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Have I missed a trick


Mike Adams

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On a recent cruise up the Oxford ,Coventry and T and M canals we  stopped at quite a few 14 day moorings (usually piled with rings and deep) and most were full but some had a gap for our smallish boat. The thing I have noticed is that most of the boats were empty, locked up when we arrived and the same when we left so they didn't appear lived on. Have people now decided in bulk not to have a permanent mooring and are using the continuous cruising model just moving the boat a little distance every 14 days near to where they ilive? I can see why they might in the light of the numbers of people living on boats and the positive encouragement of CaRT on their website. It does seem to be a receipe for complete chaos and the eventual loss of these 14 day moorings going to 48 hours or something.

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1 hour ago, Mike Adams said:

On a recent cruise up the Oxford ,Coventry and T and M canals we  stopped at quite a few 14 day moorings (usually piled with rings and deep) and most were full but some had a gap for our smallish boat. The thing I have noticed is that most of the boats were empty, locked up when we arrived and the same when we left so they didn't appear lived on. Have people now decided in bulk not to have a permanent mooring and are using the continuous cruising model just moving the boat a little distance every 14 days near to where they ilive? I can see why they might in the light of the numbers of people living on boats and the positive encouragement of CaRT on their website. It does seem to be a receipe for complete chaos and the eventual loss of these 14 day moorings going to 48 hours or something.

I don't know if it's becoming a trend, but back in our leisure boating days we were 'dumpers'. Nothing to do with 'the number of people living on boats' etc., though: we just didn't like the idea of having our cruising range drastically restricted by the need to begin and end every week or weekend's cruise at the same spot. We used to just enjoy a shortish cruise every week or two between two towns with handy train stations.

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18 minutes ago, magictime said:

I don't know if it's becoming a trend, but back in our leisure boating days we were 'dumpers'. Nothing to do with 'the number of people living on boats' etc., though: we just didn't like the idea of having our cruising range drastically restricted by the need to begin and end every week or weekend's cruise at the same spot. We used to just enjoy a shortish cruise every week or two between two towns with handy train stations.

People have cruised the whole system like that, going home Sunday night and returning Friday after work to do another couple of days cruising

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2 hours ago, Mike Adams said:

On a recent cruise up the Oxford ,Coventry and T and M canals we  stopped at quite a few 14 day moorings (usually piled with rings and deep) and most were full but some had a gap for our smallish boat. The thing I have noticed is that most of the boats were empty, locked up when we arrived and the same when we left so they didn't appear lived on. Have people now decided in bulk not to have a permanent mooring and are using the continuous cruising model just moving the boat a little distance every 14 days near to where they ilive? I can see why they might in the light of the numbers of people living on boats and the positive encouragement of CaRT on their website. It does seem to be a receipe for complete chaos and the eventual loss of these 14 day moorings going to 48 hours or something.

 

I'm not sure I understand your point.

 

Perhaps it's just the way I'm reading it, but you seem to be saying that people leaving boats uninhabited on 14 day moorings has become a problem because of too many liveaboards? Isn't there a contradiction?

 

Edit: Or are you suggesting that the increasing number of liveaboards is somehow forcing others to abandon their boats on 14 day moorings?

 

Either way I don't understand.

Edited by blackrose
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If they are complying with the rules and not blocking moorings then I see nothing wrong with this at all. 

26 minutes ago, magictime said:

: we just didn't like the idea of having our cruising range drastically restricted by the need to begin and end every week or weekend's cruise at the same spot. 

Makes absolute sense to me, making the most of your leisure time in a way that you enjoy without inconveniencing anyone else, nowt wrong with that. 

 

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5 minutes ago, reg said:

If they are complying with the rules and not blocking moorings then I see nothing wrong with this at all. 

Makes absolute sense to me, making the most of your leisure time in a way that you enjoy without inconveniencing anyone else, nowt wrong with that. 

 

I agree.

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36 minutes ago, magictime said:

I don't know if it's becoming a trend, but back in our leisure boating days we were 'dumpers'. Nothing to do with 'the number of people living on boats' etc., though: we just didn't like the idea of having our cruising range drastically restricted by the need to begin and end every week or weekend's cruise at the same spot. We used to just enjoy a shortish cruise every week or two between two towns with handy train stations.

That's ok when, as in your case, you want to cruise to different places, but often I see the same boats dumped between 2 or 3 local VMs purely to avoid mooring fees (and I know this because the owners have told me!). 

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17 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I'm not sure I understand your point.

 

Perhaps it's just the way I'm reading it, but you seem to be saying that people leaving boats uninhabited on 14 day moorings has become a problem because of too many liveaboards? Isn't there a contradiction?

 

Edit: Or are you suggesting that the increasing number of liveaboards is somehow forcing others to abandon their boats on 14 day moorings?

 

Either way I don't understand.

I think it's fairly plain that the OP is saying that boats dumped on 14 day moorings, clogging them up so those moving about can't use them, are not being lived on, thereby implying that it would be fine if they were genuine liveaboards continuously cruising. Nowt to do with liveaboards. I admit to getting a bit narked myself when the prime mooring spots are taken by what is obviously an abandoned boat, waiting to be collected when the owner can be bothered to shift it another mile or two. And seeing as how most of them are still there three weeks later on my way past again, I think the concept of the dedicated fortnightly CCer is a myth. 

What amazes me, though, is how someone can abandon such a huge investment with so little security. 

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19 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I think it's fairly plain that the OP is saying that boats dumped on 14 day moorings, clogging them up so those moving about can't use them, are not being lived on, thereby implying that it would be fine if they were genuine liveaboards continuously cruising. Nowt to do with liveaboards. I admit to getting a bit narked myself when the prime mooring spots are taken by what is obviously an abandoned boat, waiting to be collected when the owner can be bothered to shift it another mile or two. And seeing as how most of them are still there three weeks later on my way past again, I think the concept of the dedicated fortnightly CCer is a myth. 

What amazes me, though, is how someone can abandon such a huge investment with so little security. 

 

 

Here on the K&A I'd say the CCers are roughly 50/50 liveaboards/dumpers, both moving once a fortnight in a fairly disciplined way. This leads to annoyance to the liveaboards though as stated, to find the better mooring spots often being hogged for a fortnight at a time by boats that are not being used on a daily basis. 

 

The root problem is how CRT (and BW to a limited extent) ramped up the prices of their on-line moorings to match those in marinas. Ten years ago an unserviced on-line mooring could be had for £1k. Now the same mooring is £3.5k around here so there are NO cheap mooring options. Hence the headlong rush to CCing, whether as liveaboards or dumpers.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

People have cruised the whole system like that, going home Sunday night and returning Friday after work to do another couple of days cruising

 

Even though we have an end of garden mooring, we do this to extend our cruising range when family commitments interfere with having an uninteruppted long cruise.

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Here on the K&A I'd say the CCers are roughly 50/50 liveaboards/dumpers, both moving once a fortnight in a fairly disciplined way. This leads to annoyance to the liveaboards though as stated, to find the better mooring spots often being hogged for a fortnight at a time by boats that are not being used on a daily basis. 

 

The root problem is how CRT (and BW to a limited extent) ramped up the prices of their on-line moorings to match those in marinas. Ten years ago an unserviced on-line mooring could be had for £1k. Now the same mooring is £3.5k around here so there are NO cheap mooring options. Hence the headlong rush to CCing, whether as liveaboards or dumpers.

 

 

 

 

 

Surely the "ramping up of prices to match marinas" is led by market forces through the BW/CRT mooring auction system.

 

For example I have an end of garden mooring whose price is determined by being valued at 50% of the nearest online CRT mooring without facities. In my case Tuttle Hill, which is less than half of local marina prices, because not many people want to moor there.

 

It is the popularity of the K&A which is driving up mooring prices there with CRT taking advantage of that, and why not?

 

Edited by cuthound
Clarification
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6 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Surely the "ramping up of prices to match marinas" is led by market forces through the BW/CRT mooring auction system.

C&RT's Mooring Price Policy :

 

It is our policy, set at Board level, to set prices which reflect market rates and to compete fairly with private operators. The Trust has neither powers nor duty to provide subsidised moorings. If you feel that the price decision made for your mooring site is unjustified having read this report, we ask that you write to the Head of Direct Managed Moorings explaining why you think it is the case. Please explain the reasoning for your challenge including evidence such as price and descriptions of nearby privately operated mooring sites. We will not amend the price without this evidence. We will consider your representation and respond in writing within two working weeks. If you are not satisfied with the response, you may request that the matter is dealt with through our formal complaints procedure.

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16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

C&RT's Mooring Price Policy :

 

It is our policy, set at Board level, to set prices which reflect market rates and to compete fairly with private operators. The Trust has neither powers nor duty to provide subsidised moorings. If you feel that the price decision made for your mooring site is unjustified having read this report, we ask that you write to the Head of Direct Managed Moorings explaining why you think it is the case. Please explain the reasoning for your challenge including evidence such as price and descriptions of nearby privately operated mooring sites. We will not amend the price without this evidence. We will consider your representation and respond in writing within two working weeks. If you are not satisfied with the response, you may request that the matter is dealt with through our formal complaints procedure.

 

Yes, but that is a fairly recent policy. What caused the ramping up from cheap online moorings to those close to marina prices was their moorings auction policy. Without the intervening moorings auction policy the three fold increase in mooring fees would have been seen as unacceptable.

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2 hours ago, blackrose said:

I agree.

Conversely if they aren't following the rules and are blocking moorings then I too get a bit narked. However I am aware that I am not always aware of another person's circumstances and possible arrangements. 

Heard some sarky comments from outside my boat when I had to stay put, by agreement, to receive dental treatment over a 3 week period. Bless them in their ignorance of the facts. 

Edited by reg
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59 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Yes, but that is a fairly recent policy.

I suppose so, its 7 years 'old', so pretty recent in the great scheme of inland waterways things.

 

It was re-stated in this report :

 

RE-PRICING OF 12 MONTH MOORING PERMITS 2015 MARKET AREA REPORT FOR HUMBER TO THE WASH

 

Where they used their 'policy' to justify 'price-matching' with other mooring providers in Nottinghamshire, Lincolnshire, Humber.

 

We have identified the following privately operated mooring sites as being the most relevant to the CRT sites for price comparison purposes
Boston Marina
Clayworth RWBC
Retford Mariners
Gunthorpe Marina
Kings Marina
Newark Marina
Burton Waters Marina
Lincoln Marina
Lincoln Boat Club
Brayford Pool
Farndon Harbour Marina
Chapel Hill
Belle Isle Marine
Boston Motor Yacht Club
Russell Hunt (Kingfisher Marina)

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2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

The root problem is how CRT (and BW to a limited extent) ramped up the prices of their on-line moorings to match those in marinas. Ten years ago an unserviced on-line mooring could be had for £1k. Now the same mooring is £3.5k around here so there are NO cheap mooring options. Hence the headlong rush to CCing, whether as liveaboards or dumpers.

  

I agree with this. There were lots of waterside moorings that were empty as I passed along this route. Maybe they are trying to clear them out for some reason. I would also prefer a bankside mooring to a marina but I don't know how CaRT can justify these marina  prices to tie up to the towpath with no facilities unless they are assuming they are in fact 'residential' something marinas might not accept.

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5 hours ago, cuthound said:

I have an end of garden mooring whose price is determined by being valued at 50% of the nearest online CRT mooring without facities. In my case Tuttle Hill

Do you live in one of those new builds off Currane Rd?

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31 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I wonder how much it (visitor mooring) has to do with the local canal society. 

For instance so much of the shroppie is 48hr. 

Why?

Lots of rural places but only 48hr?

  

Supply and demand? The Shroppie has a shelf, so a lot of the time its difficult to moor other than at prepared areas. Much like a river.

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I live aboard and continuous cruise and if I leave my boat for a few days, to anyone passing by or mooring up close to me, it may look like I'm doing exactly as you described. 

Edited by Rumsky
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