blackrose Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 I've never had a problem with cable ties degrading (unlike string). But I use 10mm wide cable ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUMPY Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 37 minutes ago, blackrose said: I've never had a problem with cable ties degrading (unlike string). But I use 10mm wide cable ties. Black cable ties are UV resistant, white ones are not! I never used to use a bow fender when doing flights of locks, the bow on its own was much better shape for riding gates. Oh, and the bylaws just say fenders should be ready to be deployed not that they should be used 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 Copper wire links snap easily but stand a bit of knocking about. I like the idea of brass shackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 I also quite like the idea of a brass shackle,but what size of brass shackle? I did have a look for failure loadings on brass shackles on the www a while ago but found nothing. I suspect a possible issue is that hanging up in a lock is a static load, but driving into a lock cill at low speed is a dynamic load and depending upon the exact shape of the nose of the boat can give a very high transient load. ..............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 12 hours ago, dmr said: My concern about a half cut through shackle (or chain link) is that failure requires the steel to actually break under tension and steel is much much stronger in this mode. Dead right. I cut about 90% of the way through a link i my bow fender chain and the boat was about a foot under normal level when the link finally gave way, when I was gassing to BiL and it caught in the gate without me noticing. I know this from the wet water line on the hull, and the size of the wave that ran up and down the lock after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 We shared a few locks with a hire dayboat yesterday, and with a new boater the day before, and we have had a couple of potentially scary moments ourselves on the Rochdale. There is a lot of stuff that can go wrong in a lock so I would like to get the weak link really sorted out. The gunnel under an overhanging stone lock wall is the really difficult one. I think continuous moorers probably have the best approach. .................Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onewheeler Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 10 hours ago, dmr said: I also quite like the idea of a brass shackle,but what size of brass shackle? Empirically, a 25 mm brass shackle does the job. One can overanalyse a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 33 minutes ago, Onewheeler said: Empirically, a 25 mm brass shackle does the job. One can overanalyse a problem. That's a good idea. Brass is shockingly weak in tension, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Another point is when one breaks a weak link, there is an obvious and immediate need to re-make the link in order to continue with one's journey. This means one needs to carry some sort of repair kit too. This need doesn't become obvious until one actually breaks the link and the bow fender hangs down off to one side. You can guess what makes me say this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Loddon said: . Oh, and the bylaws just say fenders should be ready to be deployed not that they should be used Sorry not quite true. This is the actual wording from the Bye Laws:- Vessels to have fenders ready for use 6. Every vessel navigated on any canal shall have ready for immediate use proper fenders of suitable material and in good condition and the master of such vessel shall use such fenders whenever there is a risk of the vessel striking against any other vessel or against any wall, lockgate, bridge or other thing. Shall use, not just deploy. (my bold) Howard Edited April 24, 2019 by howardang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain birdseye Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 This is why I use cheap carabinas and carry a few spares, they are easy to snap on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Onewheeler said: Empirically, a 25 mm brass shackle does the job. One can overanalyse a problem. Thats a very big shackle I was thinking of about 5mm. .............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, dmr said: Thats a very big shackle I was thinking of about 5mm. .............Dave Surely that would be ridiculous small..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Surely that would be ridiculous small..... I was just making a silly smart-arse forum post. I believe shackles are specified by the thickness (diameter) of the steel in the arch of the shackle so a 5mm shackle is what most of us would call a 25mm shackle. There are lots of cheap Chinese brass shackles on ebay so I will try some. The big attraction of the cut chain link is that it starts to open under "almost accidents" of bigger impacts so you can see that its not to strong. A shackle deforms under stress but its not easy to see if its got close to actual failure. ................Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUMPY Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, dmr said: I was just making a silly smart-arse forum post. I believe shackles are specified by the thickness (diameter) of the steel in the arch of the shackle so a 5mm shackle is what most of us would call a 25mm shackle. There are lots of cheap Chinese brass shackles on ebay so I will try some. The big attraction of the cut chain link is that it starts to open under "almost accidents" of bigger impacts so you can see that its not to strong. A shackle deforms under stress but its not easy to see if its got close to actual failure. ................Dave Is it the arch or the pin? I always thought it was the diameter of the pin if you have to do it that way. Proper shackles are specified by SWL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Another point is when one breaks a weak link, there is an obvious and immediate need to re-make the link in order to continue with one's journey. This means one needs to carry some sort of repair kit too. This need doesn't become obvious until one actually breaks the link and the bow fender hangs down off to one side. You can guess what makes me say this... This is where the various "come in handy" bits of rope "come in handy"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 4 hours ago, howardang said: Sorry not quite true. This is the actual wording from the Bye Laws:- Vessels to have fenders ready for use 6. Every vessel navigated on any canal shall have ready for immediate use proper fenders of suitable material and in good condition and the master of such vessel shall use such fenders whenever there is a risk of the vessel striking against any other vessel or against any wall, lockgate, bridge or other thing. Shall use, not just deploy. (my bold) Howard Yes but you missed off the next bit - whenever there is a risk of the vessel striking....... so ready to deploy when there is a risk....... so touching gently onto (for example) a lock gate, then gently sliding up or down would probably not constitute ‘striking’ though one could argue that there was still a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, Chewbacka said: Yes but you missed off the next bit - whenever there is a risk of the vessel striking....... so ready to deploy when there is a risk....... so touching gently onto (for example) a lock gate, then gently sliding up or down would probably not constitute ‘striking’ though one could argue that there was still a risk. Oh no I didn't. I think if you look more closely you will see that I did quote the section in full, and didn't miss anything off. If you want to make the rule say what you want it to say then please go ahead, it's your prerogative, but don't try to split hairs, by misrepresenting what I said. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 5 hours ago, howardang said: Shall use, not just deploy. Yes, but only... 5 hours ago, howardang said: ... whenever there is a risk of the vessel striking against any other vessel or against any wall, lockgate, bridge or other thing. Does riding a lock gate constitute ‘striking’? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eid Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, WotEver said: Does riding a lock gate constitute ‘striking’? You should be asking if using a lock constitutes a risk of striking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, WotEver said: Yes, but only... Does riding a lock gate constitute ‘striking’? Not necessarily, but the rule says “risk of striking” and that of course relies on the judgement of the “master” at the time. I suggest that it will be up to him/her to justify any damage caused, especially if no fenders are used. Howard Edited April 24, 2019 by howardang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 minute ago, eid said: You should be asking if using a lock constitutes a risk of striking. Indeed. And I guess it does 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Just now, WotEver said: Indeed. And I guess it does And there I would agree:-) Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eid Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, howardang said: I suggest that it will be up to him/her them to justify any damage caused, especially if no genders are used. FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, eid said: FTFY Blooming predictive text! Thanks.☹️ Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Featured Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now