Airbnb boat?

[Beki Turner]

I can see that you really don't like the idea Richard but I think it is a shame that non-residential boats sit empty at least 4 nights a week when they could be contributing to their keep and freeing up income that probably would go straight back into the canal boat industry with owners using the money to maintain, upgrade and refurbish their boats.

 

Some marinas do allow business to be run from there too. Look at the Beds on a Boat deal with with MDL group and various small operators who have just one or two hire boats such as https://www.boutiquenarrowboats.co.uk/ 

 

Thanks for your interest.

 

[john6767]

I would have thought that the blocking issue for many marinas would be security.  They would not want to be giving access to their secure area to random people.  There are marinas that have moorings outside of the secure area, Mercia springs to mind, if you can find one who infrastructure would supports this I think there is the possibility they might me more interested in your proposition.

[Tumshie]

1 minute ago, john6767 said:

They would not want to be giving access to their secure area to random people.

Genuine question because I'm not sure what you mean: But whats the difference between a random person staying for two nights on the B&B boat and a random person coming in off the canal for two night? would the people off the canal not be allowed into the secure area or perhaps because they have the boat's licence in their name and are traceable but then where would that leave hire boaters bringing their hire boat in for a couple of nights? ?

 

 

 

 

[john6767]

Just now, Tumshie said:

Genuine question because I'm not sure what you mean: But whats the difference between a random person staying for two nights on the B&B boat and a random person coming in off the canal for two night? would the people off the canal not be allowed into the secure area or perhaps because they have the boat's licence in their name and are traceable but then where would that leave hire boaters bringing their hire boat in for a couple of nights? ?

 

 

 

 

In some places a short term mooring for a few days would be outside the secure area anyway.  But in general there is a trust the boaters are “ok”, but this is not boaters.  Would a marina allow a hire boat in for a mooring, I have no idea?

[RLWP]

26 minutes ago, Beki Turner said:

I can see that you really don't like the idea Richard

 

Would you prefer me to say 'ooh that's a good idea', then see you fail?

 

I'm in and out of a lot of marinas, some of them are plastered with notices about picking up dog poo, closing gates, changing gate codes and all kinds of stuff about small infringements. And that is aimed at their regular residential moorers. Can you imagine how they would react to an ever changing set of renters?

 

I haven't checked, it would be worth reading through some of the marina terms and conditions, I suspect they will include restrictions around running businesses from boats

 

I suspect you are actually just on the point of taking the next step - just buy a boat and enjoy it

 

Richard 

[Beki Turner]

Some hire boats are run out of marinas - so there must be some that do allow this. Some are more 'public' than others too with shops/ brokerage on site. I do have to trust Airbnb have done their security checks when I allow people to stay 'in my back garden' so I do understand the security risk and of course - marinas want to be sure that people aren't going to use the key code for nefarious purposes. It's a tricky one. I assumed that it would be an accepted way of running a boat as getting the license / insurance is relatively straightforward, in fact the insurance is easier than for my flat but the mooring is the sticking point. 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, RLWP said:

I haven't checked, it would be worth reading through some of the marina terms and conditions, I suspect they will include restrictions around running businesses from boats

 

My Marina :

 

3. Commercial Use  

3.1  Except with the previous written consent of BWML, the Owner shall not use any part of the Marina or Vessel for any commercial purposes including, but without limitation, hire of the Vessel, embarkation of charter parties, rental accommodation or advertising of any kind. Please note that if BWML does give its written consent for commercial use, such use will be subject to further terms and conditions and to the payment of additional fees, over and above those referred to in these General Conditions. Occasional use by family and friends for no payment reward will be at the discretion of local BWML management.  This type of use must receive BWML approval prior to the occupation so BWML are able to monitor the correct usage and notify Emergency Services of those present in such emergency situations.  BWML will not allow vessels to be utilised for multiple occupation i.e. the berthing recommendation by the manufacturer or to a maximum of 6 berths for larger vessels.  

3.2  Upon request, the Owner shall supply to BWML, full details in writing of all such use of the Vessel by friends or relations in accordance with Clause 3.1 above.  

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, Beki Turner said:

Some hire boats are run out of marinas - so there must be some that do allow this. Some are more 'public' than others too with shops/ brokerage on site. I do have to trust Airbnb have done their security checks when I allow people to stay 'in my back garden' so I do understand the security risk and of course - marinas want to be sure that people aren't going to use the key code for nefarious purposes. It's a tricky one. I assumed that it would be an accepted way of running a boat as getting the license / insurance is relatively straightforward, in fact the insurance is easier than for my flat but the mooring is the sticking point. 

I have a good friend who owns several hire fleets. i have worked/supervised hire fleets. The MAJOR difference between the usual renting out of property ( I rented my house out ) is that everybody who does say air bnb for a house knows how houses work, they generaly just do. Boats, however much you pay for one, however well maintained, however good the spec is are most certainly not property. Hire fleets have a bod on the end of a fone 24/7 for a very good reason, you will get umpteen calls on how does this work, why doesnt this work etc etc even if plugged in to mains someone will manage to trip it or worse, this is why most marinas will not want hassle for a few bob from a single boat owner like yourself. A few measly grand for your mooring is better obtained from an ordinary moorer who has more idea than a hirer.

[Beki Turner]

Thank you. I do understand why you have this and I'm not questioning that a marina can make this choice, I just wondered if there was any way that I could find a mooring where security checked people could stay on my boat without starting the engine and heading off down the canal - I would obviously expect to pay a premium for a 'commercial' mooring but it would seem impossible.

 

I would not expect the marina to answer any questions or take any responsibility and I would be on the end of the phone 24/7 as I need to be for the flat I let out. I leave full instructions with my flat and rarely get any questions but I would obviously meet personally anyone staying on my boat as I appreciate it's not a house.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Beki Turner

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Beki Turner said:

Thank you. I do understand why you have this and I'm not questioning that a marina can make this choice, I just wondered if there was any way that I could find a mooring where security checked people could stay on my boat without starting the engine and heading off down the canal - I would obviously expect to pay a premium for a 'commercial' mooring but it would seem impossible.

 

I would not expect the marina to answer any questions or take any responsibility and I would be on the end of the phone 24/7 as I need to be for the flat I let out. I leave full instructions with my flat and rarely get any questions but I would obviously meet personally anyone staying on my boat as I appreciate it's not a house.

Will you be on 24/7 call (to repair, not answer the telephone) to unblock the toilet, (boat toilets are nothing like domestic toilets) or would you expect your customers to use the marina facilities ?

 

As I have shown - it is possible to negotiate running a 'commercial enterprise' from a marina - maybe it is just that you will need to look further afield and keep your boat at a marina that allows you to run a business, rather than expecting your 'local' marina to adapt to what you want.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Beki Turner]

That is exactly why I am looking for somewhere within easy reach. I do know about boat toilets, unfortunately. My family owned a sea-going Catalac and I have been on holiday on a canal boat for many years. I would expect the customer to use the marina facilities in a total emergency as I would expect to use them myself for the same reason, however I would do my utmost to ensure the total emergency didn't happen.

 

Gosh - you're a supportive bunch aren't you?

 

I wasn't 'expecting' my local marina to do it - I was asking initially for positive suggestions as to where it may be possible. Instead I've been met with a barrage of reasons as to why it isn't possible... 

Edited April 28, 2019 by Beki Turner

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Beki Turner said:

Gosh - you're a supportive bunch aren't you?

Yes - very much so.

 

Would you rather we 'test you' and help you by making sure you have considered everything and learn from the pitfalls of others, or just say "great idea, no problem, just do it"?

[Beki Turner]

I have had very few positive suggestions as to where it may be possible, instead people have assumed I know nothing, have not done any research, have probably never been on a boat and that I think its connected to the sewage system...LOL   People are doing Airbnb with their boats so I just wanted to know how they achieved it - probably by going under the radar would seem to be the answer and that isn't how I would want to operate. I am trying to do it properly. 

[RLWP]

1 minute ago, Beki Turner said:

I have had very few positive suggestions as to where it may be possible, instead people have assumed I know nothing, have not done any research, have probably never been on a boat 

Because we know nothing about you, and that's what most people with wizard wheezes know when they ask questions here. You are unusual in that you have actually done some research first, and I thank you for that

 

'Doing it properly' isn't easy, as you are finding out

 

Richard

[Beki Turner]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

A couple of years ago someone applied for planning permission for a static boat rental on the towpath at Hebden Bridge. They had a letter of support from CRT and I think the permission was granted. But I don't think it has progressed any further.

Hi David - was this a residential mooring owned by CRT do you know? That sounds interesting although we would want to take the boat out ourselves so it wouldn't be totally static

[ditchcrawler]

12 minutes ago, Beki Turner said:

 

 

Gosh - you're a supportive bunch aren't you?

I think the biggest problem is that no one knows of a marina which allows it. Yes there are marinas with hire bases in them and no there is no law against it.

I think the your only hope would be to decide what your maximum radius of travel is and then visit each one and discuss your plans with the owner or manager. Finding the right person to talk to may be a problem and you end up with someone with no authority to make business decisions but says no.

[Beki Turner]

Thanks Richard - yes I have boats in my blood - as does my husband. He would sell up and live on a boat in a heartbeat but I am a gardener and I love my houses and gardens and I have retired horses, dogs, cats and hens so not possible (at the moment) We have been thinking about a boat for years but my husband works abroad for up to 7 months a year so it hasn't seemed sensible. He is now home a lot more but we wanted a way of making a decent boat work for a living (as we have to pay for the upkeep of retired horses, dogs, cats etc....) 

[Tumshie]

18 minutes ago, Beki Turner said:

Gosh - you're a supportive bunch aren't you?

Aren't we just -  At this rate you'd get better answers if you hopped in a kayak and paddled the length of the canal you want to be mooring on. 

 

If you can stick with the forum they do turn out to be a rather nice bunch, they are very knowledgeable but some of them aren't very good at introductions. ?

 

 

 

[FredDrift]

I'm sure Clifton Cruisers used to hire out 'static' narrowboats - floating holiday cottage holidays type of thing at their base on the North Oxford canal.  That they don't appear to do so now may suggest that there isn't a real market for it.  

 

If you look look at the current per week hire price of a narrowboat, hiring one to go nowhere makes little sense compared to hiring a cottage.  The cost of operating a boat for hire, whether static or cruising is probably not going to be hugely different.  

[RLWP]

12 minutes ago, Beki Turner said:

Thanks Richard - yes I have boats in my blood - as does my husband. He would sell up and live on a boat in a heartbeat but I am a gardener and I love my houses and gardens and I have retired horses, dogs, cats and hens so not possible (at the moment) We have been thinking about a boat for years but my husband works abroad for up to 7 months a year so it hasn't seemed sensible. He is now home a lot more but we wanted a way of making a decent boat work for a living (as we have to pay for the upkeep of retired horses, dogs, cats etc....) 

 

This is your real problem then, matching owning (and using) a boat to your current way of life. That's a very common problem that many people here can identify with, and many have solved in different ways

 

Richard

[dor]

I’m intrigued by the financial aspects. You say you want a decent boat, say 50ft plus-ish.  So we are looking at around £50K or more. Then a marina - forget commercial aspects - say £3K+.  Now  maintenance costs, realistically another £3K+.  Occupancy?  Maybe 60 or 70 nights a year at what? £100 a night?

So £6,000+ a year, plus capital cost and depreciation of the boat, in return for maybe £6000 gross income.  Then what about your time?

I think my figures are quite modest, and don’t include what the marina might want for their cut.

Is this really a realistic model?

 

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, dor said:

I’m intrigued by the financial aspects. [...] Is this really a realistic model?

The OP did say that it's not a strictly business proposal.  It's just one possible way to offset some of the costs of boating, so if you buy the boat but get enough guests to pay for the mooring and the licence you end up with a "cheap-to-keep" boat for your own use.

 

 

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Beki Turner said:

Thank you. I do understand why you have this and I'm not questioning that a marina can make this choice, I just wondered if there was any way that I could find a mooring where security checked people could stay on my boat without starting the engine and heading off down the canal - I would obviously expect to pay a premium for a 'commercial' mooring but it would seem impossible.

 

I would not expect the marina to answer any questions or take any responsibility and I would be on the end of the phone 24/7 as I need to be for the flat I let out. I leave full instructions with my flat and rarely get any questions but I would obviously meet personally anyone staying on my boat as I appreciate it's not a house.

Don't think that Air bnb people are security checked,  they just have to be willing to pay commision to AirBnB. I've booked twice there's no security check, if you were a party animal and wrecked the place, you'd probably have to get a pal to book the next time. You don't get a great profit out of it compared to normal B and B direct booking.

Edited April 28, 2019 by LadyG

[Tumshie]

8 minutes ago, dor said:

Maybe 60 or 70 nights a year at what? £100 a night?

I think the 60/70 nights are probbly a bit low even if just letting for the 6/7 warmer months. Plus if she was letting per person per night like a B&B would rather than just by the night/week like a hire boat company would, then your cost PPPN goes up quite a bit, and you can add again for the novelty factor for being on a boat. So it kinda depends what the location going rate is and if there are any attractions that people would want to attend where a higher premium price could be charged. 

 

She is already running a successful AirB&B Business, come across as very competent, and has stated that this doesn't have to be profitable in the same way that a stand alone business would it just has to cover it's own costs and help a bit towards the boats running costs.  

 

 

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Don't think that Air bnb people are security checked,

I think she's probbly a bit sick of everybody questioning her judgment by now. She's been doing AirB&B at her own home for a while now so must be aware if some thing that she feel's is relevant. 

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

7 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

I think she's [probably] a bit sick of everybody questioning her [judgement] by now. She's been doing AirB&B at her own home for a while now so must be aware if some thing that she [feels] is relevant. 

If she can't handle the usual grumpies on Canalworld forums, she probably wouldn't still be letting her own property out via AirBnB!

 

She quite sensibly asked in advance rather than just went for it - but the OP states that she has been knocked back by the first few marinas she tried, which suggests to me that the marinas don't like the idea, even if you pay them more.  Most of the grumpies only read the thread title and not the detail ...