Really need advice on internal rust treatment

[Fraser W]

Hi all

i have just bought my first boat and unfortunately where rainwater has got into the boat the inside under the floor has rusted. The hull is metal and roof and walls are wooden.

could anyone advise me the best way to treat this rust.

it is a project but also I will be living on this boat so I have 1/2 months to get her ready. I have found one small area the size of a 50p that needs welding but I have a welder ready to go. My issue is the best way to treat the rust as there are lots of old forums but nothing recent with current products.

i have started to wire brush the loose flakes off as my starting point.

i hope someone can advise me

thank you

 

[Murflynn]

6 hours ago, Fraser W said:

Hi all

i have just bought my first boat and unfortunately where rainwater has got into the boat the inside under the floor has rusted. The hull is metal and roof and walls are wooden.

could anyone advise me the best way to treat this rust.

it is a project but also I will be living on this boat so I have 1/2 months to get her ready. I have found one small area the size of a 50p that needs welding but I have a welder ready to go. My issue is the best way to treat the rust as there are lots of old forums but nothing recent with current products.

i have started to wire brush the loose flakes off as my starting point.

i hope someone can advise me

thank you

 

there are dozens of threads dealing with this problem, some very recent.   try the search function.

[Mike Adams]

Did you have a survey? If not I would work out how thick the hull is before doing anything else. It could be anything between surface rust and terminal. You can buy an ultrasonic thickness gauge from ebay for about £50. Scan the whole hull from inside. Sounds like an old boat if it has a wood top.

[Richard10002]

I dealt with a very rusty engine bay during summer last year. Got lots of help here so worth looking for the thread. If I can find it I'll post a link. Here you go... although the picture I'm seeing isn't my engine hole?

 

 

 

[Bee]

Generally speaking if its dry and painted it won't rust - and if it does it won't be too bad. Fix the leak from the topsides, dry it all out, slap on a bit of vactan or something then some sort of paint and that's a pretty good start.

[Fraser W]

Thank you everyone

i didn’t have a survey due to funds available. I grant this is risky but the boat does not have an engine so will be a static houseboat. A few people have had a look over it and said that has rusted internally only where the rain water has been sat for a while. I am going to the boat tomorrow to finish scraping away and tidy up the rest of internal hull so would waxoyl be a good treatment followed by red oxide be a good way to treat? Thank you all again

[Fraser W]

[Richard10002]

In the third photo, which is the most zoomed in, there seem to be some holes through the hull, (the very bright bits), or are they photographic anomalies?

[Gordon M]

Hi I know you said Funds are tight ,But either get a surveyor to carry out a Hull ultrasonic check or has previously been mentioned buy your own tester and carry out your own hull thickness checks .  If your Hull is OK , wire brush all loose rust off and apply a rust treatment [I've used Fertan in the past and been happy with the results ],After treatment either paint in red oxide or use another treatment such as waxoyl .

[Fraser W]

6 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

In the third photo, which is the most zoomed in, there seem to be some holes through the hull, (the very bright bits), or are they photographic anomalies?

Hi richard

thats the small rust hole I mentioned previously which I have a welder who is going to fix that

[Fraser W]

4 minutes ago, Gordon M said:

Hi I know you said Funds are tight ,But either get a surveyor to carry out a Hull ultrasonic check or has previously been mentioned buy your own tester and carry out your own hull thickness checks .  If your Hull is OK , wire brush all loose rust off and apply a rust treatment [I've used Fertan in the past and been happy with the results ],After treatment either paint in red oxide or use another treatment such as waxoyl .

Hi gordon

ok I will do this, I did seek advice from local experts but they said as it is not a canal boat the same rules don’t apply with thickness in the hull this is why I’m stumped as they said they would not treat the same if they inspected it so this is why I’m thinking if I got welder to fix small hole then I guess I was thinking if I treated internal rust what I was going to do is get welder to weld new plates in that section to help reinforce it after I treated the rust.....if that makes any sense ha ha sorry first time boat owner here trying to learn terminology ?

[Gordon M]

Hi If I remember some small springers were made with 3mm steel hulls , If your below that figure after carrying out your ultrasonic survey you would have to wey up the cost of overplating your boat [those holes in your pictures don't look healthy] .

[matty40s]

16 minutes ago, Fraser W said:

Hi richard

thats the small rust hole I mentioned previously which I have a welder who is going to fix that

You have bought what could also be termed a colander, in photos 2 and 3 there are areas of serious concern never mind the actual holes.

The one good thing about photo1 is that it shows that the water hasn't got a hole to escape out of ...yet at that end.

Is it an old lifeboat, is it steel or iron??

I think you need to attack the rust pretty aggressively and expect to find more holes, be prepared for overplating...

Don't be afraid to bang the rust with a hammer, that is the only way to get steel delamination separated effectively.

You need to make sure that you only have to pay the welder once, so make sure that all the vulnerable areas are revealed.

Good luck.

 

[TheBiscuits]

Waxoyl is about the worst coating you can put inside your boat hull.  It will hold water between itself and the steel and allow oxygen through, causing worse rust.

 

It is great stuff underneath a vehicle where the water drops out and the air helps dry the chassis, but you might be better off leaving it than Waxoyling it.

 

Dry it out, grind off the loose stuff, leaving some rust behind and cover it in Vactan. 

 

Fertan is good, but you need to rinse off the residue so you will end up with a wet bilge again!

 

If you want to overpaint the Vactan, feel free, but do NOT paint it in primer, as that will hold water too.

 

Aldi sell a straight-to-rust metal paint for a fiver a tin if you are on a tight budget.  It works well, but takes about 16 hours to dry ...

 

ETA: As Matty says, make sure you have some steel before worrying about paint!

Edited April 26, 2019 by TheBiscuits

[Fraser W]

12 minutes ago, matty40s said:

You have bought what could also be termed a colander, in photos 2 and 3 there are areas of serious concern never mind the actual holes.

The one good thing about photo1 is that it shows that the water hasn't got a hole to escape out of ...yet at that end.

Is it an old lifeboat, is it steel or iron??

I think you need to attack the rust pretty aggressively and expect to find more holes, be prepared for overplating...

Don't be afraid to bang the rust with a hammer, that is the only way to get steel delamination separated effectively.

You need to make sure that you only have to pay the welder once, so make sure that all the vulnerable areas are revealed.

Good luck.

 

Hey

so I have gone around banging with a hammer and as I said this is only hole that appeared and lucky for me welder is family friend and I would like to say steel hull

22 minutes ago, Gordon M said:

Hi If I remember some small springers were made with 3mm steel hulls , If your below that figure after carrying out your ultrasonic survey you would have to wey up the cost of overplating your boat [those holes in your pictures don't look healthy] .

Ok I may check this for my own comfort but as welder is family friend I may get him

 

9 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Waxoyl is about the worst coating you can put inside your boat hull.  It will hold water between itself and the steel and allow oxygen through, causing worse rust.

 

It is great stuff underneath a vehicle where the water drops out and the air helps dry the chassis, but you might be better off leaving it than Waxoyling it.

 

Dry it out, grind off the loose stuff, leaving some rust behind and cover it in Vactan. 

 

Fertan is good, but you need to rinse off the residue so you will end up with a wet bilge again!

 

If you want to overpaint the Vactan, feel free, but do NOT paint it in primer, as that will hold water too.

 

Aldi sell a straight-to-rust metal paint for a fiver a tin if you are on a tight budget.  It works well, but takes about 16 hours to dry ...

 

ETA: As Matty says, make sure you have some steel before worrying about paint!

Ok again great advice thank you! Ok I will look for the Aldi one, I hate having to cost cut but due to bad health a not being able to work I am having to give up my home and sell everything I own to fund this and with a 2k max budget I’m trying my best to make this work for me and my daughters (who are very excited about boat life ?)

[ditchcrawler]

12 minutes ago, Fraser W said:

Hey

so I have gone around banging with a hammer and as I said this is only hole that appeared and lucky for me welder is family friend and I would like to say steel hull

Ok I may check this for my own comfort but as welder is family friend I may get him

 

Ok again great advice thank you! Ok I will look for the Aldi one, I hate having to cost cut but due to bad health a not being able to work I am having to give up my home and sell everything I own to fund this and with a 2k max budget I’m trying my best to make this work for me and my daughters (who are very excited about boat life ?)

That to me looks as its already been overplated.  

 

[Mike Adams]

Looks like a Dutch steel cruiser from the 60's or 70's with some sections already overplated. Probably constructed of 4mm steel originally with some overplating already looking at the outside pics. As has been said much better to go over it with a big hammer now from the outside while it is out of the water. Surveyors used to do this to my boats years ago and it is suprising how soon you can tell if there is a problem by the sound. If it sounds 'dead' rather than a nice ring it indicates a problem and it will also separate the scale from the metal. Much better to find out now than later. You could also drill some small holes to check the thickness and get the welder to plug them up when he comes. Good luck with your project.

[Fraser W]

11 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

Looks like a Dutch steel cruiser from the 60's or 70's with some sections already overplated. Probably constructed of 4mm steel originally with some overplating already looking at the outside pics. As has been said much better to go over it with a big hammer now from the outside while it is out of the water. Surveyors used to do this to my boats years ago and it is suprising how soon you can tell if there is a problem by the sound. If it sounds 'dead' rather than a nice ring it indicates a problem and it will also separate the scale from the metal. Much better to find out now than later. You could also drill some small holes to check the thickness and get the welder to plug them up when he comes. Good luck with your project.

When I was banging with hammer the other day it did have a nicer ring to it that a dead ring so I’m hoping it may not be too bad. I will re check again tomorrow but again thank you for your advice I will let you know how I get on ?

[Murflynn]

is that what they call a 'dead ringer' .....................  

[Bee]

The corrosion inside is actually quite bad. If you have health, work and housing problems then you deserve a bit of luck but I'm not sure you have got much luck with this boat.  Full marks for trying but I fear this boat will need overplating,.  You may need to rethink things a bit, a month or two will probably not be long enough to fix this project and you will really need an outboard motor at least as to satisfy the authorities you will probably need to 'continuously cruise' and not just permanently moor in one place. Sorry I can't be more encouraging but facts are facts and you are between a rock and a hard place. Good luck anyway.

[Fraser W]

25 minutes ago, Bee said:

The corrosion inside is actually quite bad. If you have health, work and housing problems then you deserve a bit of luck but I'm not sure you have got much luck with this boat.  Full marks for trying but I fear this boat will need overplating,.  You may need to rethink things a bit, a month or two will probably not be long enough to fix this project and you will really need an outboard motor at least as to satisfy the authorities you will probably need to 'continuously cruise' and not just permanently moor in one place. Sorry I can't be more encouraging but facts are facts and you are between a rock and a hard place. Good luck anyway.

Thank you for honesty

as I say my welder is family friend so if it needs plateing then so be it, he is happy to do that for me as my situation is very difficult. My brother has a spare outboard if they want me to attach it that can be done thanks again

12 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Waxoyl is about the worst coating you can put inside your boat hull.  It will hold water between itself and the steel and allow oxygen through, causing worse rust.

 

It is great stuff underneath a vehicle where the water drops out and the air helps dry the chassis, but you might be better off leaving it than Waxoyling it.

 

Dry it out, grind off the loose stuff, leaving some rust behind and cover it in Vactan. 

 

Fertan is good, but you need to rinse off the residue so you will end up with a wet bilge again!

 

If you want to overpaint the Vactan, feel free, but do NOT paint it in primer, as that will hold water too.

 

Aldi sell a straight-to-rust metal paint for a fiver a tin if you are on a tight budget.  It works well, but takes about 16 hours to dry ...

 

ETA: As Matty says, make sure you have some steel before worrying about paint!

Will this be good to use?

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Fraser W said:

Will this be good to use?

What ever you use to 'convert / seal' the rust you must make sure that you have got rid of every bit of loose and flaking rust.

If you paint onto the top of a flake of rust, the paint will adhere to the rust flake, but when the rust flake "flakes off" then the paint comes with it and you are left with a bare-patch.

 

For a comparison - try sticking some Sellotape to a dusty surface and see how well it sticks.

[Fraser W]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

What ever you use to 'convert / seal' the rust you must make sure that you have got rid of every bit of loose and flaking rust.

If you paint onto the top of a flake of rust, the paint will adhere to the rust flake, but when the rust flake "flakes off" then the paint comes with it and you are left with a bare-patch.

 

For a comparison - try sticking some Sellotape to a dusty surface and see how well it sticks.

Thank you ?? 

i have been scraping and vacuuming since 6.30am so she is as clean as possible