Amsterdam Bans Diesel & Petrol Powered Boats Across 300 Sq Kms of the City

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

I agree with this -- it's pointless if you don't look at the whole picture. 

 

Unfortunately, successive governments have failed to recognise it by building huge power stations to feed a national grid, instead of encouraging local CHP schemes. Big business doesn't make much profit from the latter -- I wonder if there is a connection (pun intended)?

Wind turbines are local, thats the great thing about them, Ok the offshore ones are huge, but they are spacing them out around the coast , so things are getting better. Business is placing these things where they are needed, one day I have no doubt that all our coast will have them, for me thats a good thing, to others its a blot on the landscape, but its far better than burning fossil fuel

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

I did say very inefficient - even a first year physics student would recognise that any conversion process has some losses ie inefficiency. 

 

The other factor is the interaction of the means of transporting the energy with the rest of the equation. Eg, battery technology is at present very heavy and thus a further part of the comparative efficiency is in the additional energy required to move it around, compared with, say, petroleum products. 

 

One of my continuing gripes with some of my Environmental friends is that they all too frequently focus on part of the equation and ignore that rest, with the potential of making things worse not better. Electricity has all sorts of downsides esp with battery power - at the present. One factor that seems to get very little mention is the comparative safety of different energy technologies - eg diesel is inherently safer than petrol as far as unwanted combustion is concerned, but worse from a particulate aspect. All eco debates are hampered by the fact that we cannot (at least today) compute the total impact of any change, we have to make assumptions about the boundary conditions - at what point do we stop calculating the impact on the grounds that it is then trivial. If we cannot calculate the impact, how do we know it is trivial? 

The problem we have is with the here and now, we have to stop using carbon fuels are we die! so whilst something might not be efficient it is better than the alternatives [die] so whilst scientists are searching for something that might not exist we use the cleanest we have, and make using carbon based fuels prohibitively expensive to force change.

The reality is with a stop to charge batteries, one of the better electric cars would work, but in a way you are making excuses why it cant.

Now that might be its to expensive fair point, but Neil a friend of mine goes from Rotherham to London twice a week for free in his Tesla so all things are doable with planning

[Naughty Cal]

48 minutes ago, peterboat said:

The problem we have is with the here and now, we have to stop using carbon fuels are we die! so whilst something might not be efficient it is better than the alternatives [die] so whilst scientists are searching for something that might not exist we use the cleanest we have, and make using carbon based fuels prohibitively expensive to force change.

The reality is with a stop to charge batteries, one of the better electric cars would work, but in a way you are making excuses why it cant.

Now that might be its to expensive fair point, but Neil a friend of mine goes from Rotherham to London twice a week for free in his Tesla so all things are doable with planning

Ooo. Where can we get a free Tesla?

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

Wind turbines are local, thats the great thing about them, Ok the offshore ones are huge, but they are spacing them out around the coast , so things are getting better. Business is placing these things where they are needed, one day I have no doubt that all our coast will have them, for me thats a good thing, to others its a blot on the landscape, but its far better than burning fossil fuel

But onshore wind is now deprecated - largely through local NIMBY reactions to planning applications.

[Murflynn]

personally I find the view of a line of onshore wind turbines marching across the hills relatively pleasing, whilst the view of cables supported by pylons just looks industrial and out of place.

 

I hope to live long enough to see the day when nuclear provides for part of the base load, wind energy provides for most of the load and gas turbines provide only for occasional peak loads (bearing in mind that they can be run up and on line very quickly) and filling in where there is no wind.

 

surely wave energy should be a major resource, it seems incredible that no notable results have been achieved - similarly for tidal energy (of course the greens will say that anything that disrupts sea currents is bad for the environment  )

[Naughty Cal]

22 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

personally I find the view of a line of onshore wind turbines marching across the hills relatively pleasing, whilst the view of cables supported by pylons just looks industrial and out of place.

 

I hope to live long enough to see the day when nuclear provides for part of the base load, wind energy provides for most of the load and gas turbines provide only for occasional peak loads (bearing in mind that they can be run up and on line very quickly) and filling in where there is no wind.

 

surely wave energy should be a major resource, it seems incredible that no notable results have been achieved - similarly for tidal energy (of course the greens will say that anything that disrupts sea currents is bad for the environment  )

I agree. I think there is something quite theraputic about them.

 

Our new point of reference for getting off the M1 is the turbines at Penny Hill wind farm. Love them 

[Machpoint005]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

But onshore wind is now deprecated - largely through local NIMBY reactions to planning applications.

 

Plenty of it in Scotland and Wales -- it's just England where it no longer happens. Have a look at the Self-servative governments' planning reforms since 2010 if you want the reasons. 

1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

(of course the greens will say that anything that disrupts sea currents is bad for the environment  )

 

Only the less well informed Greens. Environments change, not necessarily for the worse.

[Guest]

I am all for electric boats in order to cut pollution. As I speak I am working on the propulsion system for my boat. I will run on standard  drill batteries and simply fire up the genny when they go flat. 
Not quite finished yet but here is a preview:

Edited May 14, 2019 by Guest

[Machpoint005]

4 minutes ago, catweasel said:

I will run on standard  drill batteries and simply fire up the genny when they go flat. 

 

After about ten minutes, then?

 

I'd be a bit bothered about shaft whirling long before the battery ran flat though!

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

I agree. I think there is something quite theraputic about them.

 

Our new point of reference for getting off the M1 is the turbines at Penny Hill wind farm. Love them 

Wallers which near the ulley wind farm are hoping for planning permission for 6 as well fingers crossed the council see sense

2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Ooo. Where can we get a free Tesla?

What you have to do is buy a lottery ticket and hope for the best!! Neils was 60K secondhand he was buying an F type jag until He had a chat with me, the biggest problem he has is getting the keys off his wife!!

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

he was buying an F type jag until He had a chat with me

I find this most odd. One is a small two seater high performance sports car and the other is a large five seater saloon. 

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

Neils was 60K secondhand he was buying an F type jag until He had a chat with me, the biggest problem he has is getting the keys off his wife!!

 

The biggest problem most of the population would have is getting or justifying £60k to spend on a car.

 

When you can get second hand EV's which still have 5 years of useable battery for at £10k they will become much more popular.

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

I find this most odd. One is a small two seater high performance sports car and the other is a large five seater saloon. 

And the Tesla will get to 100 mph before the F type gets to 60 so which is the high performance car?

He was trading in a XKR 5 litre model as he says he thought that was quick until he got in the Tesla, but at the end its down to practicality the Tesla charges for free at the superchargers  and he gets 45 pence a mile for work its a no brainer really?

[WotEver]

13 minutes ago, peterboat said:

its a no brainer really?

He certainly appears to have no brain if he thinks that a saloon car and a two seater sports car are interchangeable. 

[peterboat]

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

He certainly appears to have no brain if he thinks that a saloon car and a two seater sports car are interchangeable. 

I agree cant see why he wanted the F Type in the first place, I mean its so slow in comparison to a real sports saloon 0 -62 in 2.4 seconds isnt it?

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I agree cant see why he wanted the F Type in the first place, I mean its so slow in comparison to a real sports saloon 0 -62 in 2.4 seconds isnt it?

It’s a two seater. What’s speed got to do with anything?  You either want a two seater sports car or you want a saloon, they’re completely different things. Alternatives to the F-Type would be a Porsche, or an Aston, or an R8, or maybe an i8 if you wanted electric. To switch from a two seater sports car to a saloon car shows that he has no idea what he really wants. 

 

As for speed, I guess that entirely depends on your driving style. In the 5 years we’ve had our XKR I have only once floored it (on an Autobahn in Germany), and I eased off at about 125 and settled back to around 100. The number of times I’ve done a 4 second 0-60?  None. That’s what boy racers do. So personally I would never consider an alternative car just because it’s faster, as I can’t use the performance I have right now. I’d buy a saloon if I wanted one or a sports car if I wanted one of those. 

[Naughty Cal]

17 hours ago, peterboat said:

 

What you have to do is buy a lottery ticket and hope for the best!! Neils was 60K secondhand he was buying an F type jag until He had a chat with me, the biggest problem he has is getting the keys off his wife!!

Hardly an affordable car then?

[peterboat]

9 hours ago, WotEver said:

It’s a two seater. What’s speed got to do with anything?  You either want a two seater sports car or you want a saloon, they’re completely different things. Alternatives to the F-Type would be a Porsche, or an Aston, or an R8, or maybe an i8 if you wanted electric. To switch from a two seater sports car to a saloon car shows that he has no idea what he really wants. 

 

As for speed, I guess that entirely depends on your driving style. In the 5 years we’ve had our XKR I have only once floored it (on an Autobahn in Germany), and I eased off at about 125 and settled back to around 100. The number of times I’ve done a 4 second 0-60?  None. That’s what boy racers do. So personally I would never consider an alternative car just because it’s faster, as I can’t use the performance I have right now. I’d buy a saloon if I wanted one or a sports car if I wanted one of those. 

When we first Met Neil he had a XJR he changed to the XKR on a whim, and decided although it was a good car it wasnt great! the idea of a F Type was a whim as well, but after a chat, he decided he would have a look at the Tesla which in his words was light years better than the XKR, so he bought one, he dint even look at the F Type, he had already had a go in one and decided the Tesla was better. Its what real people do! As for the other cars you mentioned I just dont see Neil looking at them as a car dealer I have seen it lots of times. Although I repaired and sold Jags for years, I am not bothered about one now, why? because they are problematic unlike our two Honda's which are great cars. Dave who owns the Jag center now doesnt run a Jag, he has a Dodge pickup truck, because for him its a better vehicle for towing his caravan.

The simple answer is for Neil the Tesla makes perfik sense its saving him thousands of pounds a year and unless you have been in one you just dont know how good they are 

[GUMPY]

Bought a £60k car on a whim!

Obviously not from the same world as us mere mortals.

[peterboat]

38 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Bought a £60k car on a whim!

Obviously not from the same world as us mere mortals.

You cant take it with you, and think of the savings he is making London twice a week for free whilst getting 45 pence a mile soon adds up to more than the interest on the money in the bank

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

You cant take it with you, and think of the savings he is making London twice a week for free whilst getting 45 pence a mile soon adds up to more than the interest on the money in the bank

 

Congestion charge and emissions charge £24 per day so say £5k per annum. Say 10,000 miles at 0.45 ppm is £4.5k, so a saving of under £10k less electricty charges when not on a Tesla Supercharger.

 

So it will take 6 years to pay back. When I was at work if it didn't pay back in under 2 years it didn't get authorised.

[frangar]

3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Congestion charge and emissions charge £24 per day so say £5k per annum. Say 10,000 miles at 0.45 ppm is £4.5k, so a saving of under £10k less electricty charges when not on a Tesla Supercharger.

 

So it will take 6 years to pay back. When I was at work if it didn't pay back in under 2 years it didn't get authorised.

After 6 years I’m guessing it will either need new batteries or like a lot of modern cars something electronic will have died making it beyond economic repair....the yard near my unit has a endless supply of what I consider “modern” cars coming in to be scrapped..very rarely is it for a mechanical or corrosion failure...usually it’s electrical or electronic...and given that every year more gizmos are fitted to cars be they EV or ICE then this will only get worse....and hardly green! 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

So it will take 6 years to pay back. When I was at work if it didn't pay back in under 2 years it didn't get authorised.

We had similar policy, but, a car is not capital equipment - a car is a depreciating asset, written off at 50% per annum.

 

Going back to when I was 'working' 

We had a Peugeot 406 GTI which cost over £15k, (a lot of money in the late '80s) sold it after 11 months as it had reached the 65K mileage. Could not get anyone in the trade to take it, ended up selling it to the local Postman for £2k.

After that we stuck with 'quality cars'.

[Naughty Cal]

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

You cant take it with you, and think of the savings he is making London twice a week for free whilst getting 45 pence a mile soon adds up to more than the interest on the money in the bank

It is going to take a hell of a lot of miles at 45p to pay back his initial outlay.

[WotEver]

4 hours ago, peterboat said:

unless you have been in one you just dont know how good they are 

Completely irrelevant unless I was looking for a high-end saloon. Then I’d compare it with similarly priced saloons.