Notre Dame on Fire

[carlt]

Yeah...and what about that virtue signalling Samaritan geezer?...

[Machpoint005]

...or that apostle Thomas who was (allegedly) the only one in the Upper Room to show any sense?

[The Welsh Cruiser]

10 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

No, you are not alone. That's exactly where I came into this controversy this morning.

 

If he took no more than, say, 20 times the pay of his lowest-paid full-time employee it would probably be acceptable. Then if he wanted to draw megaeuros out of the company he would first have to give all the clerks, cleaners and packaging workers a pay rise. 

I see. Not 5 times then? I guess not, you probably wouldn't want to be a turkey voting for Christmas.

 

What staggers me about someone like yourself is how the conscience you openly portray allows you to work at all in this capitalist environment. It's almost beyond belief that someone with such an outlook could comfortably work hard at his education, gain a so called professional qualification and go on to earn a salary that gives him or herself, and their family, a comfortable lifestyle, while others around them struggle to make ends meet.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

But the former just seems to give biblical permission for money making more money.

Personally I have no idea (I prefer the parable of the conversion of the 10 virgins)

 

But a google search tends to show the commonly held meaning is investing and getting a commercial return (making money)

 

In both Matthew and Luke, a master puts his servants in charge of his goods while he is away on a trip. Upon his return, the master assesses the stewardship of his servants. He evaluates them according to how faithful each was in making wise investments of his goods to obtain a profit. It is clear that the master sought some profit from the servants' oversight. A gain indicated faithfulness on the part of the servants. The master rewards his servants according to how each has handled his stewardship. He judges two servants as having been "faithful" and gives them a positive reward. To the single unfaithful servant, who "played it safe", a negative compensation is given.

[Machpoint005]

1 minute ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

gain a so called professional qualification

 

There is nothing "so-called" about my professional qualification.

3 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Not 5 times then?

No, "say, 20 times". If I had meant "say 5" I would have written "say 5". The number is of far less importance than the general principle. But you knew that all along.  

[Athy]

22 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Paying taxes isn't giving to the state -- it's a civic duty.

Yes. We have a civic duty to give money to the state.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

25 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

There is nothing "so-called" about my professional qualification.

No, "say, 20 times". If I had meant "say 5" I would have written "say 5". The number is of far less importance than the general principle. But you knew that all along.  

I don't accept the class distinction that's implied when have have 'professionals' and 'non-professionals'. That's because I don't accept the class system, I consider each person to have equal worth. That's why I use the term so called professionals, and will continue to do so. It's not a slight against your qualification, I'm sure you worked very hard to achieve it. 

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

Yes. We have a civic duty to give money to the state.

We are only giving it to 'the state' in its role as an intermediary. The basic principle is that we are giving it to the person next door, or in another city/town/village - who we do not know - who is in a need that can be met by our money. It is oft said that the mark of a civilized society is how it looks after those who cannot support themselves, for whatever reason and whatever their condition. Such a view challenges the 'charity begins at home' brigade, especially those who also think it ends there as well.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

25 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

We are only giving it to 'the state' in its role as an intermediary. The basic principle is that we are giving it to the person next door, or in another city/town/village - who we do not know - who is in a need that can be met by our money. It is oft said that the mark of a civilized society is how it looks after those who cannot support themselves, for whatever reason and whatever their condition. Such a view challenges the 'charity begins at home' brigade, especially those who also think it ends there as well.

That's just one view of what constitutes a civilised society. It is a view, not a fact. Another view might be to look at how society treats the elderly. Whether it's civilised to increase pensions, but leave the elderly lonely and on their own, or pack them off into nursing homes because the kids are too busy making money elsewhere. Another view; would a civilised society allow itself to become over populated to the point where it impinges on the quality of people's lives, and sets a path towards the destruction of the planet.

 

Other views are available as well.

[mrsmelly]

The head frog has just been on telly stating it will be rebuilt. Thats good news.

[roland elsdon]

Im sure the british govt will slap in a bung in order to appear unified with europe.

 

personaly  i think given the rc has been scalping visitors for entry (to the tower) for years , and is richer than some countries, they should pay for their own fantasy tourist attraction to be rebuilt.

however im sure the gulible will be fleeced again in the hope of avoiding the catholic view of heaven.

 

2 months  guaranteed exemption from purgatory.. bargain $1000 to roof fund.

 

right seat next to lower order saint $100000

They have always had a confused morality.

 

Sorry catholic view of heaven

Should have read view of hell

[system 4-50]

I have met people who worked extremely hard, well in excess of what would have been deemed adequate, despite knowing their efforts would not be proportionately rewarded.  Not everybody needs to be bribed to achieve remarkable results.

[frangar]

Can I just ask what this topic has to do with general boating or can we post anything anywhere now?? 

[carlt]

35 minutes ago, frangar said:

Can I just ask what this topic has to do with general boating or can we post anything anywhere now?? 

 

You may be one of the few who actually know where things are posted.

 

I was under the impression that most folk just used the one big topic "View New Content"

[frangar]

4 minutes ago, carlt said:

 

You may be one of the few who actually know where things are posted.

 

I was under the impression that most folk just used the one big topic "View New Content"

I prefer to look at the boards in context...if used properly you can avoid pointless threads like this one which is of no boating relevance. 

[carlt]

12 minutes ago, frangar said:

I prefer to look at the boards in context...if used properly you can avoid pointless threads like this one which is of no boating relevance. 

Not too hard to avoid...if you can resist commenting.

 

Just click out and try to forget you were ever here.

[Athy]

1 hour ago, carlt said:

 

You may be one of the few who actually know where things are posted.

 

I was under the impression that most folk just used the one big topic "View New Content"

This folk does, yes. But other people may approach the forums differently.

2 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I have met people who worked extremely hard, well in excess of what would have been deemed adequate, despite knowing their efforts would not be proportionately rewarded.  Not everybody needs to be bribed to achieve remarkable results.

I don't think that anyone has suggested bribery. What do you mean?

[frahkn]

7 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

I don't accept the class distinction that's implied when have have 'professionals' and 'non-professionals'. That's because I don't accept the class system, I consider each person to have equal worth. That's why I use the term so called professionals, and will continue to do so. It's not a slight against your qualification, I'm sure you worked very hard to achieve it. 

 

I really wonder if you do. If you honestly do believe this, fair enough but you must be defining "worth" quite strangely.

 

I think that the concept of "class" if not defined in relation to ownership of the means of production, is a very confusing term. However defined, your acceptance of the term (or mine if it comes to it) is irrelevant in the scheme of things.

 

Course I may be wrong - have you considered this possibility in your own case?

[Dr Bob]

8 hours ago, Athy said:

This folk does, yes. But other people may approach the forums differently.

Yep, me too. I just use vnc.

 

[Athy]

I find that feature useful if I wish to, er, view new content.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

7 hours ago, frahkn said:

 

I really wonder if you do. If you honestly do believe this, fair enough but you must be defining "worth" quite strangely.

 

I think that the concept of "class" if not defined in relation to ownership of the means of production, is a very confusing term. However defined, your acceptance of the term (or mine if it comes to it) is irrelevant in the scheme of things.

 

Course I may be wrong - have you considered this possibility in your own case?

Class can be a confusing term and it's a highly complex thing to discuss. Perceptions of class can be gained through many things. Family history, accent, wealth, job choice and title, choice of dress and even how you have your hair cut spring to mind. There's a perception that the notion of stratifying folk on the basis of class is a diminishing one, due to more social mobility and 'self made' wealthy people. 'Self made', there's a term that suggests the class system is alive and kicking, if ever there were one. I don't agree that it's diminishing though. A whole set of people have been propelled into the lowest class by the invention and widespread use of words such as 'chav', and 'scroat'. I myself was told that I got a particular job "because I came from good stock" but if my local accent had been any stronger, they would have chosen someone else. There's widespread use of grand sounding job titles used to lure people in to poor jobs with equally poor salaries. No more sales assistants, we now have 'key account customer sales executives' and such like. Mum is proud, she thinks the folk in the posh houses in the next street won't consider her son a chav any more, now he's an executive. I've even seen a bunch of 4 accountants, each doing the same job, titled 'accounting president'.

 

Ultimately this system is ingrained in British culture, and is unlikely to change. There's little I can do personally, given that I don't like the system, other than to avoid using language myself that emanates from class divide thinking. 

        

[Athy]

8 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

. There's a perception that the notion of stratifying folk on the basis of class is a diminishing one, due to more social mobility

        

It is, at least on the surface, an accurate one. When I was a boy some years ago, you could always tell a working class person from a professional person by their appearance. Nowadays they look more or less the same.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

26 minutes ago, Athy said:

It is, at least on the surface, an accurate one. When I was a boy some years ago, you could always tell a working class person from a professional person by their appearance. Nowadays they look more or less the same.

I agree, many of the factors that lead to class stratification are more subtle nowadays. 

[carlt]

28 minutes ago, Athy said:

 Nowadays they look more or less the same.

 

Yes it is most annoying. 

I say we should ban hipsters from wearing flat caps to avoid confusion. 

[Athy]

6 minutes ago, carlt said:

 

Yes it is most annoying. 

I say we should ban hipsters from wearing flat caps to avoid confusion. 

Bete saucisse, as the French do not say.