New boats launched Vs new moorings created?

[Athy]

13 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

?SPELLING?

Thank you for point my typo out. Now corrected.

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

As are car-parks, housing developments (with car parking space) etc.

 

BUT the Roads authority build more roads to accommodate the increases in numbers - C&RT do not.

Athy - why are you editing my post ?

That is extremely bad form.

[Athy]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Athy - why are you editing my post ?

That is extremely bad form.

?

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Edited 5 minutes ago by Athy

I don't consider a 'smiley' a suitable answer.

My post #23 states "edited by Athy"

 

I posted nothing against the rules and consider that very bad manners.

 

Is this a MOD gone rogue again ?

[Tumshie]

9 minutes ago, Athy said:

?

Actually it's not funny at all - unless you are doing something for the forum in the formal capacity of a moderator then using your moderator abilities is not acceptable. 

 

I am in no way criticising a moderating decision, I am criticising a person misusing moderator abilities he has access to. 

[WotEver]

49 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I don't consider a 'smiley' a suitable answer.

My post #23 states "edited by Athy"

 

I posted nothing against the rules and consider that very bad manners.

 

Is this a MOD gone rogue again ?

He edited his quote, which had contained a typo. 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

He edited his quote, which had contained a typo. 

 

Eh?  Yes Athy edited his own post, but also edited Alan's post it appears. This is what is creating the stir of objection.

 

Oh, are you saying Athy edited Alan's quotation of the Athy post? 

 

This is still bad form. Quoting posts is a well known and accepted way of capturing posts in case a poster changes what he wrote. 

[Dave123]

2 hours ago, Athy said:

You're right in suggesting that canal boats are not often scrapped (though I have seen it happen); but what you may have missed out of your reasoning is the number of new off-line moorings: in recent years marinas have been opening at a rate of knots, and they tend to be big ones (Bosworth, Cropredy and Dunchurch spring to mind). Given that, as is often stated in these pages, many boats which take marina moorings don't often venture out on to the system, perhaps there are more boats than hitherto but not so many of them get in the way - whoops, I mean cruise frequently. So it's carriage sidings rather than the main lines which are filling up.

This is what I think too. There seems no lack of space in marinas or lack of new marinas, judging from the adverts in magazines etc and what I've seen from passing marinas. What is the evidence the canals are full? Apart from increasing boat numbers? Even these last 2 week's on the South Oxford I haven't seen a queue of more than 1 boat and all week in cropredy there were plenty of visitor moorings free.

Whilst there might be a hypothetical number at which the canals are 'full' I wpuld guess we are a long long way from that. What would that even look like? Actual gridlock with boats having to float overnight as every inch of bank was moored to?? All the evidence I have seen from cruising the south east these last 2 years and the north west/midlands for 8 before that is that actual busy-ness at locks/popular vms etc is weather dependent and only at peak holidays as you'd expect...but certainly doesnt seem to be worse over the years.

 

I suspect the majority of new boats stay in marinas as floating cottages (which is fine) and so have little to no impact on the canals. The moment boat numbers start to decline is when we should be worried! As without new interest and enthusiasm and a thriving community the canals will die.

[Chris Williams]

55 minutes ago, Athy said:

That is extremely bad form.

Thames expression from way back - " Shocking bad form to stand up in a boat".

Also heard to speeding motor boat - "Launch - you Bastard"

[Athy]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I don't consider a 'smiley' a suitable answer.

My post #23 states "edited by Athy"

 

I posted nothing against the rules and consider that very bad manners.

 

Is this a MOD gone rogue again ?

Perhaps you would care to write other people's answers for them, then they would always be suitable.

After Tumshie kindly pointed out a mistake which I had made, I of course corrected it.

Did you actually spot what it was?

Is this a member gone rogue again?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

Perhaps you would care to write other people's answers for them, then they would always be suitable.

After Tumshie kindly pointed out a mistake which I had made, I of course corrected it.

Did you actually spot what it was?

Is this a member gone rogue again?

I'm not sure you have any comprehension of the courtesies that are the norm in forum postings.

 

Lets leave it at that and let the thread follow its raison d'etre.

[Athy]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'm not sure you have any comprehension of the courtesies that are the norm in forum postings.

 

e.

It is possible that one of us does not.

I assume that, from now on, you will no longer edit your own words because it would be discourteous?

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Athy said:

It is possible that one of us does not.

But as I have the powers of a Mod, I can do so at any time - even when my post has been quoted by another - fortunately you lesser mortals do not have this power so Ya-Bo.

Post are often quoted so that the poster cannot weasel out and say "I never said that" - but obviously some are above the 'law'.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Athy]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That's essentially it - though I would substitute "ability" for power", and of course I would not use the condescending tone and words which you have done, as I would not find them polite or appropriate.

You have not actually answered my question yet: did you spot what I had altered? 

[Ex Brummie]

After a short jaunt this weekend, I am thoroughly confused. Passing through Brewood to get to Wheaton Aston, I almost felt I should stop as there were only 3 boats in the space that normally has 15, (both sides of bridge). Upon reaching Wheaton Aston, there was only 1 boat above the lock, and 2 boats below, before the bridge. The water points and the sanitary station were empty. The VM's after the bridge were empty, which was probably why Turner's was closed on Saturday PM. Maybe the traffic did not appear heavy, as fhere were very few hire boats out at Autherley or Brewood; unusual for school holidays.

[Athy]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Post are often quoted so that the poster cannot weasel out and say "I never said that" - but obviously some are above the 'law'.

Of course they are, and to remind readers gf what the poster is talking about. To quote words, of course, does not make them yours. I could quote "I wandered lonely as a cloud", but that wouldn't mean that I was Wordsworth.

Of which laws are you thinking, , and who might these "some" be? I would be interested to know.

 

[Dave123]

51 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

After a short jaunt this weekend, I am thoroughly confused. Passing through Brewood to get to Wheaton Aston, I almost felt I should stop as there were only 3 boats in the space that normally has 15, (both sides of bridge). Upon reaching Wheaton Aston, there was only 1 boat above the lock, and 2 boats below, before the bridge. The water points and the sanitary station were empty. The VM's after the bridge were empty, which was probably why Turner's was closed on Saturday PM. Maybe the traffic did not appear heavy, as fhere were very few hire boats out at Autherley or Brewood; unusual for school holidays.

Exactly the same situation this week/weekend here in Cropredy/Claydon. I would be genuinely interested if others have similar or opposing anecdotal evidence about how busy the water ways really are rather than just general boat numbers? I'd wager it is only Kings cross/Camden that are actually overcrowded this weekend!?

[Athy]

1 minute ago, Dave123 said:

Exactly the same situation this week/weekend here in Cropredy/Claydon. I would be genuinely interested if others have similar or opposing anecdotal evidence about how busy the water ways really are rather than just general boat numbers? I'd wager it is only Kings cross/Camden that are actually overcrowded this weekend!?

We have noticed this. Many of them don't come out until Easter and, Easter being late this year, they aren't out yet. (I include the crew of Trojan amongst their number as, this year, circumstances have prevented us from visiting our boat. Guess what, we'll be down there on Easter weekend!)

[Boater Sam]

1 hour ago, Ex Brummie said:

After a short jaunt this weekend, I am thoroughly confused. Passing through Brewood to get to Wheaton Aston, I almost felt I should stop as there were only 3 boats in the space that normally has 15, (both sides of bridge). Upon reaching Wheaton Aston, there was only 1 boat above the lock, and 2 boats below, before the bridge. The water points and the sanitary station were empty. The VM's after the bridge were empty, which was probably why Turner's was closed on Saturday PM. Maybe the traffic did not appear heavy, as fhere were very few hire boats out at Autherley or Brewood; unusual for school holidays.

Turners always close at 2pm I remember on Saturdays. At least you have plenty of room on nice moorings to wait for them to open on Monday morning.

[Dave123]

I'm still convinced the canals are far from overcrowded! Will be interesting to see if things get busier as the year goes on as heading through Foxton which is supposed to be another of the busiest spots on the canals. Only shared about half the locks all of last June and July on the K&A it was so quiet...and again this is one of the canals people and hearsay would have you thinking was overflowing with boats to the point of being unnavigable/unmoorable!

Edited April 14, 2019 by Dave123

[Athy]

6 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Turners always close at 2pm I remember on Saturdays. At least you have plenty of room on nice moorings to wait for them to open on Monday morning.

This is also a benefit of Fenny Marina's fairly short opening hours - I think they close at four, so if you need diesel you can moor at the wharf until the next morning.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Athy

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Perhaps there’re more boats taken out of the water and not going back in, rather than new boats going in?

I met someone making a nice earner removing abandoned boats and cutting them up for scrap. 

 

 

[cuthound]

4 hours ago, Dave123 said:

This is what I think too. There seems no lack of space in marinas or lack of new marinas, judging from the adverts in magazines etc and what I've seen from passing marinas. What is the evidence the canals are full? Apart from increasing boat numbers? Even these last 2 week's on the South Oxford I haven't seen a queue of more than 1 boat and all week in cropredy there were plenty of visitor moorings free.

Whilst there might be a hypothetical number at which the canals are 'full' I wpuld guess we are a long long way from that. What would that even look like? Actual gridlock with boats having to float overnight as every inch of bank was moored to?? All the evidence I have seen from cruising the south east these last 2 years and the north west/midlands for 8 before that is that actual busy-ness at locks/popular vms etc is weather dependent and only at peak holidays as you'd expect...but certainly doesnt seem to be worse over the years.

 

I suspect the majority of new boats stay in marinas as floating cottages (which is fine) and so have little to no impact on the canals. The moment boat numbers start to decline is when we should be worried! As without new interest and enthusiasm and a thriving community the canals will die.

 

5 years ago I moved to a canalside house on the popular Warwickshire Ring.

 

Judging by the numbers of boats passing our house, I would estimate that boat movements are up perhaps 10-15% over the 5 years.

 

However when out cruising in the boat (which I do at least once a month, more in the summer) I can't say that I notice the extra boats, except at popular mooring sites and very occasional queues at specific pinch point locks.

[peterboat]

9 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

ISTR Matty saying Collingwood only build widebeams now and launch two a week. They are prolly the biggest builder of canal boats although I bet Aqualine are snapping at their heels. 

 

I'd guess Colecraft launch one every couple weeks and same for Jonathan Wilson. Plus probably twenty tiny builders who launch three of four a year. 

 

That adds up to about 300 new boats launched a year, most of them wide beams.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That would be because they have no powers to limit the number of licences. Dunno why they didn't just tell you this. 

 

Hubris probably.

 

And this is the reason for my concern. There is no cap on how many boats the public can put in the canal system. Eventually it will get overcrowded and only then with there be any political will to do anything about it, by which time the problem will take 50 years to fix.

Johnathon has two places on the go I would say Sheffield is at one every two to three weeks Stoke is supposed to be bigger with more guys building so know idea how many they are knocking out

[magpie patrick]

18 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I often try to estimate the rate at which the canals are filling up Vs the rate at which new moorings are being created.

 

I reckon there are perhaps thee or four new narrow boats being launched onto CRT waters every week, and maybe ten wide beams, but this is total guesswork. Does anyone have any stats?

 

On the moorings side of things, people (including me) worry the canals are just being filled up indiscriminately with more and more boats. But if new off line moorings are being created to accommodate them, then maybe it doesn't matter that much. How many new moorings are being brought on line each year? Harder to estimate.

 

And old narrow boats are so rarely scrapped I don't think they need to be accounted for.

 

 

I haven't had time to read the whole thread so apologies if I repeat what others have said but

 

In 20 years (approx 1995-2015) the number of licensed boats went from around 25000 to 35000. 

 

About half way through this period BW realised the had a problem and actively promoted new marinas - on a good site a boat mooring pond makes money - the key is a level site at canal level. I was slightly involved in the finance of one marina which cost 8k a berth to develop and the annual charge before VAT was an average of 2k - even with operating costs added this was a good deal for the banks.

 

Old boats never die - its almost impossible to get rid of one without either abandoning it or paying someone to take it away. 

 

Marinas aren't always in the same place as the demand for moorings. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by magpie patrick