A month's CRT Licence

[Momac]

7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

a disadvantaged member of the boating community, incapable of negotiating the administrative minefield applying and paying for a licence represents to you

 

 

Such a person only has to go to an office of C&RT or one of their agents who issue a license and make a payment.

But that may be too great a task.

If you wanted to help such  a person you could take them to such a place  and help them or you could probably make the license payment over the phone if the disadvantaged person was present or if you had the disadvantaged persons name and insurance policy number and BSS expiry date.

[Momac]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But you cannot insure something unless you have an 'insurable interest' in the object

I didn't intend to suggest you could.

 

I don't think it is fraud to take out the insurance unless part of some other greater plan to commit fraud. But the insurance would not be valid if you had suffered no financial loss.  And if you did make a claim that would then be attempted fraud. 

[MtB]

Just as happened last time, all manner of alternative solutions are being offered instead of addressing the question.

 

"Can a person licence a boat that does not belong to them?"

 

Now The Biscuits is claiming to be a disadvantaged boater struggling to negotiate the CRT minefield and license his boat, and I'd delighted to help him out but even the briefest check shows him up for the fraudster he is. 

 

"This boat is licensed. The owner might have forgotten to display it."

 

BUSTED!!!

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/licensing/boat-check/status/509241

 

 

 

 

[haggis]

When we bought kelpie (on the last day of February) we licensed it from the 1st of March (after obtaining insurance) and neither the insurance company nor C & RT asked if we owned the boat.  The previous owner hadn't notified anyone that the boat was sold. Actually technically we didn't own kelpie when we licensed it as we hadn't paid for it at that point.

 

haggis

[MtB]

39 minutes ago, haggis said:

When we bought kelpie (on the last day of February) we licensed it from the 1st of March (after obtaining insurance) and neither the insurance company nor C & RT asked if we owned the boat.  The previous owner hadn't notified anyone that the boat was sold. Actually technically we didn't own kelpie when we licensed it as we hadn't paid for it at that point.

 

haggis

 

On reflection this is most curious.

 

As CRT didn't know the boat had been sold, did you happen to buy it on the day the old licence expired? Just wondering how it all works with their new rule of licences not being transferred when ownership changes. This rule sort of implies only the owner can purchase a licence.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

On reflection this is most curious.

"When applying for the Licence, you are asked to declare the following details of the Boat’s insurance:
 Name of insurance provider
 Policy number
 Expiry date of the policy
The policy holder’s name must be the same as the Licence applicant.
Your renewal reminder shows the policy name, number and expiry date that we currently hold for you in our records. You must update this by correcting these details on the form".

 

It looks as if "YOU" are licensing the boat then you must also be the holder of the insurance.

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Now The Biscuits is claiming to be a disadvantaged boater struggling to negotiate the CRT minefield and license his boat, and I'd delighted to help him out but even the briefest check shows him up for the fraudster he is. 

 

You are the one who wanted to try and pay for somebody else's licence, so I volunteered my services to help with your research. 

 

I never claimed to be struggling, but if someone wants to pay my licence I'll take the grand quite happily.

 

[MtB]

29 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

You are the one who wanted to try and pay for somebody else's licence,

 

I never said that. I said I wanted to license somebody else's boat, if you go back and check. 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, MartynG said:

Only if the license was applied for in the name of the boat owner , and the boat owner had valid insurance and the boat has a valid boat safety certificate.

 

 

 

 

But CRT dont KNOW I own my boat.

[haggis]

47 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

On reflection this is most curious.

 

As CRT didn't know the boat had been sold, did you happen to buy it on the day the old licence expired? Just wondering how it all works with their new rule of licences not being transferred when ownership changes. This rule sort of implies only the owner can purchase a licence.

 

 

The licence had in fact expired a couple of months before.  When we knew we were going to look at the boat (which we had already seen some time before and we were therefore fairly sure we would buy it)  we had the necessary insurance and licence forms ready to be emailed if we decided to buy the boat.  It had a valid BSS. 

 

haggis

[Horace42]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

On reflection this is most curious.

 

As CRT didn't know the boat had been sold, did you happen to buy it on the day the old licence expired? Just wondering how it all works with their new rule of licences not being transferred when ownership changes. This rule sort of implies only the owner can purchase a licence.

 

 

My cynical view is who cares if the boat is not yours .... they have got your money - it is your problem, not theirs

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I never said that. I said I wanted to license somebody else's boat, if you go back and check. 

 

 

 

 

Mike, if you want to licence my boat and insure it too I'm happy for you to try providing I retain ownership. ?

[MtB]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

Mike, if you want to licence my boat and insure it too I'm happy for you to try providing I retain ownership. ?

 

Well this rather gets at what I’m wondering about.... 

 

Lets say CRT let me licence some random unlicenced boat.... eg yours.  I bet crt will change the registered owner to ME!! 

[LadyG]

I'm not sure about 'Registered Owner', it's more the 'Registered Person' ie he who has the boat Registered in their name in order to buy the Licence.

I would not be surprised if CRT had the Licencing Application so designed that they can keep track of the person who is the keeper. 

[Paul C]

If a licence is fraudulently obtained, is it valid?

[MtB]

57 minutes ago, Paul C said:

If a licence is fraudulently obtained, is it valid?

 

More to the point, if someone else has licensed my boat ad CRT have changed the licence holder to them, I'm now on the back foot trying to prove the boat is mine not theirs...

 

 

 

[Momac]

2 hours ago, Paul C said:

If a licence is fraudulently obtained, is it valid?

Nothing obtained by fraud / deception can be considered  valid.

[ditchcrawler]

Why does LadyG want to licence a boat?

[BilgePump]

I've just put a boat in the canal on a one month licence. It hadn't been on the canal system before (came from the coast) and it doesn't yet have a BSS. It's just a small cabin cruiser that would have been exempt until recently with no gas or electrics. They require insurance details and I ticked a box to say I was self declaring its safety for visiting CaRT waters. You can have up to 56 days in a year I think without the BSS on short term licences. I will be having it tested this month and then apply for a full year licence for it. The daft thing is that while it is on a short term licence number (but not yet licensed under the CaRT index number I've just been assigned and got plates for) I can't actually put it on the CaRT mooring that I have until it is long term licensed under its index number.

[waterdog]

On ‎30‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 09:31, haggis said:

When we bought kelpie (on the last day of February) we licensed it from the 1st of March (after obtaining insurance) and neither the insurance company nor C & RT asked if we owned the boat.  The previous owner hadn't notified anyone that the boat was sold. Actually technically we didn't own kelpie when we licensed it as we hadn't paid for it at that point.

 

haggis

We have done exactly the same today, we don't officially become owners until Friday but I insured the boat yesterday and licenced it today via the c&rt website. 

They even acknowledged the change of licence as the existing owner had a home mooring and we are going to CC.

 

No idea if the existing owner has contacted c&rt. but it appears that c&rt have done it all on my say so. I may be mistaken but it looks like anyone can licence a boat as long as you have the index number, insurance cert and a record of the bsc, Even the bsc details were auto filled on the website once I had entered the index number.

[MtB]

18 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Why does LadyG want to licence a boat?

 

Prolly doesn't, it's another in the stream of pointless questions she is well known for. 

 

 

[Momac]

On 30/04/2019 at 09:31, haggis said:

 neither the insurance company nor C & RT asked if we owned the boat.  

Why would they ask?

Lots of things in life rely on trust.  

Almost everything you buy in day to day life. For  example  when you buy a packet of sugar you trust there is sugar inside and not sand . The retailer trust your money is not forged. And insurance in particular very much relies on trust. 

C&RT would see the evidence of  insurance and trust it to be valid. 

Your insurance cover was of no value to you  until you owned the boat. But better to pay for a day too much insurance rather than risk it by paying for  a day to little.

[haggis]

I know. I was just trying to make the point that we weren't asked for proof that we owned the boat when we licensed it. I thought that was what the op was asking but who knows? 

 

Haggis