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7 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

No canal experience to speak off but I was of the mind with a live aboard that day to day comfort would out weigh some canels not available for cruising

For me it would be the other way around?. Unless you have a particular need for the space I would be tempted to begin with a ‘go anywhere’ length of about 58ft. You can always sell and go bigger if needs be. On the other hand I tend to think that longer boats are slower to sell (perhaps borne out by your experience of this one) so it might not be so easy to trade down. 

Whatever you choose, go for quality.  

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An odd concern perhaps but with the additional steps and raised floor height in the engine room (if pics show proper conditions) would this make for an awkward passage through the boat.

Also the Dolphin M3 cocooned diesel 3.5kVA generator would seem like a big plus but as I am a novice would the experienced boaters consider this overkill?

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5 minutes ago, starman said:

For me it would be the other way around?. Unless you have a particular need for the space I would be tempted to begin with a ‘go anywhere’ length of about 58ft. You can always sell and go bigger if needs be. On the other hand I tend to think that longer boats are slower to sell (perhaps borne out by your experience of this one) so it might not be so easy to trade down. 

Whatever you choose, go for quality.  

This is an interesting point, I was planning to spend months on board in retirement and thinking of comfort, also with the canal network available was assuming still plenty of places to9 go even with up to 70' if boat owners with long term cruising on board find this to be the other way around I would appreciate the heads up

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2 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

An odd concern perhaps but with the additional steps and raised floor height in the engine room (if pics show proper conditions) would this make for an awkward passage through the boat.

Also the Dolphin M3 cocooned diesel 3.5kVA generator would seem like a big plus but as I am a novice would the experienced boaters consider this overkill?

Not really, you get used to the step up as you shimmy past the Gardner in the Shrine. But if you are overly tall or have a back disorder it has to be considered. Noted the headroom advertised as 6' 2" which is not a lot.

 

The generator is a good idea as it will be quiet, cope with the washer and probably heat water if its plumbed properly. Better than running a big engine in unsociable hours if you need some power. Get a bit of battery charging too. As a liveaboard boat its sensible.

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5 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

An odd concern perhaps but with the additional steps and raised floor height in the engine room (if pics show proper conditions) would this make for an awkward passage through the boat.

Raised floor in the back cabin is necessary due to the prop shaft below. Raised floor in the engine room is probably to allow space for fuel tanks, batteries etc below. Personally I don't find it that much of a problem, but you may or may not have full standing headroom.

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54 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

and if you talk to brokers they say BMC trads are the hardest narrowboats to sell. 

 

This is hardly surprising, given that a BMC is perhaps the most inappropriate engine imaginable for any boat laid out in the trad style, with a separate engine room and back cabin.

 

Anyway I expect that nice Mr Fincher will be along shortly to point out on an unconverted historic boat, it isn't even called the 'back cabin', it's just 'the cabin'. 

 

But we are talking modern boats here with forward cabins too, so I hold 'back cabin' is the right term for it!

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22 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is hardly surprising, given that a BMC is perhaps the most inappropriate engine imaginable for any boat laid out in the trad style, with a separate engine room and back cabin.

 

Anyway I expect that nice Mr Fincher will be along shortly to point out on an unconverted historic boat, it isn't even called the 'back cabin', it's just 'the cabin'. 

 

But we are talking modern boats here with forward cabins too, so I hold 'back cabin' is the right term for it!

Is this humour or obfuscation Mike? Boat Man's Cabin not British Motor Corporation dear boy.

True its "cabin" and "Forecabin", the first as the boatman's comfort, the later for horse tack and food.

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26 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

This is hardly surprising, given that a BMC is perhaps the most inappropriate engine imaginable for any boat laid out in the trad style, with a separate engine room and back cabin.

Norty - you should show a little more latitude for a newbie.

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42 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

This is an interesting point, I was planning to spend months on board in retirement and thinking of comfort, also with the canal network available was assuming still plenty of places to9 go even with up to 70' if boat owners with long term cruising on board find this to be the other way around I would appreciate the heads up

 

You can always hire on the shorter locked canals.

 

For example the ubiquitous 57 foot "go anywhere" boat still couldnt get to the Mon & Brec so easier to hire if you wanted to go there.

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51 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is hardly surprising, given that a BMC is perhaps the most inappropriate engine imaginable for any boat laid out in the trad style, with a separate engine room and back cabin.

 

 

Tee-hee.

You jest, but I have seen one - a fine-lined 40-odd-footer "Lincoln tug" with, in its separate engine room, a proudly displayed B.M.C.1500. I've forgotten the builder; could have been French & Peel, or possibly French & Saunders.

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Personally i dont think its one of their best but this is simply down to coach windows and a bus motor, the owners choice.

 Other than that its a Steve Priest. Proper draft proper design and probably superb handling. Ignore the draft we have more and go everywhere with half the power.

i think the length is odd.

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47 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Personally i dont think its one of their best but this is simply down to coach windows and a bus motor, the owners choice.

 Other than that its a Steve Priest. Proper draft proper design and probably superb handling. Ignore the draft we have more and go everywhere with half the power.

i think the length is odd. 

I also think the length to be odd, I would prefer something longer, between 68 to 72 as this would give best space without much more compromise, am I correct in this thinking?

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Just now, Mick in Bangkok said:

I also think the length to be odd, I would prefer something longer, between 68 to 72 as this would give best space without much more compromise, am I correct in this thinking?

Ain't much difference Mick, and if you like the back cabin then frogmore has pretty much the most use of boat you will get other than a 70 footer, and then you might not get the pedigree or enjun. 

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7 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Ain't much difference Mick, and if you like the back cabin then frogmore has pretty much the most use of boat you will get other than a 70 footer, and then you might not get the pedigree or enjun. 

I do find this boat very tempting, BMC, engine, quality and lay out but would actually prefer another 10ft of forward cabin space, I guess a 72ft would lose me some canals but still from the maps I look at enough to keep me busy. I get my information from this forum so any member reading this who disagrees please do step in and correct me.

 

I would consider the draught more of an issue but otherwise would prefer maximum length. s handling very different on better quality built boats? 

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You give away cabin space in the right place, in return for the engine room and the back cabin. I'm on a 45ft cruiser stern with 1 double bedroom and a good sized shower room. My lounge is similar, maybe bigger, than the one in the pictures. Admitedly, you have a dinette.

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72' would lose you more than a few canals, as quite a lot of locks in and around Birmingham could not pass a boat if that length.

 

71' 6" will get through those locks, (some with a bit of wrestling), but 72' most definitely will not.

Unless you want a genuine historic working boat, I personally would put the upper limit at no more than 70 feet.  It really is quite hard work having to lift fenders at both ends, and fold rudders flat against counters to pass through the shorter locks.  I know this, because we regularly have to.

 

 

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1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:

72' would lose you more than a few canals, as quite a lot of locks in and around Birmingham could not pass a boat if that length.

 

71' 6" will get through those locks, (some with a bit of wrestling), but 72' most definitely will not.

Unless you want a genuine historic working boat, I personally would put the upper limit at no more than 70 feet.  It really is quite hard work having to lift fenders at both ends, and fold rudders flat against counters to pass through the shorter locks.  I know this, because we regularly have to.

 

 

Thank you for confirming this, I was also thinking 68 to 70

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4 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

You give away cabin space in the right place, in return for the engine room and the back cabin. I'm on a 45ft cruiser stern with 1 double bedroom and a good sized shower room. My lounge is similar, maybe bigger, than the one in the pictures. Admitedly, you have a dinette.

Mabey it is just a romantic notion but I would presume the BMC to be quite usable space for gusts while cruising, dining and as a spare bedroom when guests are on board, am I right in this thinking?

Also the trads without BMC have engine rooms at the very back of something like 4f so a mid engine room of 6ft and the ability of hanging/drying cloths would be a plus considering would be a drying machine, also a bulky item

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Old friends is 70 and 2". We have to lift the rear fenders when doing several of the Birmingham flights, but not all. It isn't a big task and just keeps you on your toes....I now tend to run without a front fender anyway.

I have worked on Frogmore a couple of times and compared notes on our engines with him on many occasions. He even asked us to fit a galvanic isolator, I found one already installed behind his control panel and saved him the expense!!

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10 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

Mabey it is just a romantic notion but I would presume the BMC to be quite usable space for gusts while cruising, dining and as a spare bedroom when guests are on board, am I right in this thinking?

Also the trads without BMC have engine rooms at the very back of something like 4f so a mid engine room of 6ft and the ability of hanging/drying cloths would be a plus considering would be a drying machine, also a bulky item

 

Point of Order M'lud.

 

"BMC" is what estate agents, chavs and non-boat people call it. It's a "back cabin" if you don't want to get judged in certain quarters to be someone who knows nothing about boats or canals, and is not interested in learning.... 

 

<Awaits incoming ;) >

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6 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

This is an interesting point, I was planning to spend months on board in retirement and thinking of comfort, also with the canal network available was assuming still plenty of places to9 go even with up to 70' if boat owners with long term cruising on board find this to be the other way around I would appreciate the heads up

 

To deal with this question only.

 

I am retired and spend at least six months of each year cruising. My boat is 70 feet and draws 31 inches under the skeg.  While obviously this denies me most of the northern network (and some other little bits), it really does not inconvenience me. When I want to go north I will hire or perhaps arrange a swap. There is no substitute for genuine room on a live aboard boat.

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