nbfiresprite Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 hour ago, carlt said: No...According to nbfiresprite it changed in 1905...101 years after his death. Napoleon died on 5th May 1821, concernant la séparation des Églises et de l'État) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 27 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said: Napoleon died on 5th May 1821, concernant la séparation des Églises et de l'État) Yes I was getting my dates mixed up (he became Emperor in 1804) Still a good while before the nationalisation of churches though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machpoint005 Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 17 hours ago, David Schweizer said: The spire is not Mediaeval, it was added in the mid 19th century, as was a lot of the interior decor. Perhaps that's why it didn't survive the fire, unlike most of the building? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said: Perhaps that's why it didn't survive the fire, unlike most of the building? Modern rubbish. Cathedral building just ain't what it used to be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machpoint005 Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said: I can't imagine any contractor being able to afford liability insurance to work on the roof of a building like Notre Dame. No, neither can I. It is to be presumed that the requirement wasn't in the contract either -- although knowing the way the Catholic Church awards contracts, they most probably conveniently ignored the issue. 1 minute ago, carlt said: Modern rubbish. Cathedral building just ain't what it used to be. Coventry is pretty good though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said: Perhaps that's why it didn't survive the fire, unlike most of the building? It din't survive the fire because it was made of wood, not because it was 700 years younger than the stone bits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: It din't survive the fire because it was made of wood, not because it was 700 years younger than the stone bits. Goddamn wooden spires! Should have been steel or, even better, riveted iron. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: It din't survive the fire because it was made of wood, not because it was 700 years younger than the stone bits. I was not commenting upon the durability of the spire, but that it was only 170 years old and not Medieval, as some reporters have suggested. Mind you much of the BBC reporting about the age of the Cathedral is also misleading, with statements like "built in the 11th Century", That is not my understanding, as far as I am aware, it was started in the mid 12th century and not really completed until the mid 13th Century, with a significant amount of later additions and alterations, much of which took place in the 19th Century. Edited April 18, 2019 by David Schweizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbfiresprite Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 50 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said: No, neither can I. It is to be presumed that the requirement wasn't in the contract either -- although knowing the way the Catholic Church awards contracts, they most probably conveniently ignored the issue. Contract was awarded by the French state, Lowest bid, best bribes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain_S Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 20 hours ago, Mike Todd said: And just think how much worse it would have been if Trump had been in charge! (snip) Would the floor have been swept? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 29 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said: Contract was awarded by the French state, Lowest bid, best bribes Just like UK's Compulsory Competitive Tendering then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said: It din't survive the fire because it was made of wood, not because it was 700 years younger than the stone bits. As mill and warehouse building developed in the mid-19th century, destructive tests were made to compare buildings framed wood with those of cast-iron. The former were shown to be superior when it came to surviving fire damage, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Todd Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 hours ago, carlt said: Goddamn wooden spires! Should have been steel or, even better, riveted iron. Would the technology of the day been able to make it? I would have thought it too cumbersome and weighty . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mike Todd said: Would the technology of the day been able to make it? I would have thought it too cumbersome and weighty . . . Perhaps you're right considering the French with their wishy-washy engineering but if they'd given the job to Hartland & Wolff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mike Todd said: Would the technology of the day been able to make it? I would have thought it too cumbersome and weighty . . . When was the (riveted iron) Eiffel Tower built? Surely before the Notre Dame spire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 Just now, Mike the Boilerman said: When was the (riveted iron) Eiffel Tower built? Surely before the Notre Dame spire. No...1889 for the Bastille Centenary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 minute ago, carlt said: No...1889 for the Bastille Centenary. Same century though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Todd Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said: When was the (riveted iron) Eiffel Tower built? Surely before the Notre Dame spire. But the slenderness ratios are far from the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 The Duke of Rutland has offered to donate mature oak trees grown on his estate at Belvoir Castle in Leicestershire to help restore Notre Dame. The 850-year-old cathedral in central Paris lost its spire and much of the ornate timber roof during Monday's devastating blaze. French cultural heritage expert Bertrand de Feydeau said France no longer has trees on its territory big enough to replace Notre Dame's ancient wooden beams, which were cut in the 13th century from primal forests. But the Duke of Rutland and a number of other owners of historic British estates have now offered to provide some of the oaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 It is startling that France, despite its vast areas of forests, has no trees big enough for the job. But surely if these oak trees are cut tomorrow, the wood won't be ready for use until much later? I don't know how long oak takes to season properly. But it's a most admirable gesture. I assume Feydeau is the name of the Duke's dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, Athy said: It is startling that France, despite its vast areas of forests, has no trees big enough for the job. But surely if these oak trees are cut tomorrow, the wood won't be ready for use until much later? I don't know how long oak takes to season properly. But it's a most admirable gesture. I assume Feydeau is the name of the Duke's dog. I believe that oak is worked 'green' as its too hard when fully seasoned. Should try building with greenheart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 13 minutes ago, Athy said: It is startling that France, despite its vast areas of forests, has no trees big enough for the job. But surely if these oak trees are cut tomorrow, the wood won't be ready for use until much later? I don't know how long oak takes to season properly. But it's a most admirable gesture. I assume Feydeau is the name of the Duke's dog. I disagree with this (the underlined bit). Why cut down ancient oak trees when in reality modern materials would suffice. Grrrrrr.... Maybe I should join the climate protesters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, StationMaster said: I disagree with this (the underlined bit). Why cut down ancient oak trees when in reality modern materials would suffice. Grrrrrr.... Maybe I should join the climate protesters... Couple of RSJs, Guv? They'll 'old it up. I believe that the reason for the planting of oak trees in the days of olden was so that they could eventually be harvested and used in the construction of ships and buildings. Edited April 19, 2019 by Athy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, Athy said: Couple of RSJs, Guv? They'll 'old it up. And why not!... It's either a tourist attraction or a place of worship, if a place of worship why does it have to look pretty (Methodist upbringing coming out now...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, StationMaster said: And why not!... It's either a tourist attraction or a place of worship, if a place of worship why does it have to look pretty (Methodist upbringing coming out now...). I too was brought up "chapel" (Northern expression for "non-conformist") but that doesn't mean that I want to see UPVC replacement window frames in Notre Dame. Edited April 19, 2019 by Athy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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