Beta Marine 35/38 coolant temperature sensor.

[pete.i]

18 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

It's not the length, it's the width. The switch is on a 6.35mm spade, the temp. sender one is smaller, 4.1mm, I think.

 

I did check one once, and, if I remember right, the resistance of the gauge terminal to body was about 150 Ohms.

Not on either of mine I'm afraid. I'll do a pic of both the old and the new sensors tomorrow when I go to the boat but both the width and the length of the terminals on the sensors that I have are exactly the same length and width. Also there is no resistance reading on either of mine. One is broken so that one is permanently open circuit on one terminal and shorted to body (earth) on the other. On the new one one terminal is electrically short the other does close if I apply a high temperature. I don't know what that temperature is because I just heated it up with a heat gun. I suppose the ones I have could be called a sender as it does send a signal to the LED to light but it most definetly isn't a varying resistance. I am not saying what you have observed is incorrect but the two sensors/senders that I have do not display those parameters and also do not match your description as far as the terminals are concerned.

 

Anyway as I say I will do some pics of the senders I have tomorrow and I will also fit the new, Chinese, sensor and gauge tomorrow and report back.

[pete.i]

Okay eating a 50% of humble pie here. I do have the old sensor in my garage and you are correct Iain_S about the width of the terminals. I cannot measure any resistance on that terminal though but having said that that is on the "faulty" sensor/sender. The new one is definetly on the boat so I will have a look at that tomorrow. If the extremely expensive Beta Marine sensor works with the gauge that I have all well and good. If it doesn't then I will use the chinese sender that came with the gauge All will be revealed on the morrow, hopefully. It's supposed to be piddling down here tomorrow so that may well put the kybosh on it.

[Boater Sam]

2 hours ago, john6767 said:

Just to clarify the new one is part number 200-01133, which is supposed to be a switch and sender, something wrong here..

If you use the new SWITCH on a temperature gauge, it will not work. If and when the engine gets hot enough to switch it on, it will destroy your gauge. It is NOT a gauge SENSOR, its a SWITCH!

[pete.i]

@boater sam. Um he hasn't got a new switch I have and I am agreeing with you. others, it would seem, do not agree with you. Either way I am going to try it tomorrow regardless of your capitols. if I destroy my 5 quids worth of Chinese gauge so be it. I will just carry on as normal with the LED till I get another gauge. But why read the posts properly when you can get all het up about nothing.

 

[john6767]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

If you use the new SWITCH on a temperature gauge, it will not work. If and when the engine gets hot enough to switch it on, it will destroy your gauge. It is NOT a gauge SENSOR, its a SWITCH!

The Beta parts list describes the part number I quoted as being both a switch and a sender, there is a separate part number for the one that is just a switch.  There has to be one that does both as it is a option to have the control panel that has gauges.  What I have ssid is that on our engine the sender has the two terminals, and the only unit that I can see tags has two, is the switch and sender unit, so I was thinking that I may be able to add a gauge, but just not got round to looking in detail.

[Ian F B]

Most temp gauges work on a thermal resistence principle,i.e.the higher the temperature the lower the resistance thus a higher voltage is passed to the gauge causing the pointer to register a higher temperature.

So one terminal is connected to the supply,12v, and the other is connected to the gauge in its simplest form.Is there a reading from terminal one to terminal two?????.

If the sender,sensor,has only one terminal it is a thermoswitch,which on reaching the excess temperature will short out,i.e.have a zero resistence,thus completing the circuit  and switching the warning light on.

A reading of between 150 to 450 ohms appears to be the most common value,both for switches and sensors however this is not set in stone

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Ian F B
Info

[Boater Sam]

3 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

If you use the new SWITCH on a temperature gauge, it will not work. If and when the engine gets hot enough to switch it on, it will destroy your gauge. It is NOT a gauge SENSOR, its a SWITCH!

Not het up at all, seemed not to be interpreting what everyone was saying, It matters not  a jot to me if the gauge gets wrecked. Only trying to help but no more. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Boater Sam

[Iain_S]

6 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

If you use the new SWITCH on a temperature gauge, it will not work. If and when the engine gets hot enough to switch it on, it will destroy your gauge. It is NOT a gauge SENSOR, its a SWITCH!

Agree it won't work ?, but it won't destroy the gauge, which will read zero unless the engine overheats, when it'll go full scale deflection. (Bit like a LandRover TD5 temp gauge, but a bit more extreme!)

This one will work but may require a BSP bush (1/2" to 3/8")

Edited May 7, 2019 by Iain_S

[Neil2]

Pete - I'm not sure that Chinese thingy will fit, it seems to be a metric thread and Kubota engines all use BSP threads I believe.  Having a trawl round other boating forums this seems to have caused problems in the US as the metric equivalent of BSP 1/8" is very close to it.    

[Tony Brooks]

11 hours ago, Ian F B said:

Most temp gauges work on a thermal resistence principle,i.e.the higher the temperature the lower the resistance thus a higher voltage is passed to the gauge causing the pointer to register a higher temperature.

So one terminal is connected to the supply,12v, and the other is connected to the gauge in its simplest form.Is there a reading from terminal one to terminal two?????.

If the sender,sensor,has only one terminal it is a thermoswitch,which on reaching the excess temperature will short out,i.e.have a zero resistence,thus completing the circuit  and switching the warning light on.

A reading of between 150 to 450 ohms appears to be the most common value,both for switches and sensors however this is not set in stone

 

 

 

Not on any I have seen. As we are talking Bi-coil gauges and not thermal then the gauge (be it temp. oil pressure, or fuel level has three terminals, One 12V plus, one negative and one that runs to the sender. The sender normally returns via the engine block but if you have two terminals on a SENDER then one will be the negative Now I have come across numerous so called marine stuff that has a negative terminal that turns out just to eb connected to the case so its still earth return but another return terminal is supplied. On the evidence of the OP's meter readings this is the case here.

 

The sender's resistance value depends upon if it is built to US or European standards. the values are :

 

Temperature US Standard 450 Ohms @ 100F > 30 Ohms @ 250F

Temperature European 280 Ohms @ 40C > 22 Ohms @ 120C

 

Sam's comment about burning out the new gauge if connected to the gauge (rather than a sender). I do not believe that is true because a "standard" method of testing for faults is to short the sender terminal to negative and see if the gauge reads full scale deflection. I have not ha done burn out yet but it may if left that way for long periods.

.

[pete.i]

52 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Pete - I'm not sure that Chinese thingy will fit, it seems to be a metric thread and Kubota engines all use BSP threads I believe.  Having a trawl round other boating forums this seems to have caused problems in the US as the metric equivalent of BSP 1/8" is very close to it.    

Well what I did on that score, and don't forget that this thing only cost a fiver for sender and gauge, I actually found a nut that fits the thread of the old one in my big box of bits. That screws on to the old sender and the new sender. it doesn't feel loose or tight so I'm fairly confident it will fit. I wont be going to the boat today to try all this stuff out cos it's peein down up here and I don't fancy hanging upside down in my engine hole in the rain. Of course if it doesn't fit or the gauge blows up I have only lost a fiver. Small beans in the boating world.

[Boater Sam]

I said nothing about "burn", it will go to full scale. So he may as well just have the LED light up, its more noticeable which after all is said and done is all that you are trying to achieve.  

Was attempting to impress the OP that it was a poor idea. But if you don't like the advice, tough.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

I said nothing about "burn", it will go to full scale. So he may as well just have the LED light up, its more noticeable which after all is said and done is all that you are trying to achieve.  

Was attempting to impress the OP that it was a poor idea. But if you don't like the advice, tough.

Post #28:-

16 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

If you use the new SWITCH on a temperature gauge, it will not work. If and when the engine gets hot enough to switch it on, it will destroy your gauge. It is NOT a gauge SENSOR, its a SWITCH!

So you did not say burn but did say destroy, nothing about full scale deflection. I do agree connecting a gauge to an overheats witch is  a very poor idea but I doubt it will destroy anything.

[pete.i]

OOHHHHH he does shout a lot, perhaps that is why I have him on ignore and cannot see his posts unless I don't log in which is a shame but that is the way it is for all forums. But the bottom line to all of this is that      a) I don't listen to rude and shouty people.   b) There is so much conflicting, um, lets call them "theories" shall we, that I am going to try this for myself. It won't do any harm except perhaps to my very very cheap gauge. If it all works I will take much delight in coming back here and telling the shouty persdon that he was wrong, yet again. Oh yeah, having just a red LED to tell whether an engine is overheating is a bloody silly idea in anyone's book. By the time that comes on said engine has siezed. Oh I wonder if that is the reason that Beta Marine or Kubota or whatever they call themselves decided to fit a temperature gauge in the end.

 

I might just start another thread on this subject if only in the, perhaps vain, hope that the rude and loud people stay away.

[Neil2]

3 hours ago, pete.i said:

Well what I did on that score, and don't forget that this thing only cost a fiver for sender and gauge, I actually found a nut that fits the thread of the old one in my big box of bits. That screws on to the old sender and the new sender. it doesn't feel loose or tight so I'm fairly confident it will fit. I wont be going to the boat today to try all this stuff out cos it's peein down up here and I don't fancy hanging upside down in my engine hole in the rain. Of course if it doesn't fit or the gauge blows up I have only lost a fiver. Small beans in the boating world.

True, I'm frankly amazed that you can get anything for a fiver these days, if it works that will be a real result.

[Boater Sam]

Sad, very sad. Glad to be ignored, thank you.

[pete.i]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-52mm-Digital-Car-Water-Temperature-Gauge-40-120-LED-Universal/283447330287?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

58 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

True, I'm frankly amazed that you can get anything for a fiver these days, if it works that will be a real result.

Well it did come from China and they do call me "dear" when they address me. Oh actually £5.69. To be honest I'd rather be called "dear" by some chinese chappy than being shouted at because I don't want to listen to conflicting advice. But, hopefully, that person will stay away from this thread now. Because the more he shouts the less likely people are to take him seriously. There's a lot of them sorts on this forum unfortunately.

Edited May 8, 2019 by pete.i

[WotEver]

@pete.i When it works I think a new thread with a catchy title like “Cheap temp gauge for Beta” would be an excellent idea

 

[frahkn]

10 hours ago, pete.i said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-52mm-Digital-Car-Water-Temperature-Gauge-40-120-LED-Universal/283447330287?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

Well it did come from China and they do call me "dear" when they address me. Oh actually £5.69. To be honest I'd rather be called "dear" by some chinese chappy than being shouted at because I don't want to listen to conflicting advice. But, hopefully, that person will stay away from this thread now. Because the more he shouts the less likely people are to take him seriously. There's a lot of them sorts on this forum unfortunately.

 

 

That's fine but if it is conflicting, which advice do you treat as "good" and which as "bad"?

 

While I fully agree that 'that person' is self opinionated and 'not nice', his advice is often good if you care to separate it from the casual abuse.

 

I can take any amount of 'not niceness' if as a result, I get informed advice. A little drivel mixed in doesn't bother me.

 

 

[Boater Sam]

9 hours ago, frahkn said:

 

 

That's fine but if it is conflicting, which advice do you treat as "good" and which as "bad"?

 

While I fully agree that 'that person' is self opinionated and 'not nice', his advice is often good if you care to separate it from the casual abuse.

 

I can take any amount of 'not niceness' if as a result, I get informed advice. A little drivel mixed in doesn't bother me.

 

 

Thank you Frahkn. That's honest.

I am usually pleasant. I am opinionated when I know what I am talking about. 

I try to be helpful, that is why I am on the forum, not for the frivolous drivel.

I do not suffer fools, ever.

Sam

[pete.i]

9 hours ago, frahkn said:

 

 

That's fine but if it is conflicting, which advice do you treat as "good" and which as "bad"?

 

While I fully agree that 'that person' is self opinionated and 'not nice', his advice is often good if you care to separate it from the casual abuse.

 

I can take any amount of 'not niceness' if as a result, I get informed advice. A little drivel mixed in doesn't bother me.

 

 

Read the thread properly. I am open to any advice but not when it comes in a rude and loud manner. I actually agreed with the said rude and loud person but he insisted on carrying on the conversation in capitol letters. Perhaps not to me but that is not the point. Sorry that isn't the way to conduct one's self in real life or on the internet. There are far too many self opinionated "keyboard warriors" on this forum and in the real world. Bottom line is that there is a lot of conflicting advice and opinions in this thread and others. That I can understand and ultimately I am competent enough to try things for myself. The way the stupidly expensive sender/sensor, that I bought from Beta Marine, didn't work in the way that I expected. I also didn't understand why it had a, seemingly, redundant terminal. I did suspect that what the shouting person had said was correct and actually said so but he continued to shout and bawl at people. I don't post much on this forum and when I have posted on more than one occasion I have had my posts answered in a "superior" and in my opinion, mocking, way by people who should know better. Subsequently I do not post very much. This boat I have now is my third boat. I have done extensive work on all three of my boats both on the engines and to the rest of them. I have worked a lot on other people's boats and so far haven't had any disasters. I have bought a knackered and apparently been sunk engine (BMC 1.5,) stripped it down completely and rebuilt it. I ran that engine in my garage on a pallet so it was working fine. It was bought as a spare for the engine in my first boat and as I didn't  want to, particularly, have to remove that engine I stripped it all down again for spares. I sold part of it to a couple of the contributers on this forum the rest went with the boat when I sold it.

 

I do not need the advice of a self opinionated, loud and rude people whoever they may be. That person is the first and only forum member that I have ever put on ignore although there are many more, so called, contributers to this forum that have an overly high opinion of themselves. Loud and rude advice in  my opinion is not good advice and I choose to ignore it. What you do is your affair.

[WotEver]

Anyway... have you had a chance to try it yet or is it still piddling down?

[frahkn]

1 hour ago, pete.i said:

Read the thread properly.  ....... What you do is your affair.

 

Bit of a contradiction there??

[Ian F B]

Schematic of temperature sensor circuit taken from my thornycroft manual,.May be of use to someone????

Edited May 9, 2019 by Ian F B
Spelling.

[WotEver]

23 minutes ago, Ian F B said:

Schematic of temperature sensor circuit taken from my thornycroft manual,.May be of use to someone????

And a temp gauge would be exactly the same except the gauge would have another permanent -ve connection. (Oh, and no buzzer on the gauge circuit, so not exactly the same  )