Jump to content

Beta JD3 problems


Featured Posts

I've just had a second occurrence of a starting problem on my otherwise sweetly running JD3. 

 

Turn the key, engine turns over for half a second then stops dead with a loud clattering (starter cog jumping?) until I let go, sharpish, of the key. Leave it for a minute, turns over ok, though takes a good few goes to start now, normally it starts within a couple of seconds at any temperature, no spluttering or trying hard at all.

 

Both times I've had a lot of rain and boat movement (bad weather) the preceding 24 hours....could this be rain going down the stack and collecting in an open cylinder, stopping the engine abruptly on a compression stroke?

 

I've got a hoop cover on it, wonder if I need a flap. Or any other suggestions as to the problem? 

 

Have tested diesel for water and emptied filter trap, nothing in there.

 

Cheers

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clattering is the starter stalled due to water in the cylinder/s and  drawing so much current that the solenoid drops out and bangs back in again. It eventually forces the water through the ring gaps into the sump until the crank can turn over, a really bad way to treat an engine. You can bend a rod, wreck an injector, piston or head.

DO NOT CARRY ON DOING THIS!

You will eventually need at least a new starter, a battery and if you are really unlucky a new engine. Get a can on the stack, the hoop just directs more water in than nothing on at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take the pencil injectors out and leave it for a while then turn it over.(disconnect wire from fuel pump to stop any fuel flow) If you get water shooting out of any of the injector holes you have water in the bores. could be

Water from exhaust (unlikely if covered)

Head Gasket

Pin hole in cylinder liner -you must use  a bubble formation reducing (SCR) antifreeze in these engines

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Clattering is the starter stalled due to water in the cylinder/s and  drawing so much current that the solenoid drops out and bangs back in again. It eventually forces the water through the ring gaps into the sump until the crank can turn over, a really bad way to treat an engine. You can bend a rod, wreck an injector, piston or head.

DO NOT CARRY ON DOING THIS!

You will eventually need at least a new starter, a battery and if you are really unlucky a new engine. Get a can on the stack, the hoop just directs more water in than nothing on at all.

Thanks - no following issues so far (fingers crossed) but I did think if it was this it'd be really unfriendly to pretty much all of the engine. It's only happened once before, wasn't sure if it was starter problems, then it happened again after the biblical rain from Hannah . It's got a can on for now, will sort out a flap for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

Take the pencil injectors out and leave it for a while then turn it over.(disconnect wire from fuel pump to stop any fuel flow) If you get water shooting out of any of the injector holes you have water in the bores. could be

Water from exhaust (unlikely if covered)

Head Gasket

Pin hole in cylinder liner -you must use  a bubble formation reducing (SCR) antifreeze in these engines

I'm not seeing any cross-contamination of oil/coolant, or noticeably losing any , barely uses oil, exhaust isn't smoking, it does seem to be running very well other than these 2 times, (and once started, fine after) and both have been after some serious downpours. I see loads of stacks with hoop tops, is this a common problem, or does everyone always cap the stack after running?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 The cutter on the engine chimney is to deflect the blast so you don't get a roof full of spiders etc. in bridgeholes and tunnels. It is carp as a rain protector.  Always cap the exhaust if it is going to rain heavily.  Remember to secure the cap to a piece of chain, or sooner or later you will fire it overboard after starting without removing it!   Calor cylinder valve caps are "traditional", if you can find one.

 

N

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

I bet the ends of the hoop are inside the pipe and all water that gets on the hoop is directed down the stack.  An old can is cheaper than a new motor.

It's outside, but there's plenty of scope for other ingress.

 

All canned up now and hopefully no damage done.

 

Thanks all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As said, hydraulic lock can wreck an engine. I suspect JD3 is particularly vulnerable as its such an enthusiastic starter, good bang on one or two cylinders then the hydraulic lock on the third could be a real disaster.

Silencer should hold back a bit of water so you must have let a lot get in.

Our non traditional solution (from previous owners) is a "tractor top". I take this off when cruising as it directs some exhaust towards the steerer, but otherwise its always on. Big advantage is that when starting engine for battery charging there is no need to go outside in the cold and wet.

 

..............Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, dmr said:

As said, hydraulic lock can wreck an engine. I suspect JD3 is particularly vulnerable as its such an enthusiastic starter, good bang on one or two cylinders then the hydraulic lock on the third could be a real disaster.

Silencer should hold back a bit of water so you must have let a lot get in.

Our non traditional solution (from previous owners) is a "tractor top". I take this off when cruising as it directs some exhaust towards the steerer, but otherwise its always on. Big advantage is that when starting engine for battery charging there is no need to go outside in the cold and wet.

 

..............Dave

Yes, I'm hoping there's no damage - I've just ran it for an hour and gave it full revs in gear, stopped and started again, seems fine. I think the rods etc on the base engine are pretty tough by all accounts, though don't intend to test them on this too often. 

 

My silencer is a DIY gas bottle job to give it a more traditional pop (not my doing, I like the sound of tractors lol) and think it just goes straight down/through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, barmyfluid said:

Yes, I'm hoping there's no damage - I've just ran it for an hour and gave it full revs in gear, stopped and started again, seems fine. I think the rods etc on the base engine are pretty tough by all accounts, though don't intend to test them on this too often. 

 

My silencer is a DIY gas bottle job to give it a more traditional pop (not my doing, I like the sound of tractors lol) and think it just goes straight down/through.

That could well explain how the water got through so easily.

Does it sound good? Mine is a bit over-silenced and I would like to do a better exhaust one day.  I have heard a Lister with a gas bottle exhaust, it was much too loud when working hard but did sound rather good.

 

The John Deere does have a reputation as a very strong engine.

 

..............Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, dmr said:

That could well explain how the water got through so easily.

Does it sound good? Mine is a bit over-silenced and I would like to do a better exhaust one day.  I have heard a Lister with a gas bottle exhaust, it was much too loud when working hard but did sound rather good.

 

The John Deere does have a reputation as a very strong engine.

 

..............Dave

I think it sounds nice and I get a lot of compliments as I'm passing, have had a couple get instantly sniffy when they find out it's a Beta though!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, barmyfluid said:

I think it sounds nice and I get a lot of compliments as I'm passing, have had a couple get instantly sniffy when they find out it's a Beta though!

I have a half baked plan to get rid of the brass Beta rocker box cover and make something to look like three separate covers, and paint it green, that would confuse them. When asked I would say its some sort of European industrial engine....well it is made in France :)

 

............Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, dmr said:

I have a half baked plan to get rid of the brass Beta rocker box cover and make something to look like three separate covers, and paint it green, that would confuse them. When asked I would say its some sort of European industrial engine....well it is made in France :)

 

............Dave

I think there's a bit of a 'Crying game' dynamic going on, the first bloke said 'Oh, is that a Gardner?' and seemed genuinely offended to find a Septic-via-Frenchy lump in the engine room.

 

Priceless look on his face.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, barmyfluid said:

I think there's a bit of a 'Crying game' dynamic going on, the first bloke said 'Oh, is that a Gardner?' and seemed genuinely offended to find a Septic-via-Frenchy lump in the engine room.

 

Priceless look on his face.

 

People usually say "is that a Lister". At first I thought they were knowledgeable about engine sounds, the JD3 is quite harsh and so are the air-cooled Listers.

However when I've been out with mtb with his Kelvins I note that people still say "is that a Lister" :)

 

...............Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, dmr said:

As said, hydraulic lock can wreck an engine. I suspect JD3 is particularly vulnerable as its such an enthusiastic starter, good bang on one or two cylinders then the hydraulic lock on the third could be a real disaster.

Silencer should hold back a bit of water so you must have let a lot get in.

Our non traditional solution (from previous owners) is a "tractor top". I take this off when cruising as it directs some exhaust towards the steerer, but otherwise its always on. Big advantage is that when starting engine for battery charging there is no need to go outside in the cold and wet.

 

..............Dave

like this? 3.75", comes in 3" & 43" too. Think I'll get myself one.

https://www.malpasonline.co.uk/itm/Exhaust-Weather-Caps/Weather-Cap-Counter-Balanced-3-3-4-952mm/19783

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Markinaboat said:

like this? 3.75", comes in 3" & 43" too. Think I'll get myself one.

https://www.malpasonline.co.uk/itm/Exhaust-Weather-Caps/Weather-Cap-Counter-Balanced-3-3-4-952mm/19783

Yes, thats the sort of thing. That one is maybe not the most pleasing design but should do the job. I think I would paint the nuts black or put brass ones on.

Do the pinch bolts up just tight enough so that its a snug fit on the exhaust stack but still loose enough to wiggle it off by hand. Remove when cruising as otherwise some exhaust comes out sideways rather than going straight up, so depending upon wind you end up breathing a lot in which is not a good thing.

 

Malpas do some good stuff, including the compatible oil filter with anti-drainback valve.

 

...............Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There seems to be a good selection on eBay, all sizes and styles - I tend to go there and to Amazon as first ports of call as they often do click and collect to Morrisons, Sainsburys, Argos etc, I don't have a land address.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1311.R8.TR11.TRC2.A0.H0.Xrain+cap+.TRS0&_nkw=exhaust+rain+cap&_sacat=0

 

I have an old camping pan I hang underneath the stern hatch on my trad to catch the rain that gets in from the lift-up hoop, never had more than a few mils in there last 4 months and plenty of wet, emptied this morning after Hannah, was about 2 pints! I think if you get the 'wrong sort of rain' it can really build up, learned my lesson about the exhaust stack for sure.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.