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Boat share question


Mick in Bangkok

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Hi to everyone,

I am planning a retirement including an option to buy a boat and explore the canals, as I live in Thailand and will winter over here I will not be looking to live full time on board so will have expenses of storing a boat during winter months as well as keeping our home in service in Thailand during the summer months making it a stretch on finances.

As a compromise I am now considering a boat share option and would like to ask if any other members have any experience in this field and can offer advice on their experience.

Some questions I have is that boats operated by management companies appear to be selling for around  £1500 per 1/12 share so times 12 = boat value of  £18,000, this would appear quite cheap given what I have seen boats sell for, is this something to be weary of.

Also might there be other simular options available I am not aware of, such as individuals getting together to split a boat between themselves on a 50/50 or 30/30/30 share basis.

Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated.

Cheers Mick

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Hi again,

Simular to my earlier thread on boat sharing I am considering boat share options having seen boat management companies operating 1/12 boat shares. As I am living overseas and planning to return to UK for several months per year these options are limited in use to me as they are aimed at each owner taking several short breaks per year whereas I would need a boat in one block of time to suite my travel plans. Is it appropriate and within the form rules to seek potential boat share partners on this site ?

Just throwing out an idea as myself and my wife live in a comfortable apartment here in Bangkok would it be worth exploring a time swap with existing boat owners who may consider a couple of months a year in Thailand as a reasonable trade for using their boat during the same period.

Cheers Mick

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Morning, 2.00 am here, so not too many folks around. There have been other such propositions, but I think that you may find that the insurance of a privately owned and operated boat does not permit commercial "hire" of any sort, and that could fall within the remit of a swap. 

The 1/12 or any share is not "cheap", it will be an ongoing charge, every year, so your £1500 is the cost of four weeks for one year. Some time slots are more expensive than others, [supply and demand], so you may be able to find something within budget, but I think trying to find someone to do a straight swap would be very difficult.

Others will respond in due course.

Welcome to the forum.

Edited by LadyG
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Good morning Lady G,

 

You’re up early. Thank you for your reply, I’ve been a form member for a while just not posting so often.

 

Just to clarify I am not considering a commercial option but to jointly own or share a boat with a partner or two or even to invite a guest once properly introduced to swap apartment and boat while owner is absent. We are quite house proud and I can imagine most boat owners are very boat proud so only open to select and genuine swaps as opposed to finding a loop hole in legislations etc.

 

I have looked into the ongoing costs of the 1/12 share options and overall costs are far more favourable then owning a boat outright and then paying mooring/storage costs for so many months of the year while I am away. The only drawback is the boats in these syndicates appear only to be available for 3 to 4 slots per year and not in one extended period hence my approach for a likeminded partner with similar requirements.

 

Cheers Mick

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Oh, yes, sry was half asleep, I  read the "3" under your avatar as number of posts. I appreciate you are not wanting a commercial transaction, I am thinking about how the insurance company could view it.

Edited by LadyG
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The problem with what you envisaged is that if you want to have the use of the boat for an extended period this might well be in what  is seen as "summer" boating and you might have difficulty finding someone to share the boat with you who could only use the boat during the "winter" months when stoppages may restrict the boating opportunities 

Haggis 

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6 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

As a compromise I am now considering a boat share option

If it is a 'managed arrangement' then the rules applied to it become the same as a hire-boat (stricter BSSC, insurance etc etc), if it managed by the owners then it is just a 'standard' private boat with an 'extended family of owners'.

 

Example from the BSS :

 

Note on the BSS Examination for non-private boats - If a vessel is a hire boat, third-party managed share-owned boat, trip boat, rented residential boat, floating business or some other form of commercial or public vessel, the boat will be examined to either the 2017 Hire Boat Requirements or 2002 BSS Standards as stipulated by the navigation authority registering your boat.

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LadyG is unfortunately incorrect. I had shareboats for 23 years before buying a whole one of my own. They are an excellent solution to regular boating if you dont have the time to take advantage of a whole boat

 

There are two cost elements.

 

1. the purchase price of the share. This ranges from £10,000 plus for a share in a new boat (boat value 12 x £10,000 = £120,000), to say £1,500 for a share in a much older boat, say 10-15 years old. 

 

2. The annual cost of maintenance and management companies fees. Typically £1000 per year but obviously dependent upon maintenance required in any particular year. Older boats cost more to maintain than new boats. Shareboat require a lot of maintenance due to the intensive use they get, typically higher than hire boats. It is not unusual for annual repaint and blacking, plus 6 oil changes a year.

 

Some syndicates self manage rather than use a company. This is cheaper and more friendly but you will probably be expected to take on a role such as being responsible for tne booking system or licence renewal etc.

 

This website is a good place to look for shares in boats or if you want to buy a boat and find others to share with, to find potential sharers.

 

http://www.boatshare.co.uk

 

 

 

Edited by cuthound
To add the last paragraph
  • Greenie 2
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So, if OP buys a privately owned 1/12 share [there are a few NBs at that price. He has bought in to a NB valued at £18K?

I think I am am correct in saying, that does not give him a four week slot [if that is how they are allocated] There will be other costs involved, 

I obviously did not get this message from David Johns

 

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13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

So, if OP buys a privately owned 1/12 share [there are a few NBs at that price. He has bought in to a NB valued at £18K?

I think I am am correct in saying, that does not give him a four week slot [if that is how they are allocated]

It would depend on how long the boat is out of the water for maintenance. Not to mention 12 x 4 week slots don't add up to 365 days, it actually adds up to 336 days. 

 

So if you bought a 12th share you could have 4 weeks easy. 

19 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I obviously did not get this message from David Johns

PS as he has his own account here a wouldn't think he'd need to ?

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You can always try - there are plenty of unusual and specific arrangements but you asked originally about the principle and, as far as I can see, a boat share is most definitely not going to meet your need and better to put your time in to researching something that does (eg custom made schemes). That said, I see a lot of boats in marinas that seem to be unvisited between September and Easter. You may well find that owning a fairly new boat and keeping it ion a marina with a very helpful engineering capability on site is the easiest way for your planned lifestyle. 

 

Stress-free lifestyles generally avoid pushing the envelope - which is what your time share plan seems to be doing. The more unusual the scheme, the more likely you will be 'on your own' when things go awry. Remember, there is a Law (built into creation) that says that things will go wrong when you can least afford/are able to fix them!

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49 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

It would depend on how long the boat is out of the water for maintenance. Not to mention 12 x 4 week slots don't add up to 365 days, it actually adds up to 336 days. 

 

So if you bought a 12th share you could have 4 weeks easy. 

Yes, I was just throwing a few ballpark figures around. In the example by CtC, the [privately owned, professionally  managed ] boat is available 50 weeks of the year, I think it is blacked and out of the water, for maintenance, probably professionally in a temperature controlled bay. This one is allocated by ballot, in weeks, which would not suit OP, he really wants {I assume} for example five weeks continuously, and I get the impression he wants summer UK weeks.. The annual costs of maintenance, licencing, insurance, are going to be a fair bit on top, 

eg

Licence £75 -100

Insurance £20

Servicing by professional £50 

Blacking , minor maintenance £50

On going upgrades, maintenance £ £50

Capital savings fund £200

Fuel five weeks £ 100 - £200

Moorine fees £200

Pumpout £20

TOTAL £900 TO £990

Of course I have plucked these figures out of the sky, but what I am saying is £1500 does not buy a five week NB holiday in UK summertime.

I think two weeks out of the water and 48 weeks on the cut, is pretty tight if there was any hiccup.

Any boat which is going to be used in every season would probably need Eberspacher type heating and an independant Bubble type diesel stove. I don't see many people regularly buying in to five winter weeks, what happen if a boat gets frozen in, or any other mishap which is more likely with the CRT winter shenanigans.

UPDATE

I see some folks who have real experience and info have responded to the early morning posting. I will take a back seat :)

Edited by LadyG
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16 minutes ago, LadyG said:

In the example by CtC, the boat is available 50 weeks of the year,

I've seen almost all of David's videos but I haven't watched that one recently. Once you start looking at share boats and how their weeks are allocated there are loads of different ways they do this. Most (but not all) of the commercial ones seem to have a similar set up, but a lot of the private syndicates have huge variations in how they allocate their weeks. Some of them do offer lumps of several weeks all at the same time.

 

I get the impression that there are far more private syndicates out there than internet research would first suggest, and it would seem some of them have their own websites. 

 

 

Edited by Tumshie
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1 hour ago, cuthound said:

LadyG is unfortunately incorrect. I had shareboats for 23 years before buying a whole one of my own. They are an excellent solution to regular boating if you dont have the time to take advantage of a whole boat

 

There are two cost elements.

 

1. the purchase price of the share. This ranges from £10,000 plus for a share in a new boat (boat value 12 x £10,000 = £120,000), to say £1,500 for a share in a much older boat, say 10-15 years old. 

 

2. The annual cost of maintenance and management companies fees. Typically £1000 per year but obviously dependent upon maintenance required in any particular year. Older boats cost more to maintain than new boats. Shareboat require a lot of maintenance due to the intensive use they get, typically higher than hire boats. It is not unusual for annual repaint and blacking, plus 6 oil changes a year.

 

Some syndicates self manage rather than use a company. This is cheaper and more friendly but you will probably be expected to take on a role such as being responsible for tne booking system or licence renewal etc.

 

This website is a good place to look for shares in boats or if you want to buy a boat and find others to share with, to find potential sharers.

 

http://www.boatshare.co.uk

 

 

 

Agree with all of the above. We have been part of a self managed share boat for the past seven years, the initial share price buys you a share of the boat. This was a one of payment and entitled us to four weeks use a year minimum. This often worked out more though as some owners didn't use their full allocation and we often end up with an extra week.

Then the ongoing costs for maintenance are split evenly between the owners. Much cheaper for a self managed boat particularly if the owners are prepared to muck in.

 

The problem I see for Mick in Bangkok is that it appears he would like a block of maybe a month or more at the same time which might be difficult to find in a traditional set up of 10 or 12 shares. 

 

I do recall someone on here a few years back looking for 2 partners to form a syndicate of 3 owners so it can be done but obviously the costs will be much higher. The other option may be to buy multiple shares in the same boat.

 

 

  • Greenie 1
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Like many here, we had a shared boat for several years before I bought Cygnet.  It suited us well.  Living abroad, you'd have to look carefully at how usage is allocated.  Phil Duerden's website linked in Cuthound's post #6 is certainly the best source of what's available, and you will be able to contact potential sharers through that.   

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There are lots of people on here who have had or are part of a share scheme, I am one of them and shared for I think 8 years. We had a fixt week system so it was the same every year, we saved a fortune when we went self managed, as owners dropped out the remaining syndicat bought them up so we ended up with just 4 owners.
I think the biggest problem the OP will have will be finding someone to buy the winter share, most like boating in the summer.

 

Looking at an add for shares this one values the boat at over £96K http://www.boatshare.co.uk/oakmere.html

This one an older boat is much cheaper, at only £800 for a 1/12 share, http://www.boatshare.co.uk/spellbound.html but you could probably sell a whole boat for £35K. Once you stop using your shate its a millstone, its costing you £1500 a year just because you cant sell it.

The running costs for the two are about the same £1500 per year so there is a much better market for the newer boats.

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2 hours ago, cuthound said:

LadyG is unfortunately incorrect. I had shareboats for 23 years before buying a whole one of my own. They are an excellent solution to regular boating if you dont have the time to take advantage of a whole boat

 

There are two cost elements.

 

1. the purchase price of the share. This ranges from £10,000 plus for a share in a new boat (boat value 12 x £10,000 = £120,000), to say £1,500 for a share in a much older boat, say 10-15 years old. 

 

2. The annual cost of maintenance and management companies fees. Typically £1000 per year but obviously dependent upon maintenance required in any particular year. Older boats cost more to maintain than new boats. Shareboat require a lot of maintenance due to the intensive use they get, typically higher than hire boats. It is not unusual for annual repaint and blacking, plus 6 oil changes a year.

 

Some syndicates self manage rather than use a company. This is cheaper and more friendly but you will probably be expected to take on a role such as being responsible for tne booking system or licence renewal etc.

 

This website is a good place to look for shares in boats or if you want to buy a boat and find others to share with, to find potential sharers.

 

http://www.boatshare.co.uk

 

 

 

This web site certainly was worth looking at and all comments noted and appreciated. I guess I am looking at a private syndicate of around 6 members with a fixed week system. I have time now to look around so will keep looking and researching for what is available and hopefully come up with something for either the end of this year or next year.

Cheers Mick

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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Note to OP:  you can ask mods to merge threads, this will undoubtedly cause the internet to break. 

If this could be done that would be great, sorry for causing confusion, I was thinking perhaps leaving the one in boats for sale s a long term advert to see who may reply

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3 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

If this could be done that would be great, sorry for causing confusion, I was thinking perhaps leaving the one in boats for sale s a long term advert to see who may reply

I am not the one to advise [don't ask me how I gained my reputation for breaking the internet] , but to ask a mod to do something, you use the "report" button. Probably best to let them both/all die a natural death, they will sink out of sight in a few days if left undisturbed.

Edited by LadyG
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9 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

This web site certainly was worth looking at and all comments noted and appreciated. I guess I am looking at a private syndicate of around 6 members with a fixed week system. I have time now to look around so will keep looking and researching for what is available and hopefully come up with something for either the end of this year or next year.

Cheers Mick

If you can find 'winter' members then I would guess that they would expect a considerable discount on their 8 week share value when compared to your Summer 8 weeks.

You could well end up paying 1/3rd of the boat costs for a 1/6th share.

Your 'Autumn / Winter / Spring' members will get much reduced use from the boat due to both the number of canal closures due to maintenance and weather.

 

I think you have previously posted that you (have / do) sail. 

As I'm sure you are aware many boats are lifted out in October and put back in in April - I don't see why this couldn't happen for you and your NB.

A marina hardstanding will be considerably less than paying for a floating berth, and, you only need a 6 month licence (which will pay the cost of lift out/in and propping up)

 

There are a number of 'boat services' around that I'm sure would supervise the lift out/in, clean/hoover/wash it get the battery charged up, fuel tank filled and water tank filled.

I know there is a small-company at one of the marinas we have used that do it.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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16 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

This web site certainly was worth looking at and all comments noted and appreciated. I guess I am looking at a private syndicate of around 6 members with a fixed week system. I have time now to look around so will keep looking and researching for what is available and hopefully come up with something for either the end of this year or next year.

Cheers Mick

I had never really thought about share boats until very recently. The reason being they allocation weeks would never work for me. But one caught my eye not that long ago because it had set weeks at a time of the year that suited me. I've probbly talked my self out of it but the principle still stands. 

 

I know that summer is the most popular time of the year and is probably snapped up very quickly but there are people out there who for what ever reasons find holidaying at the hight of summer difficult, and would welcome a boat share where you took the summer and left them the off season. I'm someone who can't get away for the summer season myself. 

 

What I'm saying is you might have to look a bit harder to find what you want and it may be you have to find the people first and then buy a boat between you but there are peeps out there who could be suitable share holders. 

 

 

 

Edited by Tumshie
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Mick, I may have missed it, it how much boating do you want to do each year? If it's 2 weeks in the summer then a typical 12 owner/4 weeks per share may work (you just wouldn't use your winter weeks). If you want to spend 6 months afloat then you will probably need your own boat, and a marina to look after it during the winter. There are a few forum members who live overseas in winter  who do (or have done) the latter, who can advise on the practicalities.

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7 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

I had never really thought about share boats until very recently. The reason being they allocation weeks would never work for me. But one caught my eye not that long ago because it had set weeks at a time of the year that suited me. I've probbly talked my self out of it but the principle still stands. 

 

I know that summer is the most popular time of the year and is probably snapped up very quickly but there are people out there who for what ever reasons find holidaying at the hight of summer difficult, and would welcome a boat share where you took the summer and left them the off season. I'm someone who can't get away for the summer season myself. 

 

What I'm saying is you might have to look a bit harder to find what you want and it may be you have to find the people first and then buy a boat between you but there are peeps out there who could be suitable share holders. 

 

 

 

This is currently looking to be the best option available, 3 owners with 3 months of usable time each or even two owners split 50/50 would suite my needs very well and help a lot with costs

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Mick, I may have missed it, it how much boating do you want to do each year? If it's 2 weeks in the summer then a typical 12 owner/4 weeks per share may work (you just wouldn't use your winter weeks). If you want to spend 6 months afloat then you will probably need your own boat, and a marina to look after it during the winter. There are a few forum members who live overseas in winter  who do (or have done) the latter, who can advise on the practicalities.

I would like 6 months per year but would compromise on budget and be happy with 2-4 months with split up front costs and maintenance etc.

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