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Mooring Construction


dmr

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I have obtained initial CRT outline permission to create a new offside mooring on a northern canal. This will need some dredging, possibly deeper than the existing canal bed, and washwall construction, plus driving in of posts. This needs to be done by a contractor who understands canal work and is familiar with working with CRT. I am really struggling to find anyone willing to get involved with this as its a very small project. Does anybody have any suggestions?

People like Land and Water are not really suitable as they have huge plant that they bring in by road and crane so the "mobilisation" cost is likely to significantly exceed the cost of the actual work.

 

................Dave

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5 minutes ago, dmr said:

This will need some dredging, possibly deeper than the existing canal bed,

Would this actually be achievable ?

I would have thought that the bed would just 'slide' in and fill your deeper part - and - any passing boats will slowly push more into your 'hole'.

 

If the mooring needs to be deeper than the canal, how will your boat get on with a shallow canal ?

 

Just wondering.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Would this actually be achievable ?

I would have thought that the bed would just 'slide' in and fill your deeper part - and - any passing boats will slowly push more into your 'hole'.

 

If the mooring needs to be deeper than the canal, how will your boat get on with a shallow canal ?

 

Just wondering.

Obviously did not explain myself very well. Canal very shallow at edge so needs to go deeper, but not as deep as the main channel. What I meant is that its possibly more than just removing accumulated silt so an understanding of keeping the canal bed watertight might be required.

 

................Dave

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Just now, dmr said:

Obviously did not explain myself very well. Canal very shallow at edge so needs to go deeper, but not as deep as the main channel. What I meant is that its possibly more than just removing accumulated silt so an understanding of keeping the canal bed watertight might be required.

 

................Dave

Thank you.

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Only a suggestion:

Save a lot of time, money and effing about by moving on to a boat with less draft? ?

If you were to have permission to build a pontoon then that’d keep you away from the bank and in deeper water? 

 

There’s always Kier ?

Edited by Goliath
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26 minutes ago, dmr said:

I have obtained initial CRT outline permission to create a new offside mooring on a northern canal. This will need some dredging, possibly deeper than the existing canal bed, and washwall construction, plus driving in of posts. This needs to be done by a contractor who understands canal work and is familiar with working with CRT. I am really struggling to find anyone willing to get involved with this as its a very small project. Does anybody have any suggestions?

People like Land and Water are not really suitable as they have huge plant that they bring in by road and crane so the "mobilisation" cost is likely to significantly exceed the cost of the actual work.

 

................Dave

Only suggestion I can make is to try Alan Oliver, believe they are based in South Yorkshire, they have workboats and plant and do sub contracting to Land & Water.  Might be they can help you or advise who can.  They have a website.

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Only a suggestion:

Save a lot of time, money and effing about by moving on to a boat with less draft? ?

If you were to have permission to build a pontoon then that’d keep you away from the bank and in deeper water? 

 

There’s always Kier ?

Would need a draft of about 6 inches to get in there at the moment :).  A stipulation is that we don't intrude into the main channel which means getting the boats closer to the bank rather than bringing any structure out into the canal.
 

Have not tried Kier but again they probably also have a huge mobilisation cost

Need to shift about 40 cubic metres of stuff, this feels like a mountain to me but is barely an hours work for the big boys. Don't want to pay £10k to 15k "mobilisation" for an hours work.

 

...............Dave

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Whoever you get to do it, it will be expensive!

Have you considered scaffold poles with tanalised timber cladding?

Can be made to look very tidy.

eta: crossed with your reply above.

Edited by dor
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12 minutes ago, dor said:

Whoever you get to do it, it will be expensive!

Have you considered scaffold poles with tanalised timber cladding?

Can be made to look very tidy.

eta: crossed with your reply above.

We are expecting some significant expense, but £10k before we even start is not good

Not sure about tanalised, is that toxic?, absolutely not allowed to pollute the canal.

I fancy recycled plastic but that's surprisingly expensive. Need a minimum of about 8 inches square. There is a company that supplies timber posts in Greenheart etc for this very purpose.

 

.............Dave

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46 minutes ago, dmr said:

Would need a draft of about 6 inches to get in there at the moment :).  A stipulation is that we don't intrude into the main channel which means getting the boats closer to the bank rather than bringing any structure out into the canal.
 

Have not tried Kier but again they probably also have a huge mobilisation cost

Need to shift about 40 cubic metres of stuff, this feels like a mountain to me but is barely an hours work for the big boys. Don't want to pay £10k to 15k "mobilisation" for an hours work.

 

...............Dave

Assuming there’s a landowner who will profit from this, the cost will be shared?

 

Probably more than an hours work.

?

 

But hey ho, other people pay £20,000 for a conservatory or a drive for their car, or even a car ( yea bonkers!)  So in the scheme of things, if you’ve found your ideal spot then it’s worth the money. 

 

Why can’t you convince CRT to do the work? Promise a bat box in return. 

 

 

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Nice gentleman at Pennine in Skipton (a Northern canal!) has an interesting looking vessel, moored near their dry dock, which has a minl excavator device on it. No idea if he undertakes such projects - my comment is based solely on seeing him tootling backwards and forwards in/on it.

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4 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Assuming there’s a landowner who will profit from this, the cost will be shared?

 

Probably more than an hours work.

?

 

But hey ho, other people pay £20,000 for a conservatory or a drive for their car, or even a car ( yea bonkers!)  So in the scheme of things, if you’ve found your ideal spot then it’s worth the money. 

 

Why can’t you convince CRT to do the work? Promise a bat box in return. 

 

 

CRT sometimes park their digger on site, its there now, it would be great to offer the driver a little roll of £20 notes and get it done over a weekend but I don't think the world works like that anymore.

If you've got a pair of wellies would you could do it for a couple of beers? :)

 

There are actually a LOT of forms to get filled in, probably more paper than dredgings.

 

..............Dave

 

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

CRT sometimes park their digger on site, its there now, it would be great to offer the driver a little roll of £20 notes and get it done over a weekend but I don't think the world works like that anymore.

If you've got a pair of wellies would you could do it for a couple of beers? :)

 

There are actually a LOT of forms to get filled in, probably more paper than dredgings.

 

..............Dave

 

I’ve got a pair of waders. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

I have obtained initial CRT outline permission to create a new offside mooring on a northern canal. This will need some dredging, possibly deeper than the existing canal bed, and washwall construction, plus driving in of posts. This needs to be done by a contractor who understands canal work and is familiar with working with CRT. I am really struggling to find anyone willing to get involved with this as its a very small project. Does anybody have any suggestions?

People like Land and Water are not really suitable as they have huge plant that they bring in by road and crane so the "mobilisation" cost is likely to significantly exceed the cost of the actual work.

 

................Dave

At my present mooring the owners put them in themselves. They did tell me that CART or BW as it was then were very helpful throughout the process. I have never really asked how they went about doing the job but can ask if its any help to you.

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59 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

At my present mooring the owners put them in themselves. They did tell me that CART or BW as it was then were very helpful throughout the process. I have never really asked how they went about doing the job but can ask if its any help to you.

Its not clear if we have to use a CRT approved contractor, or just have our construction plans approved by CRT. I suspect we could drive posts in ourselves but probably not do the dredging. Its already a troublesome pound and if it did leak more in the future I could see us getting the blame and a huge bill, so a contractor with experience and insurance would be good. Once the bottom is dredged, some posts in, and I suspect a fabric washwall installed then we can do the rest ourselves.

 

Will probably need to drive in posts from the water as land access is difficult, if we need a stoppage then I think thats £1300 per week so need someone who can crack on.

Still lots of hurdles to overcome but its all very interesting learning lots of new stuff.

 

Suspect CRT are less helpful than BW because they now have less people with construction expertise and rely more on contractors, but so far they have been ok to deal with.

 

..............Dave

 

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I think your last reply scuppers my suggestion of getting a jcb  with a long reach arm that you can operate from on land. Probably not hugely expensive to pay for a machine and driver to do the shifting work. 

 

At my mooring I have planning permission to create a wooden decking to form a better mooring. However I don’t need to dredge or drive posts in as the deck will be cantilevered  slightly over the canal edge and the wash wall is in good condition.

 

slightly confused about how you will create a leak problem unless the canal bank is an embankment or built up above normal ground level

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4 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

 

slightly confused about how you will create a leak problem unless the canal bank is an embankment or built up above normal ground level

 

A lot of canals are made watertight by 'puddling' with clay. If a clumsy JCB driver breaches the puddling, a continuous leak will be the result. 

 

The water table is generally lower than canal water level, hence the need for puddling or the ditches wouldn't stay full of water for five minutes. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I think your last reply scuppers my suggestion of getting a jcb  with a long reach arm that you can operate from on land. Probably not hugely expensive to pay for a machine and driver to do the shifting work. 

 

At my mooring I have planning permission to create a wooden decking to form a better mooring. However I don’t need to dredge or drive posts in as the deck will be cantilevered  slightly over the canal edge and the wash wall is in good condition.

 

slightly confused about how you will create a leak problem unless the canal bank is an embankment or built up above normal ground level

 

Some canals are naturally watertight whilst others require a clay lining. As we will need to take out a fair depth of material then if there is a clay lining then we could remove too much of this and compromise the water tightness. I suspect the canal is naturally watertight but this is another reason why we need to involve a proper contractor.

 

................Dave

 

 

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3 hours ago, NB Esk said:

Only suggestion I can make is to try Alan Oliver, believe they are based in South Yorkshire, they have workboats and plant and do sub contracting to Land & Water.  Might be they can help you or advise who can.  They have a website.

 

Thanks, they look like just the right sort of people. I have one last contractor to get back to me, and if they are not interested then I will contact Alan Oliver.

 

.............Dave

 

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In which case i think CRT will be taking more interest... there will some sort of local ‘engineer’ in CRT who should be able to advise what’s the situation is and what they need you to do in terms of washwall construction.

 

PM me and I’ll try to find the guy who advised the local planning people for my

mooring

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6 hours ago, dmr said:

 

I fancy recycled plastic but that's surprisingly expensive. Need a minimum of about 8 inches square. There is a company that supplies timber posts in Greenheart etc for this very purpose.

 

.............Dave

Noooooooooo!

Not recycled plastic.?

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2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

Don't forget that removing dredging from site today involves quite a bit of paperwork, not to mention payments just in case it us toxic.

Yup, I am learning about all this stuff. Dumping the stuff on own  land next to the project is ideal. Next best is taking away safe dredgings. Worse case is taking away contaminated stuff, though the extra cost of removing contaminated stuff is less than I expected. Testing for contamination is also quite a big cost and so a big overhead for a small project. Using dredgings to create pond/habitat would be the ideal.

 

..............Dave

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