers.

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8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am not 100% sure but I think that is one from the Centaflex range, probably their M series.

 

There is very little that is "standard" on boats, unlike vehicles where identical parts are used across a whole range of vehicles and manufacturers. Centaflex is arguably one of the leading shaft coupling manufacturers.

Thanks Tony.

So at last there may be something decent fitted to the boat then. ??

 

I shouldn't say that, its been good since we had it only had a few niggling things.

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On 16/05/2019 at 08:59, RLWP said:

It doesn't really matter what coupling it is, undo the four bolts that join it to the gearbox

I’m on the boat now and the 4 bolts won’t shift at all I’ve soaked them. There’s not enough room to get a socket or ring spanner on just the open end. 

Are they reverse thread?

 

Can I unbolt the the gearbox from the engine and slide it all back in one go?

All the other bots are able to undo. 

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Which four bolts. The ones entering from the gearbox side are probably the clamping bolts that clamp a cone onto the shaft. I think you need the four entering from the gland end and they look as if they might be  socket headed screws to me.

 

I would not try to slide it back in one piece, too much danger or breaking something.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Which four bolts. The ones entering from the gearbox side are probably the clamping bolts that clamp a cone onto the shaft. I think you need the four entering from the gland end and they look as if they might be  socket headed screws to me.

 

I would not try to slide it back in one piece, too much danger or breaking something.

Sorry the 4 at the back of the gearbox where it joins the coupling. 

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I think those could well be the taper clamp bolts and will be, as we used to say, FT. If I am correct I am not surprised you could not undo them. Try the ones on the other side threaded into lands on the aluminium housing.

 

Hold hard on that, I have just looked at the catalogue thing and I may well be wrong. Wait for someone who really knows to confirm/deny.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think those could well be the taper clamp bolts and will be, as we used to say, FT. If I am correct I am not surprised you could not undo them. Try the ones on the other side threaded into lands on the aluminium housing.

 

Hold hard on that, I have just looked at the catalogue thing and I may well be wrong. Wait for someone who really knows to confirm/deny.

That’s the ones I m trying. The 4 bolts that face the back of the gearbox. Rock solid little buggers. They go through the gland in the gearbox into the coupling. 1B4A6573-6EB0-4E0E-8532-9708F81BC92A.jpeg.58ea9a740106b54e9d0b997cb6164f95.jpeg

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5 minutes ago, rustydiver said:

That’s the ones I m trying. The 4 bolts that face the back of the gearbox. Rock solid little buggers. They go through the gland in the gearbox into the coupling. 1B4A6573-6EB0-4E0E-8532-9708F81BC92A.jpeg.58ea9a740106b54e9d0b997cb6164f95.jpeg

You need a flat combination ring spanner to fit them. If the outer edge of the ring baulks on the half coupling grind a little off the outside edge of the ring so it sits firmly on the bolt heads.  Then a little clump on the spanner with a hammer should undo them. Normal right hand direction threaded bolts.

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6 minutes ago, bizzard said:

You need a flat combination ring spanner to fit them. If the outer edge of the ring baulks on the half coupling grind a little off the outside edge of the ring so it sits firmly on the bolt heads.  Then a little clump on the spanner with a hammer should undo them. Normal right hand direction threaded bolts.

Thanks for that. Looks like it’s going to be a job for next time I come up. I’ll have to bring my grinder up with me and some old spammers I got in the garage. 

Edited by rustydiver
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1 hour ago, bizzard said:

You need a flat combination ring spanner to fit them. If the outer edge of the ring baulks on the half coupling grind a little off the outside edge of the ring so it sits firmly on the bolt heads.  Then a little clump on the spanner with a hammer should undo them. Normal right hand direction threaded bolts.

Could steel bolts threaded into cast aluminium, in a damp atmosphere, have corroded together?

Would it be better/possible to split the drive shaft elsewhere?

 

Bod

PS  Use single hex spanners, ones with only 6 sides, much less likely to round off the bolt head.  

Edited by Bod
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I had a Beta 43 and a PRM 120....but I had to hacksaw some parts of the drive plate to make it fit. 

 

This was not just me...I took the old plate to Beta in Gloucester to make sure I had the correct one and Adrian told me that's what I needed to do.

(He originally said he was going to do it for me.....but suddenly lost enthusiasm  ? )

 

Maybe you won't need to do that ..but be prepared...

 

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5 minutes ago, Bobbybass said:

I had a Beta 43 and a PRM 120....but I had to hacksaw some parts of the drive plate to make it fit. 

 

This was not just me...I took the old plate to Beta in Gloucester to make sure I had the correct one and Adrian told me that's what I needed to do.

(He originally said he was going to do it for me.....but suddenly lost enthusiasm  ? )

 

Maybe you won't need to do that ..but be prepared...

 

When you say hacksaw. 

Where and what did you do?

 

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On 15/05/2019 at 06:49, Tony Brooks said:

 

 

2. Any half decent  alternator & starter overhaulers would have no trouble in fitting a "phase tap" to your alternator to drive the tacho. It would end up as a lead stuck out the back a bit like those fitted for alternator controllers but in a different place internally.

Well at least the alternator came off very easy. Going to take it to someone in town to have a look at it. 

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39 minutes ago, rustydiver said:

When you say hacksaw. 

Where and what did you do?

 

It was a few years back...but as far as I can remember...the engine plate had some bolts...and the drive plate didn't...so I had to cut some slots so that the plate would fit flat on the face.... This was due to the fact that the engines and gearboxes were made by different companies and cobbled together.

 

When I was going to change the plate .. it was Adrian at Beta...who said it is always best to take them the old plate to match it up.

 

May be worth giving them a ring ( nice folks)….and giving them your engine and gearbox numbers and see if there are any things you need to know. They may just tell you it's a straight forward plate change job...(  since when has … straight forward...  ever applied to narrowboats..   ?  )...

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19 minutes ago, Bobbybass said:

It was a few years back...but as far as I can remember...the engine plate had some bolts...and the drive plate didn't...so I had to cut some slots so that the plate would fit flat on the face.... This was due to the fact that the engines and gearboxes were made by different companies and cobbled together.

 

When I was going to change the plate .. it was Adrian at Beta...who said it is always best to take them the old plate to match it up.

 

May be worth giving them a ring ( nice folks)….and giving them your engine and gearbox numbers and see if there are any things you need to know. They may just tell you it's a straight forward plate change job...(  since when has … straight forward...  ever applied to narrowboats..   ?  )...

Thanks I’m at Saul junction so beta are just down the road. I will give them a call next week. 

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On 15/05/2019 at 06:49, Tony Brooks said:

 

 

2. Any half decent  alternator & starter overhaulers would have no trouble in fitting a "phase tap" to your alternator to drive the tacho. It would end up as a lead stuck out the back a bit like those fitted for alternator controllers but in a different place internally.

Thanks Tony. Ive just picked up my alternator, I've had a phase tap put in. Lets hope it works and they haven't just stuck a yellow wire in there.

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3 minutes ago, rustydiver said:

Thanks Tony. Ive just picked up my alternator, I've had a phase tap put in. Lets hope it works and they haven't just stuck a yellow wire in there.

Sorry, I should have warned you before that you will need to find the revcounter instructions so you can match the counter to the engine.

 

It may use dip switches or more likely tiny push buttons to set the speed. The rev counter does not know the alternator pulley ration so the vast majority have to be set after fitting.

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On 18/05/2019 at 17:12, Bod said:

 

PS  Use single hex spanners, ones with only 6 sides, much less likely to round off the bolt head.  

 

Can't help but disagree with this advice. A correctly fitting ring spanner can deliver FAR more torque into a bolt head than an open-ended spanner, no matter how good the fit.

 

A ring spanner will usually break the bolt shaft before rounding the head off .

 

 

 

 

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