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monkeyhanger

Scumbling

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4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Or can you suggest who actually has stock of the Ratcliffes Linseed stuff please?

 

 

 

 

No, sorry.

 

I didn't check the website, just the Google Shopping link.

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3 hours ago, Ray T said:

The same could be said about steam loco's. Whilst in their heyday the Express Passenger Loco's were kept spick & span, pride was taken in the job and the appearance.

Alright goods loco's didn't get similar treatment but they tended not to represent "The Company" as much as express locos.

Turning to today preserved loco's are kept in a condition which they never would have been during the decline of steam.

 

Also working boats were an advert for the company as well. Rhetorical question, would you use a house removal company who had vans of tatty appearance and look as if they would break down round the next corner?

 

If I owned and had spent x thousands of £'s restoring an ex working boat I certainly would not want the "rat" look.

 

I suppose it all boils down to "pride in appearance."

But my point is they started with a rough basic interior and the immaculate scumble and varnishing is possibly a modern take on the folk art that the crews used to brighten up their environment cheaply.

most of the modern decoration appears to have evolved from the decoration of the no 1s owners who lived aboard.

on the fleet boats i suspect pride was shown in maintainance cleaning and brasswork, as well as portable items rather than structural.

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

I seem to recall Laurence Hogg saying the GU boat cabin interiors were originally painted plain grey.

So if you have a town class with a replica riveted cabin( northwich) you need to paint the inside a flat grey.

cant see that going down too well, on some modern relica’s

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9 minutes ago, carlt said:

 

No, sorry.

 

I didn't check the website, just the Google Shopping link.

 

Have to say, for peeps reading this thread, I quite like the Polyvine stuff and I can get good results with it as an amateur.

 

 

  

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I use the same Polyvine clear scumble glaze which I tint down with their light oak stain before thinning well down. For reasons I’m not aware of, Ratcliffes fell foul of the VOC regs and switched to a water based product which I’ve not used.

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2 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

So if you have a town class with a replica riveted cabin( northwich) you need to paint the inside a flat grey.

cant see that going down too well, on some modern relica’s

This is also the case with 'traditional' rose and castle decoration, an aspect that was missing from Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. narrow boats when new but present on just about every early liveried boat nowadays.

 

It is my view that that those Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. narrow boats that did have grained cabins had some form of straight forward 'flash over', devoid of fancy bits.

 

So once complete will my boat be 'flashed over' and without roses and castles - not a chance :captain:

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I found an old full tin of Ratcliffs full fat type in the dark recess of the engine room. Still got it. ;)

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Sorry Pete to bang on about this but what do you know of the woolwich boats with wooden cabins. ( big) with regard to decoration. I can see the boarded grey cabins in the steel topped boats being modern etc, bit i assume the woolwich built boats might have been a bit more traditional, as you are covering up t and g , rather than boards.

I have a picture somewhere of back doors on a town and they seem to have tecessed paneling and certainly no roses and castles.

None on my cabin either, bit again we detail personal stuff.

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16 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Sorry Pete to bang on about this but what do you know of the woolwich boats with wooden cabins. ( big) with regard to decoration. I can see the boarded grey cabins in the steel topped boats being modern etc, bit i assume the woolwich built boats might have been a bit more traditional, as you are covering up t and g , rather than boards.

I have a picture somewhere of back doors on a town and they seem to have tecessed paneling and certainly no roses and castles.

None on my cabin either, bit again we detail personal stuff.

There is no shortage of period photographs showing Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. narrow boats in their first liveries. What I find difficult is substantiating Mr Hogg's claim that they were painted plain grey internally as black and white images only show a blandness which could equally be graining to my mind. What is clear is that the Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. did not have traditional decoration applied to their boats when built, although many of these were retrospectively decorated by the families that operated them. To be honest I can not really answer your question with any conviction as I have never seen original painting specifications for these boats, and period photographs are misleading.

 

One of the things I do find interesting is the Harland and Wolff Ltd. built buttys had back doors without a 'castle panel', instead having two elongated panels - all motors having the standardised panelled doors we know today. Also the large Woolwich boats were all delivered with the exterior of the cabin panelled, and to my knowledge BUCKDEN is the only motor to be rebuilt as such.

 

Equally many Harland and Wolff Ltd. built motors now sport W.J. Yarwood & Sons Ltd. style pigeon boxes, although in fairness many of these boats lost their original pigeon boxes under 'British Waterways' when they were replaced with wooden flat top versions :captain:

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In the whole time we have had gu boats we have never had one fully signwritten  and painted,- in a period fashion.

once we can get the engine hole hinges done and new doors on the boat its something we intend, but it always drops down the list as resources get eaten by other things!

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On 18/04/2019 at 20:43, pete harrison said:

There is no shortage of period photographs showing Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. narrow boats in their first liveries. What I find difficult is substantiating Mr Hogg's claim that they were painted plain grey internally as black and white images only show a blandness which could equally be graining to my mind. What is clear is that the Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. did not have traditional decoration applied to their boats when built, although many of these were retrospectively decorated by the families that operated them. To be honest I can not really answer your question with any conviction as I have never seen original painting specifications for these boats, and period photographs are misleading.

 

One of the things I do find interesting is the Harland and Wolff Ltd. built buttys had back doors without a 'castle panel', instead having two elongated panels - all motors having the standardised panelled doors we know today. Also the large Woolwich boats were all delivered with the exterior of the cabin panelled, and to my knowledge BUCKDEN is the only motor to be rebuilt as such.

 

Equally many Harland and Wolff Ltd. built motors now sport W.J. Yarwood & Sons Ltd. style pigeon boxes, although in fairness many of these boats lost their original pigeon boxes under 'British Waterways' when they were replaced with wooden flat top versions :captain:

This is on the stern of Hawkesbury, definitely not an original fitting. Having worked in an underground depot and various transport firms, its not unusual to rob something off a non runner to keep another in service. 

 Strange thing is that i have yet to see one on a Yarwoods built boat. 

IMAG1199-2.jpg

  • Greenie 1

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The addition of shiny things on your boat is probably one of the most fun things, and impossible to create on a relica.

I suspect personalisation of company boats was pretty rife, and the items moved around.

certainly when selling boats i have taken off prized bits and substituted with the buyers knowledge. 

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4 hours ago, BWM said:

This is on the stern of Hawkesbury, definitely not an original fitting. Having worked in an underground depot and various transport firms, its not unusual to rob something off a non runner to keep another in service. 

 Strange thing is that i have yet to see one on a Yarwoods built boat. 

I know a Yarwood with a bit of fancy on the rams head:

518038509_stern08October2017(PeteHarrison).jpg.af43ae4d29e1467864bf7727da2ea12d.jpg

 

And it is a bit cleaner now, and awaiting refitting (along with a few other renovated bits and bobs) once this boat has completed its restoration:

947160073_OTLEYcleanedbrasswareMay20181.jpg.dd1e962a2bc32cc91ffb0367d68a9e5f.jpg

 

 

 

 

  • Greenie 2

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1 hour ago, pete harrison said:

I know a Yarwood with a bit of fancy on the rams head:

518038509_stern08October2017(PeteHarrison).jpg.af43ae4d29e1467864bf7727da2ea12d.jpg

 

And it is a bit cleaner now, and awaiting refitting (along with a few other renovated bits and bobs) once this boat has completed its restoration:

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you aren't going to leave the fenders like that? ;)

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31 minutes ago, Ray T said:

I hope you aren't going to leave the fenders like that? ;)

They were not my fenders to lift up when I took that photograph, but it was the day that the owners agreed the sale.

 

Those fenders were so rotten they fell off somewhere south of Banbury, but I have a new set of three tipcats waiting to go back on. One of the eyes welded on to the stern that hold the fenders in place also broke off, but along with loads of other things has now been repaired or replaced. I can not speak highly enough of the standard of work so far and I am sure I will not be disappointed with the end result :captain:

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15 hours ago, dave moore said:

Roger Hatchard may have added that when he had her in the 60s.... typical bling!!

A good friend of mine made the bronze spacer, as the nut was hovering uncomfortably on a motley collection of washers before. 

12 hours ago, pete harrison said:

I know a Yarwood with a bit of fancy on the rams head:

518038509_stern08October2017(PeteHarrison).jpg.af43ae4d29e1467864bf7727da2ea12d.jpg

 

And it is a bit cleaner now, and awaiting refitting (along with a few other renovated bits and bobs) once this boat has completed its restoration:

947160073_OTLEYcleanedbrasswareMay20181.jpg.dd1e962a2bc32cc91ffb0367d68a9e5f.jpg

 

 

 

 

I should have been clearer as to what i was pointing out, the collar has WJ Yarwoods and sons in raised , cast lettering on it - unlikely to have been fitted by H+W!

  Nice collection of brass however.

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16 hours ago, dave moore said:

Roger Hatchard may have added that when he had her in the 60s.... typical bling!!

I thought we were looking at the cast Yarwood's & Sons rudder tube cap!

Was H & W plain, or did it too have their name cast on it? TYCHO certainly had it's Yarwoods in place.

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12 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

I thought we were looking at the cast Yarwood's & Sons rudder tube cap!

Was H & W plain, or did it too have their name cast on it? TYCHO certainly had it's Yarwoods in place.

Not sure what H+W used but i was quite surprised to find the writing under the multiple layers of paint, it just looked like rusty lumps. It may well have been put on by Mr Hatchard, i've seen at least two different rams head/swan necks in photos from that time, with the original type now fitted, as per the later pictures. 

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The base of the ram's head on the H & W boats was round, while the Yarwoods was square. The embossed lettering was W J YARWOODS & SONS Ltd.

This was taken shortly after lots of work done at Stockton. There's new ash decking topped with new oak cants. Sadly the rate of deterioration was rapid, despite oils and scrubbing. That ash curled up like balsa wood after a couple of years. Very disappointing.

 

563260281_057PICT0735cropped.jpg.fa0f50c3a5e0f000f4a0e5875c3bf59b.jpg

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2 hours ago, BWM said:

I should have been clearer as to what i was pointing out, the collar has WJ Yarwoods and sons in raised , cast lettering on it - unlikely to have been fitted by H+W!

My apologies, clearly I was distracted by something shiny.

 

It is surprising how many of these boats have bits taken off other boats, often from different builders or boat types. My large Northwich has a back end rail from a small Woolwich motor, and this has been in place since at least 1967.

 

I think the most common 'miss-fitment' must be a Yarwood type pigeon box on a Harland and Wolff motor :captain:  

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1 hour ago, pete harrison said:

My apologies, clearly I was distracted by something shiny.

 

It is surprising how many of these boats have bits taken off other boats, often from different builders or boat types. My large Northwich has a back end rail from a small Woolwich motor, and this has been in place since at least 1967.

 

I think the most common 'miss-fitment' must be a Yarwood type pigeon box on a Harland and Wolff motor :captain:  

Yes our latest mod to our woolwich is just that. I call it personalisation!

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2 hours ago, pete harrison said:

My apologies, clearly I was distracted by something shiny.

 

It is surprising how many of these boats have bits taken off other boats, often from different builders or boat types. My large Northwich has a back end rail from a small Woolwich motor, and this has been in place since at least 1967.

 

I think the most common 'miss-fitment' must be a Yarwood type pigeon box on a Harland and Wolff motor :captain:  

Fortunately what i believe to be the original back end rail has been fitted to the conversion cabin top as a centre line, rather than discarded. It appears to have had a little removed from the centre to reduce the length but is otherwise intact. 

 I'd love to get me hands on an original style H+W pigeon box but don't rate my chances. I was recently given one of the large cooling vents as fitted with the PD2 but i'm not sure i want to cut a new hole in the engine room roof!

IMAG1214-2.jpg

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2 hours ago, BWM said:

I was recently given one of the large cooling vents as fitted with the PD2 but i'm not sure i want to cut a new hole in the engine room roof!

There would be little point in fitting a Petter PD2 vent unless you have an air cooled engine, and if I remember correctly HAWKESBURY has a three cylinder water cooled engine, having had its Petter removed in 1980 or thereabouts :captain:

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20 hours ago, pete harrison said:

 I can not speak highly enough of the standard of work so far and I am sure I will not be disappointed with the end result :captain:

Talk about crawling!!! So this is how you get ahead of me in the queue.☹️

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