Boat theming?

[koukouvagia]

9 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I regularly meet folk who know what Vulpes means. I meet fewer who pronounce it correctly.

 

What do you mean by correctly?  I think you must find very few indeed who pronounce the name of your boat "Wool-pes"

 

I wonder what old boatmen called it, cf. Beetlejuice, Dora-doo etc.

 

[WotEver]

53 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

What do you mean by correctly?  I think you must find very few indeed who pronounce the name of your boat "Wool-pes" 

Was that how it was pronounced by Woderwick?

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, koukouvagia said:

What do you mean by correctly?  I think you must find very few indeed who pronounce the name of your boat "Wool-pes"

 

I wonder what old boatmen called it, cf. Beetlejuice, Dora-doo etc.

 

You’ll be able to educate me. When I researched it the answer seemed to be that pronouncing “Vul” as “Wool” was old school Latin and a phonetic English pronunciation isn’t wrong. I also thought the e is a long vowel sound so more “peas” than “pez” as an English equivalent. The one crew member I have had on board who had studied Latin said “Vul-peas”.

 

The main confusion is some that folk read it as being a single syllable word like it’s the plural of “vulp”. That’s probably what an old boatman would have said but in reality they wouldn’t have called it anything as it’s essentially a modern leisure boat albeit an old one. 

 

In lists of boats I have compiled from my boating ancestors there is no provenance for Latin names on narrow boats. There are a few from Greek or Roman mythology. These became more common in latter carrying days with the GUCCCo fleet but those were of course indirect i.e. the boat was named after a celestial body that was named after a character from mythology.

 

JP

 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Captain Pegg

[Mike Todd]

56 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Was that how it was pronounced by Woderwick?

And not how a number of pronunciation web sites give it - although most are fairly poor quality sound.

[Johny London]

I spoke to someone who had had a boat wrapped. They told me that when they came to remove it (after a few years) it proved very difficult. Not heat nor chemicals worked. Can't remember for sure but I think they got it off by painstaking mechanical removal of some sort - maybe there are different types of vinyl in use, but something to consider.

I have often thought about starting a "Narrow Escape" lookout thread.

[koukouvagia]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

You’ll be able to educate me. When I researched it the answer seemed to be that pronouncing “Vul” as “Wool” was old school Latin and a phonetic English pronunciation isn’t wrong. I also thought the e is a long vowel sound so more “peas” than “pez” as an English equivalent. The one crew member I have had on board who had studied Latin said “Vul-peas”.

 

I bet this crew member was a great deal younger than me.  There has been a movement in the last thirty years or so to  pronounce Latin as though it were modern Italian,  Those taught Latin fifty odd years ago would pronounce the last syllable to rhyme with "days" and the "v" as a "w".  So I would say "wool-pays"

 

Incidentally since we are in pedant mode, it should be pointed out that a more usual spelling of Vulpes is Volpes. 

 

There are changing fashions in pronouncing classical Greek and Latin.  I remember hearing Harold Macmillan reciting Aeschylus with a plummy Edwardian accent which was barely comprensible to later generations. The fact is, it doesn't really matter.

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, koukouvagia said:

I bet this crew member was a great deal younger than me.  There has been a movement in the last thirty years or so to  pronounce Latin as though it were modern Italian,  Those taught Latin fifty odd years ago would pronounce the last syllable to rhyme with "days" and the "v" as a "w".  So I would say "wool-pays"

 

Incidentally since we are in pedant mode, it should be pointed out that a more usual spelling of Vulpes is Volpes. 

 

There are changing fashions in pronouncing classical Greek and Latin.  I remember hearing Harold Macmillan reciting Aeschylus with a plummy Edwardian accent which was barely comprensible to later generations. The fact is, it doesn't really matter.

Thank you.

 

I’ll use the proper pronunciation selectively as it will confuse. The taxonomic classification for the genus/species for the fox is Vulpes so I’m not changing the spelling of the name. It was derived from being a replacement boat for an ex-working boat named Fox.

 

The only theming it has is a fox shaped tiller pin. Do foxes dance and drink champagne or is just frogs? May be a missed opportunity for me there.

 

JP

Edited May 17, 2019 by Captain Pegg

[Mad Harold]

On 15/05/2019 at 17:33, koukouvagia said:

I don't mind Latin names providing the Latin's correct.  Often it isn't

 

Yeah,absolutely.

Nil Illigitemum Carborundum.

[Mike Todd]

18 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Yeah,absolutely.

Nil Illigitemum Carborundum.

Carborondum just ain't wot it used to be. Not up to scratch.

[MtB]

Sign on the exposed engine in the back of my mate's Beach buggy, back in 1973

 

ACHTUNG! -------- Das machine is nicht fur gerfingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der Sprinngwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das Dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das Pockets. Relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

 

Oh hang on, that's German isn't it? 

 

 

[Jim Riley]

You want Latin?

Si senor derdego, Forte lorez inaro 

Demainte lorez, Demiz trux

Fulla cowsan ensan dux 

[David Schweizer]

4 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

I bet this crew member was a great deal younger than me.  There has been a movement in the last thirty years or so to  pronounce Latin as though it were modern Italian,  Those taught Latin fifty odd years ago would pronounce the last syllable to rhyme with "days" and the "v" as a "w".  So I would say "wool-pays"

 

Incidentally since we are in pedant mode, it should be pointed out that a more usual spelling of Vulpes is Volpes. 

 

There are changing fashions in pronouncing classical Greek and Latin.  I remember hearing Harold Macmillan reciting Aeschylus with a plummy Edwardian accent which was barely comprensible to later generations. The fact is, it doesn't really matter.

So how would you pronounce Helvetia? I have heard several versions from Swiss and German people all of which are the same except for the sound of the second vowel, The commonest pronounciation I have heard in the UK is "hel vet eya" which is completey wrong.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by David Schweizer

[koukouvagia]

1 minute ago, David Schweizer said:

So how would you pronounce Helvetia? I have heard several versions from Swiss and German people, but the commonest one have heard in the UK is "hel-vet eya" which is completey wrong.

 

 

Yes I know you have a funny way of pronouncing the word - Hel veesha, If I remember correctly.

I suppose if I were being pedantic I say Hel -wet - ia.  I think I'd meet you somewhere in the middle and say Hel-vet-eya.  I'm not sure why you think this completely wrong, though.

As I've said before, it doesn't matter in the slightest.  Quot homines, tot sententiae, as Terence once said :).

[David Schweizer]

12 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

Yes I know you have a funny way of pronouncing the word - Hel veesha, If I remember correctly.

I suppose if I were being pedantic I say Hel -wet - ia.  I think I'd meet you somewhere in the middle and say Hel-vet-eya.  I'm not sure why you think this completely wrong, though.

As I've said before, it doesn't matter in the slightest.  Quot homines, tot sententiae, as Terence once said :).

Have you ever heard a Swiss national pronounce it that way?

 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by David Schweizer

[koukouvagia]

7 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Have you ever heard a Swiss national pronounce it that way?

 

 

I thought we were debating the pronunciation of Latin boat names.  I see now you are saying that your boat was really Swiss.  In which case I defer to your pronunciation.

[BilgePump]

2 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

Yes I know you have a funny way of pronouncing the word - Hel veesha, If I remember correctly.

I suppose if I were being pedantic I say Hel -wet - ia.  I think I'd meet you somewhere in the middle and say Hel-vet-eya.  I'm not sure why you think this completely wrong, though.

As I've said before, it doesn't matter in the slightest.  Quot homines, tot sententiae, as Terence once said :).

Swiss number plate CH. Confederartion Helvetica. The Swiss friends I've known have pronounced Helvetia like your middle ground.

[David Schweizer]

6 hours ago, BilgePump said:

Swiss number plate CH. Confederartion Helvetica. The Swiss friends I've known have pronounced Helvetia like your middle ground.

I conceed that is quite posible, but it depends very much which canton they come from and which language they speak,. My family come from the Emmental region within the Berne Canton where they speak Schweizer-Deutch, they still live in a traditional Emmental farmhouse very much like this one:-

 

 

Pronounciations in Switzerland are a problem, because within the four languages there are many distinct dialects. As an example, my family live in a small farming village called Reutenen, and pronounce it Roy-ten-en, but in Interlaken they pronounce it Roo-ten-en.

 

 

[koukouvagia]

6 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

I conceed that is quite posible, but it depends very much which canton they come from and which language they speak,. My family come from the Emmental region within the Berne Canton where they speak Schweizer-Deutch, they still live in a traditional Emmental farmhouse very much like this one:-

 

Pronounciations in Switzerland are a problem, because within the four languages there are many distinct dialects. As an example, my family live in a small farming village called Reutenen, and pronounce it Roy-ten-en, but in Interlaken they pronounce it Roo-ten-en.

 

 

Isn't this Discussion Forum a veritable mine of useless information? ?.  Long may it continue.

 

[Lysander]

20 hours ago, Jim Riley said:

You want Latin?

Si senor derdego, Forte lorez inaro 

Demainte lorez, Demiz trux

Fulla cowsan ensan dux 

Good grief! I haven't seen that since I was at school!

Anyone who was a stamp collector in their youth would recognise Helvetia and know exactly what it meant! Not how to pronounce it though - how many schoolboys thought Sweden was Sveridge to the natives?

[koukouvagia]

23 hours ago, Jim Riley said:

You want Latin?

Si senor derdego, Forte lorez inaro 

Demainte lorez, Demiz trux

Fulla cowsan ensan dux 

How about:

Caesar adsum jam forte,

Pompey aderat;

Caesar sic in omnibus,

Pompey inerat.

 

My first Latin grammar book was called  New Latin Course, which, of course, we always defaced to read New Satin Corsets.

 

[magictime]

On 17/05/2019 at 11:59, koukouvagia said:

I bet this crew member was a great deal younger than me.  There has been a movement in the last thirty years or so to  pronounce Latin as though it were modern Italian,  Those taught Latin fifty odd years ago would pronounce the last syllable to rhyme with "days" and the "v" as a "w".  So I would say "wool-pays"

I was taught Latin - horribile dictu - a mere thirty years ago, and that's how I would have pronounced it.

 

Latin A-Level was the low point of my academic career!

 

 

[Neil2]

On 14/05/2019 at 13:43, Jirmette said:

I have no idea if I'm opening a can or worms here so apologise if I am, I appreciate that these topics can become emotive, but what are general thoughts on theming a boat?

 

We want to rename our boat after my late parents, we also have a theme in mind that is linked to them and specific special memories, I'm not a gawdy person so would want it done tastefully, but appreciate it'd be changing the look of the boat quite significantly, hence after opinions please.

 

Thank you - please be nice, I'm new and vulnerable!

Personally I wouldn't do it.

 

At home we have lots of pictures and mementos of friends, family and pets who have gone before and to me that's where they belong, not on the side of a boat.  But I'm a dour Yorkshireman not given to demonstrative gestures, it just wouldn't fit with my personality.  For someone else it might work, but I think if you want to "theme" a boat you have to think quite carefully about how you might react when someone passes an opinion on it.  You have a right to do whatever you want with your boat, but if you place something on public display don't assume that people looking at it are going to respond with empathy.  As Peter Green put it, "don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to". 

 

 

 

 

[pete harrison]

Edit = deleted as comment made in error 

Edited May 18, 2019 by pete harrison

[ditchcrawler]

Its your boat, call it whatever makes you happy. If you sell the boat the new owner can change it

 

[Jim Riley]

4 hours ago, Lysander said:

Good grief! I haven't seen that since I was at school!

Anyone who was a stamp collector in their youth would recognise Helvetia and know exactly what it meant! Not how to pronounce it though - how many schoolboys thought Sweden was Sveridge to the natives?

Taught to me by my Grandad, John Zehnder, his Dad was a travelling Swiss tailor, very appropriate for this thread.