Scrapping old batteries

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I don’t know, he never told me...

 

I'll ask Naughty Cal for you, she'll know...

 

 

 

 

[blackrose]

I got 47 quid for them this morning. They only weighed 35kg each. Perhaps the yard's scales were out but I don't care. Nice old boys working there and it was very easy. They just pay the money into your bank account and it was in there within a couple of hours. That's better than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick, considering I was just going to take them to the council yard.

[dccruiser]

On 15/05/2019 at 20:56, roland elsdon said:

Does heavy water flow faster downhill?

Only on the Llangollen! 

 

Rck

[Stephen Jeavons]

On the subject of changing batteries, I just had to take out a dead one and shuffle the others about a bit. I moved some of the cables and when re-tightening the nuts on the terminals, sheared two off with very little spanner torque. On examination, the metal of the studs where they broke appear to be almost crystallized. Anyone else experienced this and can offer an explanation? Could the current passing through them somehow affect the metal composition? These clamps were brand new just last year. Quite worrying. I think I purchased them from Halfords. 

I'm now looking for premium quality battery clamps, and recommendations?

On the subject of changing batteries, I just had to take out a dead one and shuffle the others about a bit. I moved some of the cables and when re-tightening the nuts on the terminals, sheared two off with very little spanner torque. On examination, the metal of the studs where they broke appear to be almost crystallized. Anyone else experienced this and can offer an explanation? Could the current passing through them somehow affect the metal composition? These clamps were brand new just last year. Quite worrying. I think I purchased them from Halfords. 

I'm now looking for premium quality battery clamps, and recommendations?

[alan_fincher]

On 14/05/2019 at 19:18, Alan de Enfield said:

Mine are 53kgs each - try lifting 6 of them into a battery box whilst lying on your side !!!

Well to make it easier, I think I would try doing one at a time!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

55 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

On the subject of changing batteries, I just had to take out a dead one and shuffle the others about a bit. I moved some of the cables and when re-tightening the nuts on the terminals, sheared two off with very little spanner torque. On examination, the metal of the studs where they broke appear to be almost crystallized. Anyone else experienced this and can offer an explanation? Could the current passing through them somehow affect the metal composition? These clamps were brand new just last year. Quite worrying. I think I purchased them from Halfords. 

I'm now looking for premium quality battery clamps, and recommendations?

The original battery stud clamps on my boat failed in a different way. The softer metal of the clamps themselves cracked, rather than the terminal studs, or clamp bolts. As supplied by the boat builder after only a few years. They were replaced with a complete set from Midland SwChandlers. Been on there I don't know how many years now and still good, so a recommendation from me.. No idea what happened to the metal and I did a Materials Science degree back in the dawn of time. Possibly corrosion from some electrolyte spill when topping up, or perhaps from some H₂S gas released when charging? Sure you know this already, but the positive and negative pillars on the batteries are slightly different sizes and need the appropriate polarity stud calmps.

 

Jen

[Stephen Jeavons]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

 Sure you know this already, but the positive and negative pillars on the batteries are slightly different sizes and need the appropriate polarity stud calmps.

Jen

Hi Jen,

Yep! aware of the difference. None of mine have cracked on the actual clamp.

Probably has nothing to do with it but both studs that snapped were Negative ones. I'm now suspicious of all of my clamps and am thinking of swapping out the lot. As it is, some have metric threads and some imperial which is very annoying. With what to me looks like studs made of "monkey metal", I'm wondering if there are volt-drops through these things which is compromising performance/longevity of individual batteries in the bank. Must put the fluke across them and see. I'll take photos of the broken studs and post them on here.

 

Thanks for the tip. I'll buy some from Midlands and see what they're like.

Stephen

[WotEver]

6 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

I'm wondering if there are volt-drops through these things which is compromising performance

There will be. Battery connections should generally be very tight. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

8 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

Thanks for the tip. I'll buy some from Midlands and see what they're like.

Midland SwinChandlers may have changed suppliers since I purchased mine, but hopefully they'll still be good.

 

8 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

Yep! aware of the difference.

I wasn't! Found out the hard way. ?

Edited July 29, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Chewbacka]

2 hours ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

On the subject of changing batteries, I just had to take out a dead one and shuffle the others about a bit. I moved some of the cables and when re-tightening the nuts on the terminals, sheared two off with very little spanner torque. On examination, the metal of the studs where they broke appear to be almost crystallized. Anyone else experienced this and can offer an explanation? Could the current passing through them somehow affect the metal composition? These clamps were brand new just last year. Quite worrying. I think I purchased them from Halfords. 

I'm now looking for premium quality battery clamps, and recommendations?

On the subject of changing batteries, I just had to take out a dead one and shuffle the others about a bit. I moved some of the cables and when re-tightening the nuts on the terminals, sheared two off with very little spanner torque. On examination, the metal of the studs where they broke appear to be almost crystallized. Anyone else experienced this and can offer an explanation? Could the current passing through them somehow affect the metal composition? These clamps were brand new just last year. Quite worrying. I think I purchased them from Halfords. 

I'm now looking for premium quality battery clamps, and recommendations?

Curious bolt failure.  Did the bolts fail just below the head? Are they high tensile bolts (wouldn’t expect them to be)?  The surface sounds like a brittle failure, did they fail with a sharp crack sort of noise when tightening?

[Stephen Jeavons]

1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

Curious bolt failure.  Did the bolts fail just below the head? Are they high tensile bolts (wouldn’t expect them to be)?  The surface sounds like a brittle failure, did they fail with a sharp crack sort of noise when tightening?

No, not at all, more a crumple kind of noise and they broke almost flush where the stud protrudes through the clamp. They don't look high tensile to me. They have a serrated round head and are a press-fit into the clamp from the other side As I said earlier, the metal at the break seems to have almost crystallized. Never seen something break like that before. They were just 2 years old and outwardly looked like the day they were bought. No electrolyte had been spilled at any time and I wouldn't have thought these batteries have done much gassing either. It's a Res mooring and we have mains on 95% of the time so exposure to anything corrosive unlikely.

[Boater Sam]

47 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

No, not at all, more a crumple kind of noise and they broke almost flush where the stud protrudes through the clamp. They don't look high tensile to me. They have a serrated round head and are a press-fit into the clamp from the other side As I said earlier, the metal at the break seems to have almost crystallized. Never seen something break like that before. They were just 2 years old and outwardly looked like the day they were bought. No electrolyte had been spilled at any time and I wouldn't have thought these batteries have done much gassing either. It's a Res mooring and we have mains on 95% of the time so exposure to anything corrosive unlikely.

Sintered metal. Pressed from powder. Modern crap.

[Stephen Jeavons]

10 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Sintered metal. Pressed from powder. Modern crap.

You're probably right. It's certainly not fit for this purpose.

[Theo]

On 14/05/2019 at 21:18, roland elsdon said:

Make sure they are flat, you can get more water in if they are empty. Electrons take up the space. Thats why there is a gap above the plates. Its for the electrons normally.

But aren't the electrons more dense than water?

 

[dor]

On 15/05/2019 at 21:04, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

So how DO you make an AC battery then...?

 

 

I suppose the first step is decide how many Amps per hour it needs to deliver...

 

 

It’s not so much the battery as how you connect it.  So, connect the wires to the battery,  count to 1/50,  no, make that 1/100, then swap the wires over and repeat.

it can help the waveform if you throw a capacitor or two into the mix.

 

(need to find out how to do strike through.)

[Stephen Jeavons]

16 hours ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

You're probably right. It's certainly not fit for this purpose.

Here's a photo of the broken studs. One broke flush with the clamp, the other broke further in. Both are Negative terminals. The good Pos one is in the photo for comparison

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Stephen Jeavons

[Chewbacka]

Hard to see, but my guess is the studs had a manufacturing defect (crack) which with day/night temp cycling has caused the crack to grow, with some rusting taking place on the surface.  When you next tightened the studs the reduced area of the stud has torn in a ductile manner.

[Alan de Enfield]

I'd replace them all with supply from another source, and if possible a different 'brand'.

 

Keep the old ones in the tool box for "get you going" use if it happens again.

[WotEver]

They certainly don’t look like a sintered part to me, nor can I imagine why a company would want to go to the expense of sintering studs when they could be so quickly turned from bar stock with CNC machinery. I suspect something went amiss in the heat treatment.