EU Announce Brexit RCD Implications

[Alan de Enfield]

I know its 'Brexit' but it is regarding the RCD and affects Boat Building & Maintenance.

Extract of the site rules "Postings about waterway legislation, regulations, management, navigation, moorings, maintenance, and finance are permitted".

 

 

Subject to the transition period provided for in the Withdrawal Agreement, as of the withdrawal date the EU rules on recreational craft and personal watercraft, and in particular Directive 2013/53/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 November 2013 on recreational craft and personal watercraft will no longer apply to the United Kingdom. This has in particular the consequences set out below for recreational craft and personal watercraft placed on the Union (EU-27) market as of the withdrawal date.
 

We will no longer need to build in accordance with the RCD - even if we wish to sell within 5 years.

 

Bexit - RCD Implications.pdf

Edited May 12, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

Anyone in the UK building boats to sell in Europe will still need to comply with the RCD.

My understanding is that all existing EU law has been enacted into UK law, so will still apply to a non-EU UK until such time as the UK changes or repeals it. And I can't see the RCD being very high up the list of priorities.  That said, there may be even less enthusiasm to enforce the RCD requirements in the UK.

[Athy]

Does this mean that the petty and punitive ban on fitting new boats with vintage-style engines will be rescinded? If so, hoorah!

[magictime]

I may be above my political pay grade here, but isn't the way 'directives' work that the EU issues them and then each member state implements them in their own way in their own laws? In which case presumably some such UK law will remain in place regardless of whether the directive that originally prompted its passing still applies.

Edited May 12, 2019 by magictime

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Anyone in the UK building boats to sell in Europe will still need to comply with the RCD.

My understanding is that all existing EU law has been enacted into UK law, so will still apply to a non-EU UK until such time as the UK changes or repeals it. And I can't see the RCD being very high up the list of priorities.  That said, there may be even less enthusiasm to enforce the RCD requirements in the UK.

Anyone selling boats into the EU MUST comply, but they can only sell if they have applied for a manufacturers number to each country they plan to sell to.

As the UK will no longer be in the EU the right to issue manufacturers numbers will be withdrawn.

It is all explained in the Pdf.

 

In fact, my reading of it is, If we are selling boats within the UK then the RCD need not apply - and indeed - I think it will not be able to be applied as we can no longer issue manufacturers numbers.

 

We will no longer have control of the RCD and it is within the powers of the EU to withdraw it from a 3rd party country (as they intend to do)

Edited May 12, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Anyone selling boats into the EU MUST comply, but they can only sell if they have applied for a manufacturers number to each country they plan to sell to.

It is all explained in the Pdf.

If we are selling boats within the UK then the RCD need not apply - and indeed - I think it will not be able to be applied as we can no longer issue manufacturers numbers.

 

We will no longer have control of the RCD and it is within the powers of the EU to withdraw it from a 3rd party country (as they intend to do)

Would that mean UK builders couldn't build to sell in the EU or just the UK can't build to RCD standards for its own internal use.

[Richard10002]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Anyone selling boats into the EU MUST comply, but they can only sell if they have applied for a manufacturers number to each country they plan to sell to.

I read that they only have to apply for a number in one member state.

[Machpoint005]

25 minutes ago, magictime said:

I may be above my political pay grade here, but isn't the way 'directives' work that the EU issues them and then each member state implements them in their own way in their own laws? In which case presumably some such UK law will remain in place regardless of whether the directive that originally prompted its passing still applies.

 

Correct. That is exactly how it works. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Jerra said:

Would that mean UK builders couldn't build to sell in the EU or just the UK can't build to RCD standards for its own internal use.

I can only surmise, having only the same information as you.

 

1 minute ago, Jerra said:

Would that mean UK builders couldn't build to sell in the EU

Yes they can if they comply with the RCD and receive a manufacturers number from the country they plan to sell into.

 

2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

UK can't build to RCD standards for its own internal use.

It can of course build to the standard but cannot issue an RCD certificate and a manufacturers number.

We (they) could of course say "built in accordance with the requirements of the RCD"

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Richard10002 said:

I read that they only have to apply for a number in one member state.

You could well be correct :

 

Manufacturers established in the UK who currently have the unique code of the manufacturer assigned by the UK authorities and who intend to place their products on the EU-27 market as of the withdrawal date will be considered as manufacturers established in a third country. They will therefore have to apply for the assignment of a new unique code of the manufacturer to the national authorities of the EU-27 Member State in which the manufacturer intends to place the watercraft on the market.

 

Maybe you can only sell them to 'one state' (didn't they used to be called countries ?) and have a distributor / agent who can sell them within the rest of the EU ?

[Machpoint005]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

'one state' (didn't they used to be called countries ?)

 

The UK is a state consisting of two countries, a principality and a province. 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

The UK is a state consisting of two countries, a principality and a province. 

Doesn't that then make the EU a state consisting of 27 countries ?

[Richard10002]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You could well be correct :

 

Manufacturers established in the UK who currently have the unique code of the manufacturer assigned by the UK authorities and who intend to place their products on the EU-27 market as of the withdrawal date will be considered as manufacturers established in a third country. They will therefore have to apply for the assignment of a new unique code of the manufacturer to the national authorities of the EU-27 Member State in which the manufacturer intends to place the watercraft on the market.

 

Maybe you can only sell them to 'one state' (didn't they used to be called countries ?) and have a distributor / agent who can sell them within the rest of the EU ?

“The application shall be made in only one member state” on the second page...

 

Looks like once you’ve got a number in one state, you’re covered for all 27.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

“The application shall be made in only one member state” on the second page...

 

Looks like once you’ve got a number in one state, you’re covered for all 27.

Yes - I saw that which is why I thought maybe you have a distributor / agent who can sell them within the rest of the EU ?

 

I guess it'll take folks cleverer than us to work it out.

[Machpoint005]

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Doesn't that then make the EU a state consisting of 27 countries ?

 

No, why should it?

It's a union of 28 member states. I haven't counted the countries.

[Athy]

37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Doesn't that then make the EU a state consisting of 27 countries ?

Mostly, I think. But for example Luxembourg, which is a member, is a Grand Duchy, and Monaco, which is sort of a member, is a principality.

[frangar]

Hopefully the same will apply to red diesel too. If only our politicians would see sense and get on with it! 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Athy said:

Mostly, I think. But for example Luxembourg, which is a member, is a Grand Duchy, and Monaco, which is sort of a member, is a principality.

But neither are any of the EU member 'states'

 

The 4 criteria (defined by International law) for being a 'state' are :

 

(1) a permanent population,

(2) a defined territory,

(3) government and

(4) the capacity to entire into relations with other States

 

It would appear to me that the countries / Grand Duchy / principalities of the EU all fail on the fourth criteria as they are unable to make relations with other states.

 

Can Spain make a trade agreement with the USA outside of the EU - USA agreements ?

[Captain Pegg]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But neither are any of the EU member 'states'

 

The 4 criteria (defined by International law) for being a 'state' are :

 

(1) a permanent population,

(2) a defined territory,

(3) government and

(4) the capacity to entire into relations with other States

 

It would appear to me that the countries / Grand Duchy / principalities of the EU all fail on the fourth criteria as they are unable to make relations with other states.

 

Can Spain make a trade agreement with the USA outside of the EU - USA agreements ?

Missing the wood for the trees there. As in independent state Spain chooses to be a member of the EU - because it has the power to form a relationship with 27 other states. The fact that imposes a restriction on other deals is immaterial. No one forces them to be a member of the EU.

 

JP

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

Missing the wood for the trees there. As in independent state Spain chooses to be a member of the EU - because it has the power to form a relationship with 27 other states. The fact that imposes a restriction on other deals is immaterial. No one forces them to be a member of the EU.

 

JP

My thinking is that as a member of the EU Spain loses the status of 'state' as it can no longer make independent agreements and is simply a country within a state.

 

However - we will just have to disagree - this is not the Brexit thread.

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

In fact, my reading of it is, If we are selling boats within the UK then the RCD need not apply

That is true as far as the EU is concerned - they aren't interested in what happens on a non-EU state. But since the RCD requirements have been incorporated into UK law, then they will continue to be enforceable (if not necessarily actually enforced) in the UK.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

That is true as far as the EU is concerned - they aren't interested in what happens on a non-EU state. But since the RCD requirements have been incorporated into UK law, then they will continue to be enforceable (if not necessarily actually enforced) in the UK.

The problem will be that the manufacturer will not be able to use an 'acceptable' manufacturers mark to denote compliance.

 

If a UK customer buys a (say) Princess Yacht, he cannot then take it when he moves into France, unless he has a 'post build' RCD survey by an approved French surveyor, who can then issue a French RCD number / approval.

 

There is also a specific way for completed craft to be assessed called a Post Construction Assessment. The Regulations place the responsibility of ensuring the craft meets all the requirements of the RCD upon the person who first places the craft on the EEA market. First placing on the market is a legal term that has several meanings:

 

A UK "RCD" will not be acceptable anywhere else.

[Bee]

I wonder if this could make insurance a problem? If a non compliant vessel burns / explodes / sinks in the navigable channel could the ins. co. wriggle out of its responsibilites if faced with a heavy claim?

Edited May 12, 2019 by Bee
can't spell responsibilitys

[Richard10002]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The problem will be that the manufacturer will not be able to use an 'acceptable' manufacturers mark to denote compliance.

 

If a UK customer buys a (say) Princess Yacht, he cannot then take it when he moves into France, unless he has a 'post build' RCD survey by an approved French surveyor, who can then issue a French RCD number / approval.

 

There is also a specific way for completed craft to be assessed called a Post Construction Assessment. The Regulations place the responsibility of ensuring the craft meets all the requirements of the RCD upon the person who first places the craft on the EEA market. First placing on the market is a legal term that has several meanings:

 

A UK "RCD" will not be acceptable anywhere else.

Remind me why we are doing this.... presumably similar difficulties arise with most things. This is merely the boat market.

 

i know it’s not the Brexit thread, but you highlight one area where life will be difficult for manufacturers and owners - there will be many others. Completely unnecessary  ,  

[Bee]

Insurance and RCD, Could EU harbours and marinas be awkward about non RCD vessels staying? Having had a tussle over insurance some years ago I wonder if the lawyers are now examining every comma and clause in their policies?