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rustydiver

Fitting a new drive plate

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I think it could be time for a new drive plate, It chatters rattles at low revs disappears as the revs get higher. I did the screwdriver test using it as a stethoscope and listened around the gear box and it made quite a bit of noise. 

Now my question is how easy are they to replace or is a job best left to another person. 

Im ok around mechanics and happy to have a go.

Its a Beta 38 engine with a PRM 120 gearbox. Is there a standard drive plate or it a case of getting it off then seeing?

Ive had the boat a few years now and hiding under the bed is a drive plate If I'm a lucky boy it fits but I suspect not. 

It does look as someone has tried to fit it in the past but looks unused.

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You need an R&D 43-AC-60 driveplate, like it says on the label

 

Richard

 

MORE: I can't see anything wrong with that driveplate

Edited by RLWP

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Neither can I.

You could phone  R&D and ask if its the correct number or whether they have updated the plate for your combination of engine and gearbox.

For instance, for BMCs there is a 2 stage and a 3 stage plate, both fit and work but the 3 stage is a softer take up.

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Thing is, using this: https://betamarine.co.uk/portfolio-item/beta-38/

 

and this: https://www.prm-newage.com/media/File/PRM120.pdf

 

The PRM120 is OK for 'Pleasure' use, but not for 'Light Commercial'. In my opinion, Pleasure boating is offshore or lakes. Canal work is closer to Light Commercial due to all the gearbox work at locks.

 

Bet the noise is coming from the gearbox

 

Richard

 

(Pleasure,  1.67bhp per 100 RPM. Max speed for the engine is 3600, so 36 x 1.67 = 60 which is more than 38. Light commercial, 36 x 0.91 = 32 which is less than 38)

 

Edited by RLWP
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34 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Thing is, using this: https://betamarine.co.uk/portfolio-item/beta-38/

 

and this: https://www.prm-newage.com/media/File/PRM120.pdf

 

The PRM120 is OK for 'Pleasure' use, but not for 'Light Commercial'. In my opinion, Pleasure boating is offshore or lakes. Canal work is closer to Light Commercial due to all the gearbox work at locks.

 

Bet the noise is coming from the gearbox

 

Richard

 

(Pleasure,  1.67bhp per 100 RPM. Max speed for the engine is 3600, so 36 x 1.67 = 60 which is more than 38. Light commercial, 36 x 0.91 = 32 which is less than 38)

 

Just my thoughts after looking at the images or perhaps the idle speed is a bit low.

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Just now, Tony Brooks said:

Just my thoughts after looking at the images or perhaps the idle speed is a bit low.

Good point. 

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Thanks for your input and thoughts.

How easy is it to adjust the idle on the beta 38?

Ive never had a working Taco gauge, there is no connection on the rear of the alternator for it.

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Before you do that, does the noise go away if you increase engine speed?

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1 minute ago, RLWP said:

Before you do that, does the noise go away if you increase engine speed?

Low revs it rattles while going slow and on tickover as you increase the revs it disappears.

Its always done it. This year we've used the boat quite a bit so think im noticing it more. We are on the Gloucester Sharpness canals no lock work at he moment.

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13 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Is it the same out of gear? out of gear.

 

Yes I have noticed it on tickover to. 

When ive just started the engine to

Thats what made me think a engine mount maybe.

Edited by rustydiver

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5 hours ago, RLWP said:

MORE: I can't see anything wrong with that driveplate

 

It appears to have been been fitted and removed. This suggests this is the old drive plate and replacing it didn't fix the noise. 

 

The noise happening out of gear rules out the drive plate I reckon. Yes? 

 

 

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I have this exact setup, over the years i had increased the idle revs to avoid the chattering. I changed the drive plate to a soft 22AM60 from the original. It helped dramatically and the idle speed could be reduced to an indicated 900rpm in gear with no chattering. It was a relatively straight forward job to change, following the great advice given on other threads.

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11 hours ago, rustydiver said:

Thanks for your input and thoughts.

How easy is it to adjust the idle on the beta 38?

Ive never had a working Taco gauge, there is no connection on the rear of the alternator for it.

 

1.Find the lever the throttle cable is connected to and get someone to operate the lever while you identify the screw that stops the lever when you close the throttle. NEVER the one that stops the opening. Screw the stop screw in slightly.

 

2. Any half decent  alternator & starter overhaulers would have no trouble in fitting a "phase tap" to your alternator to drive the tacho. It would end up as a lead stuck out the back a bit like those fitted for alternator controllers but in a different place internally.

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

1.Find the lever the throttle cable is connected to and get someone to operate the lever while you identify the screw that stops the lever when you close the throttle. NEVER the one that stops the opening. Screw the stop screw in slightly.

 

2. Any half decent  alternator & starter overhaulers would have no trouble in fitting a "phase tap" to your alternator to drive the tacho. It would end up as a lead stuck out the back a bit like those fitted for alternator controllers but in a different place internally.

Thanks for that Tony. 

Funnily enough talking to someone last week they told me they had their alternator rebuilt a few weeks ago by someone in the town who I didn't think about so going to have a word with them to see if they can do it.

 

 

 

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Just now, rustydiver said:

Thanks for that Tony. 

Funnily enough talking to someone last week they told me they had their alternator rebuilt a few weeks ago by someone in the town who I didn't think about so going to have a word with them to see if they can do it.

 

 

 

It is some time since I last saw an alternator without a W terminal

 

Richard

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Thinking about it another thing it does it sometimes clunks when engaging it into gear, its always done it since I've had the boat.

Its these things you get so used to and don't pay any attention to it.

Next time im on the boat, probably won't be for a few weeks now I will pay particular attention the the rattle/ chattering and clunks when they happen.

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2 minutes ago, RLWP said:

It is some time since I last saw an alternator without a W terminal

 

Richard

It definitely don't have the W terminal. Ive had the alternator off a few times and looked while off and the cable is just loose behind it.

Sadly after buying the boat the previous owner don't have a clue about mechanical stuff and a few things Ive found the person he paid to do the jobs had just a little bit more knowledge.

But then that's the fun in owning boats and old cars😂

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11 minutes ago, rustydiver said:

now I will pay particular attention the the rattle/ chattering and clunks when they happen.

You know, I really wouldn't

 

These cone clutch gearboxes seem to work perfectly fine right up to the point that the cone packs up. What you are hearing is probably the input shaft bearing having a bit of a rattle. You haven't said oil was pouring out of the input shaft seal, and you would see that when you changed the driveplate. So the bearing can't be that bad

 

Getting obsessed about noises is just going to spoil your boating. Stop worrying about the gearbox, like most gearboxes it will let you know when it has a real problem, and little rattles don't count

 

Richard

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7 minutes ago, RLWP said:

You know, I really wouldn't

 

 you would see that when you changed the driveplate. So the bearing can't be that bad

 

 

 

Richard

I haven't changed the drive plate yet. I found the new looking one under the bed.

So could be on my list of jobs to do if it's the right one. No harm in trying if ive got one spare.

I just need to look into how to do it. 

 

Yes there are no oil leaks from the gearbox.

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20 minutes ago, rustydiver said:

I haven't changed the drive plate yet. I found the new looking one under the bed.

So could be on my list of jobs to do if it's the right one. No harm in trying if ive got one spare.

I just need to look into how to do it. 

 

Yes there are no oil leaks from the gearbox.

 

It will depend on where the rear feet are that hold the engine. Take off the prop coupling and push back the prop. Remove the cable to the gearbox. Next is unbolt the adapter that carries the gearbox, if the engine feet are on the adapter you will have to support the engine. Pull the gearbox off and unbolt the driveplate

 

Richard

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How to do it. There are so many variables that I can't really give an accurate 'Haines Manual' description but basically you need to detach that big coupling from the gearbox drive flange, push the shaft back a bit to give some clearance as the gearbox will need to be slid backwards a bit, undo the bolts holding the gearbox to the 'bell housing' which covers the engine flywheel and then you can pull the gearbox off. That exposes the drive plate which is bolted to the flywheel, undo the bolts around the rim of the plate and voila! Job sort of done. Re assembly is just putting it back together. There is nothing that you can damage doing this. Sometimes its hard to undo the drive plate bolts as the engine will turn so you will have to find some crafty way of stopping it rotating. Others will add to this I expect.

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1 hour ago, RLWP said:

 

It will depend on where the rear feet are that hold the engine. Take off the prop coupling and push back the prop. Remove the cable to the gearbox. Next is unbolt the adapter that carries the gearbox, if the engine feet are on the adapter you will have to support the engine. Pull the gearbox off and unbolt the driveplate

 

Richard

The rear feet for the engine is away from the bell housing, so fingers crossed shoaled be all ok.

Both of your descriptions you make it sound so simple .

Am i splitting on the black line or where the gearbox fits the housing?

 

Thanks for all your help so far.

 

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