Boat for sale review

[Mick in Bangkok]

8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Point of Order M'lud.

 

"BMC" is what estate agents, chavs and non-boat people call it. It's a "back cabin" if you don't want to get judged in certain quarters to be someone who knows nothing about boats or canals, and is not interested in learning.... 

 

<Awaits incoming  >

I'm here to learn before retiring to the water so thank you for the correction

[Mick in Bangkok]

11 minutes ago, frahkn said:

 

To deal with this question only.

 

I am retired and spend at least six months of each year cruising. My boat is 70 feet and draws 31 inches under the skeg.  While obviously this denies me most of the northern network (and some other little bits), it really does not inconvenience me. When I want to go north I will hire or perhaps arrange a swap. There is no substitute for genuine room on a live aboard boat.

May I ask is it the length or drawing 31" that limits the most and what would you recommend as maximum or acceptable in either case.       

 

Your situation sounds similar as what I am considering, 6 months of cruising each year.

[frahkn]

5 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

May I ask is it the length or drawing 31" that limits the most and what would you recommend as maximum or acceptable in either case.       

 

Your situation sounds similar as what I am considering, 6 months of cruising each year.

 

I don't find the depth much of a problem - ok there are places where you see boats moored and find it too shallow to get in yourself but you will always find somewhere else. The length is an absolute bar to most of the northern canals and may reduce the choice of winding holes but it's not really a problem. Once you are over 60 feet you may as well be 70 and have the extra space.

[Mick in Bangkok]

5 minutes ago, frahkn said:

 

I don't find the depth much of a problem - ok there are places where you see boats moored and find it too shallow to get in yourself but you will always find somewhere else. The length is an absolute bar to most of the northern canals and may reduce the choice of winding holes but it's not really a problem. Once you are over 60 feet you may as well be 70 and have the extra space.

Looking at an online map I understood that 10% of the canals up north would be out of reach, would you consider this estimate to be low?

[frahkn]

Just now, Mick in Bangkok said:

Looking at an online map I understood that 10% of the canals up north would be out of reach, would you consider this estimate to be low?

 

I have not worked it out but all three of the cross pennine routes - the Huddersfield, the Rochdale and the Leeds and Liverpool have too short locks to be passable to boats over 62' . Similarly the Lancaster canal (though lock free) cannot be reached via the Ribble link. So, in practice, the only access to the Northeast waterways is via the tidal Trent.

 

The experts will be along shortly with more precise limits.

[TheBiscuits]

19 minutes ago, frahkn said:

I have not worked it out but all three of the cross pennine routes - the Huddersfield, the Rochdale and the Leeds and Liverpool have too short locks to be passable to boats over 62'

@dmr  How is your 70'+ boat doing on the Rochdale?  I think you have been there for a while now.

 

[dm6045]

Lovely boat it was 2 along from us in the marina a couple of months ago and we had a cheeky look onboard. Only things I thought was that the bathroom didn’t really seem to match the rest of the boat (can’t explain just felt like it belonged somewhere else), and In my opinion the paintwork was starting to look a little tired (maybe just needed a good polish didn’t look too hard). And finally and most importantly it has a built in ironing board behind the dresser mirror in the bedroom and that should be got rid of imidiately just because nobody got time for that!!! ?

[alan_fincher]

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

Old friends is 70 and 2". We have to lift the rear fenders when doing several of the Birmingham flights, but not all. It isn't a big task and just keeps you on your toes....I now tend to run without a front fender anyway.

 

We always do locks with no front fender - not really any other choice on the BCN.

 

Lifting one of the three rear fenders on Flamingo is also more or less standard, leaving the button stacked on the tipcats, but most BCN locks need the second one lifted, and then the juggling act gets rather harder.

 

We were originally gauged at 71' 8", though I have never measured us to prove whether that's right, or whether the nominal quoted length of 71' 6" is more accurate.  However in the very shortest locks, going downhill, the steerer has to cling on to the rubbing plate of the top gate and try to hold the stern absolutely tight against the cill, whilst the lock operator has to push the bow as tight as it will go against the "non gate" side at the bottom of the lock.  In some even doing this, the single bottom gate clears by only about 1/2".  An inch longer and we definitely couldn't get through.

 

At 70' 2" you'll not have those problems, but certainly once over 71' feet they become significant.  Also if you are 6' 10" rather than 7' 1" beam, you will be able to get more "diagonal" in narrow locks, which again slightly increases the space on the "non gate" side.  I doubt any sensible modern bulder will go much over 70 feet - given that locks can seem to get ebuilt shorter, it's a wise precaution for future proofing.

The two tightest locks we have done are Curdworth top, and one of the ones in the Lapworth flight, (the one with hydraulic paddles I think).  The first of these is a brand new lock at a new location built in fairly  recent years, the second apparently was also the subject of a total rebuilding also.  Both are really "too short" for Grand Union boats - or at least our example of one.

[Alan de Enfield]

If you really want a boat with maximum internal space, and are prepared to forego the pleasures of some canals I'd suggest you go for a 50 foot x 10 or 12 foot widebeam.

 

You get everything that you'd get with a anorexic slug but even more space.

[mark99]

I've been looking at this boat for some time thinking it was a stunner.

 

Lovely shell. Great pedigree.

 

Lovely engine - not 100% sure but 2L2 spares may not be readily available as 2LW Gardners - but Gardners are very reliable to say the least.

 

Sleeping in the back cabin - best place to be honest very cosy.

 

It's perhaps the odd-ish length that has held it back plus the serious trad types might poo poo the bus windows. Neither of those would put me off.

 

A good valeting of the paintwork and perhaps some alkyd varnish on the signwriting rear panels would bring the boat right up in appearance (it looks good in photo's anyhow).

Edited May 6, 2019 by mark99

[alan_fincher]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you really want a boat with maximum internal space, and are prepared to forego the pleasures of some half the canals in the country, and restrict yourself either to "South" or "North", whilst pissing off a large number of canal users each time you move, I'd suggest you go for a 50 foot x 10 or 12 foot widebeam.

 

You get everything that you'd get with a anorexic slug but even more space.

 

Let me correct that for you

[mark99]

25 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Let me correct that for you

 

Widebeam....... like owning an Americam Hummer car and driving it down the west country lanes.

 

NB I've noticed a strong similarity between Roger Fuller shells and Steve Priest shells.

 

Edited to add Simon Wain/Steve Priest (I'm no expert and always get these two talents mixed up!).

 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by mark99

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

If you really want a boat with maximum internal space, and are prepared to forego the pleasures of some half the canals in the country, and restrict yourself either to "South" or "North", whilst pissing off a large number of canal users each time you move, I'd suggest you go for a 50 foot x 10 or 12 foot widebeam.

 

Whilst in principle I'd agree with, it is another option that the OP may wish to consider.

 

The canals are no longer the 'playground of the 7 footer' we need to adapt as the canal / river usage evolves.

 

Yes - you would need to lift out to go from North to South but having spent a (?) couple of years in one, lift out and spend a (?) couple of years in the other.

 

I think your suggestion of 'half the canals' is a little exaggerated if you look at the charts for where a 12' 6" beam can go.

 

Thick blue lines = 12' 6" will pass

Thin blue lines = 7' will pass.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[alan_fincher]

3 minutes ago, mark99 said:

NB I've noticed a strong similarity between Roger Fuller shells and Steve Priest shells.

I must admit that until it was advertised for sale all those moths ago, I had always assumed Frogmore to be a Roger Fuller build.  I suppose I have come to associate Steve Priest, Simon Wain and the Brinklow team with "Grand Union" remakes, and not really with Josher look alikes.

It's an attractive boat from outside, certainly  I'm not sure if the only reason it has failed to sell so far is over-pricing, but it certainly seemed to start off far too high.  There are quite a few boats from the top end builders, some now quite old, where those pricing them up seem to have got too greedy.

[alan_fincher]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I think your suggestion of 'half the canals' is a little exaggerated if you look at the charts for where a 12' 6" beam can go.

That map suggests a 12' 6" beam can pass all the way up the Grand Union to nearly Birmingham, or indeed along the K&A.

There is a world of difference between "can" and them being suitable boats for those waterways.

I based my answer on suitability, not upon theoretical maximum size.

I assumed Mick actually wants to go boating with whatever he buys, and not piss off the other users of waterways he takes it on.

[Mick in Bangkok]

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you really want a boat with maximum internal space, and are prepared to forego the pleasures of some canals I'd suggest you go for a 50 foot x 10 or 12 foot widebeam.

 

You get everything that you'd get with a anorexic slug but even more space.

Thanks for the suggestion but I think I am not suited to a wide beam, a trad with back cabin and vintage engine ticks my boxes

[mark99]

OCD alert......... change the exhaust wrapping to titanium wrap.

[mark99]

I'm sure the Op knows this but every single boat is a comprimise. There will always be a few things that could be viewed as suboptimal. But the only way to find out is to shortlist and view.

Edited May 6, 2019 by mark99

[ditchcrawler]

10 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

Mabey it is just a romantic notion but I would presume the BMC to be quite usable space for gusts while cruising, dining and as a spare bedroom when guests are on board, am I right in this thinking?

Also the trads without BMC have engine rooms at the very back of something like 4f so a mid engine room of 6ft and the ability of hanging/drying cloths would be a plus considering would be a drying machine, also a bulky item

We sleep in our BMC and you hard pushed to find our engine sometimes, a wonderful drying area

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

We sleep in our BMC and you hard pushed to find our engine sometimes, a wonderful drying area

 

Beware taking advice from that nice Mr Crawler. He also goes boating wearing a Father Christmas outfit, according to his avatar...

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Beware taking advice from that nice Mr Crawler. He also goes boating wearing a Father Christmas outfit, according to his avatar...

 

 

Thats right boy, and I sometimes wear a captains hat to look a real *****

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Thats right boy, and I sometimes wear a captains hat to look a real *****

 

You don't need the captain's hat..... 

 

(Just kidding really!!) 

 

 

 

 

[Richard10002]

13 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

May I ask is it the length or drawing 31" that limits the most and what would you recommend as maximum or acceptable in either case.       

 

Your situation sounds similar as what I am considering, 6 months of cruising each year.

How many of you will be living on this boat during the 6 months?

[Mick in Bangkok]

6 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

How many of you will be living on this boat during the 6 months?

Just myself and my wife with perhaps my sister visiting for some weekends

[Richard10002]

Just now, Mick in Bangkok said:

Just myself and my wife with perhaps my sister visiting for some weekends

Then you only need one double bedroom, and either a convertible dinette, or a sofa bed arrangement in the lounge.

 

Based on my experience, you would soon tire of such a small lounge, and you may also be frustrated by the length.

 

You should be able to get what you want in something between 57ft and 62ft, which removes all of the navigation limits.

 

Obviously up to you in the end, but that small lounge is a deal breaker for me, on such a big boat.