Notre Dame on Fire

[Dr Bob]

45 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The Duke of Rutland has offered to donate mature oak trees grown on his estate at Belvoir Castle in Leicestershire to help restore Notre Dame.   

The 850-year-old cathedral in central Paris lost its spire and much of the ornate timber roof during Monday's devastating blaze.     

French cultural heritage expert Bertrand de Feydeau said France no longer has trees on its territory big enough to replace Notre Dame's ancient wooden beams, which were cut in the 13th century from primal forests.  

But the Duke of Rutland and a number of other owners of historic British estates have now offered to provide some of the oaks.  

Have they not got TPO's on them? .......and if not, why not! I agree. Use rsj's.

[Bee]

After that fire I should think its been weakened. Might be better to make the roof frame in aluminium and tile or slate over that. Doesn't seem like a good idea to plonk a small forest on top of it. Those buttresses on the outside walls are there for a reason, to stop the stone vaulting under the roof from shoving the walls out, I reckon it needs a lid on it a bit sharpish. 

[Mike Todd]

35 minutes ago, StationMaster said:

I disagree with this (the underlined bit). Why cut down ancient oak trees when in reality modern materials would suffice. Grrrrrr.... Maybe I should join the climate protesters...

But do those 'modern' materials have consequences in terms of the production of raw materials (eg mining, quarrying etc?) I assume that in today's climate, a plastic spire would be unacceptable.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Mike Todd

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

But do those 'modern' materials have consequences in terms of the production of raw materials (eg mining, quarrying etc?) I assume that in today's climate, a plastic spire would be unacceptable.

I'm not sure. Let the experts work out the least environmental consequences v cost v quickness and return the building to a place of worship asap - otherwise keep it as a tourist attraction. Just my opinion.

[Bee]

2 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

But do those 'modern' materials have consequences in terms of the production of raw materials (eg mining, quarrying etc?) I assume that in today's climate, a plastic spire would be unacceptable.

That's a difficult one. Cutting down a tree is maybe marginally less harmful, especially if you plant a couple of acorns. A plastic spire made from that recycled plastic stuff that sometimes goes into fenceposts and garden gates is probably the best material, roof the whole structure in tiles made from recycled runner from old tyres and that could be a 'statement for our times', even better, solar panels! Now where's that planning application and the French - English dictionary..

[Iain_S]

17 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

When was the (riveted iron) Eiffel Tower built? Surely before the Notre Dame spire.

 

17 hours ago, carlt said:

No...1889 for the Bastille Centenary.

 

17 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Same century though....

 

And only ten years after the Tay Rail Bridge Disaster; caused, in part, by poor quality control of the cast iron.

[Dr Bob]

18 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

But do those 'modern' materials have consequences in terms of the production of raw materials (eg mining, quarrying etc?) I assume that in today's climate, a plastic spire would be unacceptable.

Thermoplastic composite maybe but plastic won't hack it.

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

It is startling that France, despite its vast areas of forests, has no trees big enough for the job.

But surely if these oak trees are cut tomorrow, the wood won't be ready for use until much later? I don't know how long oak takes to season properly. But it's a most admirable gesture.

 

I assume Feydeau is the name of the Duke's dog.

Not as startling as you might imagine, the French forest owners have been selling most of  their raw Oak lumber to China for years, to the extent that the supply is now becoming depleted. Perhaps they now wish they had imposed the same ban they put on French farmers more than 200 years ago forbiddingh them from selling their Walnut trees to English Furniture makers.

 

The lack of nationally available raw materials also puts an interesting perspective on Macron's opportunist statement that the Cathederal will be completely restored within five years.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by David Schweizer

[Athy]

Very interesting, David. I wonder why China in particular has a great need for oak.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

It is startling that France, despite its vast areas of forests, has no trees big enough for the job.

It may be changing - I don't know.

But - in the past the population of France has been very laissez faire about managing the environment, they have virtually no wildlife left (including birds) after shooting it into extinction, they even shoot migrating swallows - not much point in that.

 

Their fishermen 'pillage' the sea taking undersized fish with the head of France's National Fisheries Committee supporting the taking of undersize fish.

 

The French have decimated their historic woodlands as shown by their lack of Oaks to re-build Notre Dame.

 

There are some very nice French people, in fact some I would class as good friends from when I had a factory outside of Paris employing 200

 

France is a lovely country but spoiled by the occupants.

 

A couple of news reports : 

 

 

 

France gets record fine over fish

France is being penalised for endangering fish stocks The European Court of Justice has fined France 20m euros (£14m; $24m) and imposed an extra rolling penalty for flouting EU fishing rules. France will have to pay 57.8m euros every six months if it fails to comply. The fines are the biggest ones the court has levied against a member state to date, the court confirmed. The head of France's National Fisheries Committee (CNPMEM) reacted angrily to the fines, calling them "completely unacceptable pressure on France".   It is the first time the court has imposed such a "combination" fine on a member state.   Pierre-Georges Dachicourt of the CNPMEM told France Info radio that the court was unfairly singling the country out for criticism. "Tonnes upon tonnes of small fish are unloaded in Spain, Portugal. There is fishing over and above the quotas in Scotland, Britain and elsewhere, and you never hear anything about it. People always point the finger at France," he said. "We follow the letter of European rules," he insisted. The court press service told the BBC News website that no fines were currently envisaged for any other EU members apart from France for fishing violations.

 

Bird hunting in France

A crusade against migrant birds

Hunting of migrant birds, as also trapping, is still a national sport in France and, since the days of the French Revolution, is considered to be a citizen’s right. In no other EU state is hunting such a natural part of daily life - with fatal consequences for nature and the environment.

The hunting of waders - here a Ruff, in decline in Europe - is still widespread (© Marek Szczepanek/wikimedia commons)

 

 

Every year some 1.3 million French hunters, almost twice as many as in Italy, take to the fields and woods to hunt. It is hardly surprising that more birds are shot in France than in any other European state. According to government sources more than 25 million song birds and migrants (in Italy the figure is 17 million) are the victims every year of an extremely long hunting season, long lists of huntable species, and an often not very law-abiding hunting community. The main prey of the hunters is, in addition to Pheasant, ducks and partridges, above all song birds. Each year more than 5.5 million thrushes are shot, including more than 2 million Song Thrushes and a million Blackbirds, and far more than 600,000 Skylarks. These figures do not include the millions of thrushes and larks that are additionally legally killed in traps that are elsewhere banned by EU legislation.

[David Schweizer]

6 minutes ago, Athy said:

Very interesting, David. I wonder why China in particular has a great need for oak.

Apparently the Chineses love oak furniture and flooring, but a few years ago, their Goverment placed a ban the commercial harvesting of timber, which has meant they have to source it from elsewhere, and France has been willing to sell it to them.

[Athy]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

France is a lovely country but spoiled by the occupants.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion point of the day! I would love to join in, as a devout francophile, but we're off to the boat in a couple of minutes.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

Discussion point of the day! I would love to join in, as a devout francophile, but we're off to the boat in a couple of minutes.

 

Why would that stop you joining in?

 

Most of us in this thread are conducting discussions from our boats!

 

 

[bizzard]

Plenty of Meccano is available on Ebay to construct this spire. Frank Hornby would have loved the challenge. 

[carlt]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

Discussion point of the day! I would love to join in, as a devout francophile, but we're off to the boat in a couple of minutes.

Can't give you a greenie but one of the things I loved about living in France was the fantastic welcome offered.

 

Having spent 5 years living amongst them I would move back there in an instant (and fully intend to do so when the kids have finished school)

[bizzard]

3 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Have they not got TPO's on them? .......and if not, why not! I agree. Use rsj's.

TPO.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

12 minutes ago, carlt said:

Can't give you a greenie but one of the things I loved about living in France was the fantastic welcome offered.

 

Having spent 5 years living amongst them I would move back there in an instant (and fully intend to do so when the kids have finished school)

Did you live in the country or small town perhaps? A friend of mine lived in Paris, said the people weren't at all welcoming. Maybe that's big city syndrome? He also said that Parisians were particularly miserable.

[carlt]

12 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Did you live in the country or small town perhaps? A friend of mine lived in Paris, said the people weren't at all welcoming. Maybe that's big city syndrome? He also said that Parisians were particularly miserable.

 

26 Rue des Renaudes

17th Arrondissement Paris

 

Worked on the Rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré

8th Arrondissement

 

You don't get more Paris than that.

 

I think places we go are what we choose to make them...

 

Edited to add: The folk in Nice were a bit grumpy but I didn't meet many French folk there.

Edited April 19, 2019 by carlt

[bizzard]

We used to cycle around France quite a bit. The folk in towns were not very friendly, as in most towns anywhere I suppose, well in Carteret on the west coast anyway. But in rural parts  of the Cherbourg peninsular very friendly indeed, perhaps because we were on bikes. We asked for eggs and bacon one morning, raw eggs and raw bacon floating in olive oil were served up. Once  on the way back to the ferry at Cherbourg my bikes rear wheel bearings disintegrated and I had to carry it for about five miles, I nearly missed the boat.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

1 minute ago, carlt said:

 

26 Rue des Renaudes

17th Arrondissement Paris

 

Worked on the Rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré

8th Arrondissement

 

You don't get more Paris than that.

 

I think places we go are what we choose to make them...

Just goes to show, we shouldn't take the word of one person (or organisation) as being the truth of a matter. Or perhaps for the purpose of this thread; gospel. 

[Dr Bob]

31 minutes ago, bizzard said:

TPO.

No.

I meant the Tokyo philharmonic Orchestra

 

http://www.tpo.or.jp/en/

[carlt]

3 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

But do those 'modern' materials have consequences in terms of the production of raw materials (eg mining, quarrying etc?) I assume that in today's climate, a plastic spire would be unacceptable.

 

Courtesy of The Daily Mash:

 

America to gift France hideous new plastic church

17th April 2019

 

 

 

 

AMERICA has decided to revive its old friendship with France by giving it a garish plastic megachurch for the middle of its capital city. 

The US has remembered the lovely metal statue that France gave it for New York harbour and decided to return the favour with a huge church by the designers of Disney World.

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said: “The best thing is, because it’s plastic, we can prefabricate the whole thing off site. They’ll just wake up in the morning and it’ll be there.

 

“We’re thinking something like a fairytale castle but with big neon crosses all over it to show it’s a church, and of course the various sponsor’s logos.

“The spire will look just like a 300ft baguette – those dudes love baguettes – and the roof will be retractable, so it can host open-air church services and two NFL games per season.

“And just wait until they see the Hall of Animatronic Jesuses, all the way from baby Jesus through Teen Preacher Jesus to his final, climactic battle with the Romans on Golgotha Hill. It’s a real thrillride.”

President Emmanuel Macron said: “Wow. This is, as we French say, trés merde.”

[David Schweizer]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Why would that stop you joining in?

 

Most of us in this thread are conducting discussions from our boats!

 

 

Mike has about a two hour journey to his boat, I think we would prefer him to concentrate on driving rather than posting on his computer.

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Mike has about a two hour journey to his boat, I think we would prefer him to concentrate on driving rather than posting on his computer.

 

So you think Mike will resume posting in two hours? 

 

I predict not. I've an idea Mike only posts from the coal-fired PC on his desk, at home.  But we shall see!

 

 

 

 

[Machpoint005]

12 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

the coal-fired PC on his desk, at home

 

Is that worse than the clockwork laptop I use?